Ban our songs

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Protect our traditions of 'singing the famine song' :lol: - its not a tradition, its a new(ish) timmmy wind up and we have now been asked not to sing it and it is now, like it or not, legally racist, and mass singing of it will, rightly or wrongly, get the club into trouble.

There is now point in defending any 'tradition' who's time is up! TBB is a tradition but its time is up, TFIO was never a tradition, but its time is, also, up! Move on!

[Gaffbear 4,101]

Just part of an essay i found this morning.......

i'll post it all on a new thread if anyone wants me to but it's a loooong read

Rangers' popularity was spreading away from their immediate catchment area within years of

them being founded and especially after their move to the Ibrox / Kinning Park area in 1876.

Football specials were run to Rangers games in Edinburgh, for example, in the 1890s and in

the early years of the last Century, football specials were run to Rangers home games from

other areas of Glasgow and Lanarkshire. It is this development that we would contend shows

that Rangers had become the favourites of a sizeable number of Protestants who had a

number of other Clubs to choose from. In 1908, for example, football specials to Rangers

games were advertised to leave from Bridgeton and Rutherglen stations. Both of these areas

have strong links to Protestant history – Rutherglen with its strong Covenanting heritage and

Bridgeton a place with stong links to Ulster and a place where large numbers of Protestant

textile workers from Scotland's south west settled - and while it is impossible to know the

religion of those who travelled on the trains to Rangers the fact that there was enough interest

in Rangers in areas where the population was overwhelmingly Protestant to make special

trains viable means it is not out of the realms of reality to suggest that Rangers were seen as

the team for the Protestants at the turn of the century.

With that being our argument, it is appropriate to look at the rivalry with Celtic in that context.

Celtic had links with Irish Republicanism from inception with Michael Davitt, a prominent

republican, planting the kick-off spot at Parkhead. As has been documented, Irish

Republicanism and support for Home Rule had produced violence in Scotland as far back as

the 1890s and with Celtic seen as the Irish Club it was natural that they would invoke hostility

among their Protestant opponents. It is contended here that Rangers and Celtic, while being

seen as the Clubs of Protestants and Catholics respectively in the early days, did not have

the enmity we know today until after World War One and, furthermore, is because of Celtic's

links with Irish militancy.

As has been argued, Rangers' identity as the Protestant Club goes back further than the

1920s; however it is no coincidence that the violence and deep divide between the supporters

two Clubs has its roots in this era given Celtic's identity and the hostility to the Irish

involvement – perceived or otherwise – in World War One. Therefore, it is far from surprising

that the song that had the chattering classes in Scotland up in arms recently has its roots in

this period and at Ibrox, home of the team adopted by Scottish Protestants who had pride in

King and Country. The song, it is argued here, was not about anti-Catholicism but about anti-

Fenianism, a concept that developed due to a deep resentment of the violent activities carried

out by followers of that philosophy and bringing terror to the streets, towns and cities of

Scotland.

That, therefore, is an argument that covers the background to the song of the Rangers

supporters which was banned recently. As has been contended in this essay, its roots are not

in anti-Catholicism but are in opposition to an alien menace that was attempting to subvert

Scottish society. Celtic through the years have maintained their links with this philosophy, with

Celtic fans openly engaging in support for the murderous actions of the IRA from the 1920s

down through the remaining decades of the twentieth Century and right through the Troubles

from the 1970s to the 1990s. It should be no surprise to anybody that the song The Billy Boys

was the anthem of the Rangers support as it expressed opposition to the groups carrying out

these deeds. In the past 20 years, Rangers have had more Catholics playing for them than at

any other time in their history, some of them like Jorg Albertz and Neil McCann proving

themselves to be favourites among large sections of the Rangers support. The argument that

the Rangers fans were expressing a wish to see everybody of that religion dead by means of

a song is as ludicrous as it is false. However, given we live in an age of immaturity in Scotland

in 2009 then reasoned debate on what the song actually meant and how it came to exist is

stifled as it does not sit well with those who feel comfortable among those who know and

celebrate what the song opposes. This article seeks to redress the balance and give a fairer

hearing to the founders of Rangers, the early Rangers supporters and their modern-day

counterparts and their identity, culture and beliefs than has been afforded them in recent

times.

[Leiper 0]

Is singing TFIO embracing our history?

[Gaffbear 4,101]

Is singing TFIO embracing our history?

It's about the Billy boys not the Famine is over why don't you go homw

[Leiper 0]

Is singing TFIO embracing our history?

It's about the Billy boys not the Famine is over why don't you go homw

Perhaps the OP could have made that clearer. Especially after TFIO being ruled racist very recently.

There are still plenty of songs to sing which celebrate our history and traditions. Derry Walls, Sash, Rule Britania, GSTQ, Follow Follow etc

The whole "Bring back TBB" is getting annoying. As much as I loved that song, it has been banned by courts and our club. We won't get it back anytime soon although I imagine we will be singing it 10 years from now.

Also, to the original poster...What are you doing exactly to "fight" for our traditions and history? Battering your keyboard? Is that it?

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Just part of an essay i found this morning.......

i'll post it all on a new thread if anyone wants me to but it's a loooong read

Rangers' popularity was spreading away from their immediate catchment area within years of

them being founded and especially after their move to the Ibrox / Kinning Park area in 1876.

Football specials were run to Rangers games in Edinburgh, for example, in the 1890s and in

the early years of the last Century, football specials were run to Rangers home games from

other areas of Glasgow and Lanarkshire. It is this development that we would contend shows

that Rangers had become the favourites of a sizeable number of Protestants who had a

number of other Clubs to choose from. In 1908, for example, football specials to Rangers

games were advertised to leave from Bridgeton and Rutherglen stations. Both of these areas

have strong links to Protestant history – Rutherglen with its strong Covenanting heritage and

Bridgeton a place with stong links to Ulster and a place where large numbers of Protestant

textile workers from Scotland's south west settled - and while it is impossible to know the

religion of those who travelled on the trains to Rangers the fact that there was enough interest

in Rangers in areas where the population was overwhelmingly Protestant to make special

trains viable means it is not out of the realms of reality to suggest that Rangers were seen as

the team for the Protestants at the turn of the century.

With that being our argument, it is appropriate to look at the rivalry with Celtic in that context.

Celtic had links with Irish Republicanism from inception with Michael Davitt, a prominent

republican, planting the kick-off spot at Parkhead. As has been documented, Irish

Republicanism and support for Home Rule had produced violence in Scotland as far back as

the 1890s and with Celtic seen as the Irish Club it was natural that they would invoke hostility

among their Protestant opponents. It is contended here that Rangers and Celtic, while being

seen as the Clubs of Protestants and Catholics respectively in the early days, did not have

the enmity we know today until after World War One and, furthermore, is because of Celtic's

links with Irish militancy.

As has been argued, Rangers' identity as the Protestant Club goes back further than the

1920s; however it is no coincidence that the violence and deep divide between the supporters

two Clubs has its roots in this era given Celtic's identity and the hostility to the Irish

involvement – perceived or otherwise – in World War One. Therefore, it is far from surprising

that the song that had the chattering classes in Scotland up in arms recently has its roots in

this period and at Ibrox, home of the team adopted by Scottish Protestants who had pride in

King and Country. The song, it is argued here, was not about anti-Catholicism but about anti-

Fenianism, a concept that developed due to a deep resentment of the violent activities carried

out by followers of that philosophy and bringing terror to the streets, towns and cities of

Scotland.

That, therefore, is an argument that covers the background to the song of the Rangers

supporters which was banned recently. As has been contended in this essay, its roots are not

in anti-Catholicism but are in opposition to an alien menace that was attempting to subvert

Scottish society. Celtic through the years have maintained their links with this philosophy, with

Celtic fans openly engaging in support for the murderous actions of the IRA from the 1920s

down through the remaining decades of the twentieth Century and right through the Troubles

from the 1970s to the 1990s. It should be no surprise to anybody that the song The Billy Boys

was the anthem of the Rangers support as it expressed opposition to the groups carrying out

these deeds. In the past 20 years, Rangers have had more Catholics playing for them than at

any other time in their history, some of them like Jorg Albertz and Neil McCann proving

themselves to be favourites among large sections of the Rangers support. The argument that

the Rangers fans were expressing a wish to see everybody of that religion dead by means of

a song is as ludicrous as it is false. However, given we live in an age of immaturity in Scotland

in 2009 then reasoned debate on what the song actually meant and how it came to exist is

stifled as it does not sit well with those who feel comfortable among those who know and

celebrate what the song opposes. This article seeks to redress the balance and give a fairer

hearing to the founders of Rangers, the early Rangers supporters and their modern-day

counterparts and their identity, culture and beliefs than has been afforded them in recent

times.

Gaff, was that written by FF's Ayrshire Billy Boy by any chance?

[Gaffbear 4,101]

Is singing TFIO embracing our history?

It's about the Billy boys not the Famine is over why don't you go homw

Perhaps the OP could have made that clearer. Especially after TFIO being ruled racist very recently.

There are still plenty of songs to sing which celebrate our history and traditions. Derry Walls, Sash, Rule Britania, GSTQ, Follow Follow etc

The whole "Bring back TBB" is getting annoying. As much as I loved that song, it has been banned by courts and our club. We won't get it back anytime soon although I imagine we will be singing it 10 years from now.

Also, to the original poster...What are you doing exactly to "fight" for our traditions and history? Battering your keyboard? Is that it?

What i'll do is post the original full essay which will make our traditions and The Billy boys a bit clearer......i found it this mornin so may as well post.

If it annoys people then they don't need to fuckin read it.

[Gaffbear 4,101]

Just part of an essay i found this morning.......

i'll post it all on a new thread if anyone wants me to but it's a loooong read

Rangers' popularity was spreading away from their immediate catchment area within years of

them being founded and especially after their move to the Ibrox / Kinning Park area in 1876.

Football specials were run to Rangers games in Edinburgh, for example, in the 1890s and in

the early years of the last Century, football specials were run to Rangers home games from

other areas of Glasgow and Lanarkshire. It is this development that we would contend shows

that Rangers had become the favourites of a sizeable number of Protestants who had a

number of other Clubs to choose from. In 1908, for example, football specials to Rangers

games were advertised to leave from Bridgeton and Rutherglen stations. Both of these areas

have strong links to Protestant history – Rutherglen with its strong Covenanting heritage and

Bridgeton a place with stong links to Ulster and a place where large numbers of Protestant

textile workers from Scotland's south west settled - and while it is impossible to know the

religion of those who travelled on the trains to Rangers the fact that there was enough interest

in Rangers in areas where the population was overwhelmingly Protestant to make special

trains viable means it is not out of the realms of reality to suggest that Rangers were seen as

the team for the Protestants at the turn of the century.

With that being our argument, it is appropriate to look at the rivalry with Celtic in that context.

Celtic had links with Irish Republicanism from inception with Michael Davitt, a prominent

republican, planting the kick-off spot at Parkhead. As has been documented, Irish

Republicanism and support for Home Rule had produced violence in Scotland as far back as

the 1890s and with Celtic seen as the Irish Club it was natural that they would invoke hostility

among their Protestant opponents. It is contended here that Rangers and Celtic, while being

seen as the Clubs of Protestants and Catholics respectively in the early days, did not have

the enmity we know today until after World War One and, furthermore, is because of Celtic's

links with Irish militancy.

As has been argued, Rangers' identity as the Protestant Club goes back further than the

1920s; however it is no coincidence that the violence and deep divide between the supporters

two Clubs has its roots in this era given Celtic's identity and the hostility to the Irish

involvement – perceived or otherwise – in World War One. Therefore, it is far from surprising

that the song that had the chattering classes in Scotland up in arms recently has its roots in

this period and at Ibrox, home of the team adopted by Scottish Protestants who had pride in

King and Country. The song, it is argued here, was not about anti-Catholicism but about anti-

Fenianism, a concept that developed due to a deep resentment of the violent activities carried

out by followers of that philosophy and bringing terror to the streets, towns and cities of

Scotland.

That, therefore, is an argument that covers the background to the song of the Rangers

supporters which was banned recently. As has been contended in this essay, its roots are not

in anti-Catholicism but are in opposition to an alien menace that was attempting to subvert

Scottish society. Celtic through the years have maintained their links with this philosophy, with

Celtic fans openly engaging in support for the murderous actions of the IRA from the 1920s

down through the remaining decades of the twentieth Century and right through the Troubles

from the 1970s to the 1990s. It should be no surprise to anybody that the song The Billy Boys

was the anthem of the Rangers support as it expressed opposition to the groups carrying out

these deeds. In the past 20 years, Rangers have had more Catholics playing for them than at

any other time in their history, some of them like Jorg Albertz and Neil McCann proving

themselves to be favourites among large sections of the Rangers support. The argument that

the Rangers fans were expressing a wish to see everybody of that religion dead by means of

a song is as ludicrous as it is false. However, given we live in an age of immaturity in Scotland

in 2009 then reasoned debate on what the song actually meant and how it came to exist is

stifled as it does not sit well with those who feel comfortable among those who know and

celebrate what the song opposes. This article seeks to redress the balance and give a fairer

hearing to the founders of Rangers, the early Rangers supporters and their modern-day

counterparts and their identity, culture and beliefs than has been afforded them in recent

times.

Gaff, was that written by FF's Ayrshire Billy Boy by any chance?

I think so mate...will post whole essay on new thread .

[*Manticore* 1,893]

I think so mate...will post whole essay on new thread .

ABB's a legend.

[Gaffbear 4,101]

I think so mate...will post whole essay on new thread .

ABB's a legend.

Exactly......someone with some backbone who tells it how it is...

[AMMS 27]

I find this trend to create tenuous links to Rangers and ‘Protestantism’ in the first 20 or 30 years of our existence bizarre and revisionist. With the exception of Celtc and Hibs and to a lesser extent Dundee Utd every side in Scotland was ‘Protestant’ they all drew their support from ‘Protestant areas’ their management, players, committees and overwhelming support were Protestant simply because that was the breakdown of the population in most of the country. Are we calling Aberdeen or Kilmarnock ‘protestant clubs’ because based on the premise of that piece they were. I’d contend that it wasn’t until the late 1910s and 1920s that Rangers were perceived as being ‘the Protestant club’ and that was to do with economic and social issues more than anything.

[Leiper 0]

I find this trend to create tenuous links to Rangers and ‘Protestantism’ in the first 20 or 30 years of our existence bizarre and revisionist. With the exception of Celtc and Hibs and to a lesser extent Dundee Utd every side in Scotland was ‘Protestant’ they all drew their support from ‘Protestant areas’ their management, players, committees and overwhelming support were Protestant simply because that was the breakdown of the population in most of the country. Are we calling Aberdeen or Kilmarnock ‘protestant clubs’ because based on the premise of that piece they were. I’d contend that it wasn’t until the late 1910s and 1920s that Rangers were perceived as being ‘the Protestant club’ and that was to do with economic and social issues more than anything.

I'm sure the article Gaff just posted mentions this points you are making.

It is contended here that Rangers and Celtic, while being

seen as the Clubs of Protestants and Catholics respectively in the early days, did not have

the enmity we know today until after World War One and, furthermore, is because of Celtic's

links with Irish militancy.

[Gaffbear 4,101]

I find this trend to create tenuous links to Rangers and ‘Protestantism’ in the first 20 or 30 years of our existence bizarre and revisionist. With the exception of Celtc and Hibs and to a lesser extent Dundee Utd every side in Scotland was ‘Protestant’ they all drew their support from ‘Protestant areas’ their management, players, committees and overwhelming support were Protestant simply because that was the breakdown of the population in most of the country. Are we calling Aberdeen or Kilmarnock ‘protestant clubs’ because based on the premise of that piece they were. I’d contend that it wasn’t until the late 1910s and 1920s that Rangers were perceived as being ‘the Protestant club’ and that was to do with economic and social issues more than anything.

It was alot to do with the anti-protestant stance of Celtic and Hibs that made our club predominantly Protestant

[BoltonLoyal 2]

The problem isn't with what's being sung here.

The absolute bottom line is that the vermin won a significant victory, when their relentless whining about the Billy Boys, gleaned a result.

The problem since then is that the aforementioned vermin have a modus operandi that they will use against whatever songs we sing.

Do any of you (especially the ones who seem to try to dissociate us from 'traditional' songs), honestly believe that in the fullness of time we will still be singing The Sash, Derry's Walls, even Rule Britannia?

If you have answered yes then you are even more deluded than i thought. The fenians have only one aim in their pathetic Oirish existence and that is to destroy Rangers and their support by turning us into frightened little compliant bunny rabbits who are too f*cking frightened to say boo to a goose, let alone be brave enough to stand up for what our forefathers fought for.

Well i tell you something, this Bear will never be tamed. "We will fight til the day is done". We should be kicking these c*nts from our shores not letting them take over the f*cking gaff

No Surrender

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Well said Bolton.

[Bluedell 14]

The whole "Bring back TBB" is getting annoying. As much as I loved that song, it has been banned by courts and our club. We won't get it back anytime soon although I imagine we will be singing it 10 years from now.

I don't believe that's correct. Let's leave the myths to Celtic fans.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

The whole "Bring back TBB" is getting annoying. As much as I loved that song, it has been banned by courts and our club. We won't get it back anytime soon although I imagine we will be singing it 10 years from now.

I don't believe that's correct. Let's leave the myths to Celtic fans.

Unless you count UEFA appealing to itself against itself as a Court....

[minstral 5,375]

The problem isn't with what's being sung here.

The absolute bottom line is that the vermin won a significant victory, when their relentless whining about the Billy Boys, gleaned a result.

The problem since then is that the aforementioned vermin have a modus operandi that they will use against whatever songs we sing.

Do any of you (especially the ones who seem to try to dissociate us from 'traditional' songs), honestly believe that in the fullness of time we will still be singing The Sash, Derry's Walls, even Rule Britannia?

If you have answered yes then you are even more deluded than i thought. The fenians have only one aim in their pathetic Oirish existence and that is to destroy Rangers and their support by turning us into frightened little compliant bunny rabbits who are too f*cking frightened to say boo to a goose, let alone be brave enough to stand up for what our forefathers fought for.

Well i tell you something, this Bear will never be tamed. "We will fight til the day is done". We should be kicking these c*nts from our shores not letting them take over the f*cking gaff

No Surrender

Good post Bolton, we will never surrender and i have already educated my 3 sons and now my grandson, and 2 grandaughters to take over from me when i go. So to all you handwringers and fans that want to be loved by everyone, you will never beat us. We will always be here just like our fathers and grandfathers before us, who helped make our club to be supported world wide, and as Bolton said No Surrender.

[bouncybouncybouncy 1]

Is singing TFIO embracing our history?

It's about the Billy boys not the Famine is over why don't you go homw

Perhaps the OP could have made that clearer. Especially after TFIO being ruled racist very recently.

There are still plenty of songs to sing which celebrate our history and traditions. Derry Walls, Sash, Rule Britania, GSTQ, Follow Follow etc

The whole "Bring back TBB" is getting annoying. As much as I loved that song, it has been banned by courts and our club. We won't get it back anytime soon although I imagine we will be singing it 10 years from now.

Also, to the original poster...What are you doing exactly to "fight" for our traditions and history? Battering your keyboard? Is that it?

FFS to save our traditions and history im trying to rally the rangers supporters , do you people actually believe that our club would be deducted points because the fans sing a few songs , if the fans would stand together instead of fighting we could get the whole of ibrox up on its feet bellting out the billy boys and then what the f*** can they do they cant beat 50411 fans everyweek and its all false threats anyway its just a shame that some of you have actually taken it seriously

[Jardy 0]

remember everyone we are big bad bigoted rangers

[bouncybouncybouncy 1]

The problem isn't with what's being sung here.

The absolute bottom line is that the vermin won a significant victory, when their relentless whining about the Billy Boys, gleaned a result.

The problem since then is that the aforementioned vermin have a modus operandi that they will use against whatever songs we sing.

Do any of you (especially the ones who seem to try to dissociate us from 'traditional' songs), honestly believe that in the fullness of time we will still be singing The Sash, Derry's Walls, even Rule Britannia?

If you have answered yes then you are even more deluded than i thought. The fenians have only one aim in their pathetic Oirish existence and that is to destroy Rangers and their support by turning us into frightened little compliant bunny rabbits who are too f*cking frightened to say boo to a goose, let alone be brave enough to stand up for what our forefathers fought for.

Well i tell you something, this Bear will never be tamed. "We will fight til the day is done". We should be kicking these c*nts from our shores not letting them take over the f*cking gaff

No Surrender

well said , thank god there's a few real bears out there

[Leiper 0]

The whole "Bring back TBB" is getting annoying. As much as I loved that song, it has been banned by courts and our club. We won't get it back anytime soon although I imagine we will be singing it 10 years from now.

I don't believe that's correct. Let's leave the myths to Celtic fans.

Unless you count UEFA appealing to itself against itself as a Court....

Is that you nit-picking again?

[*Manticore* 1,893]

No nit picking. TBB has not been banned by Courts.

[Leiper 0]

Is singing TFIO embracing our history?

It's about the Billy boys not the Famine is over why don't you go homw

Perhaps the OP could have made that clearer. Especially after TFIO being ruled racist very recently.

There are still plenty of songs to sing which celebrate our history and traditions. Derry Walls, Sash, Rule Britania, GSTQ, Follow Follow etc

The whole "Bring back TBB" is getting annoying. As much as I loved that song, it has been banned by courts and our club. We won't get it back anytime soon although I imagine we will be singing it 10 years from now.

Also, to the original poster...What are you doing exactly to "fight" for our traditions and history? Battering your keyboard? Is that it?

FFS to save our traditions and history im trying to rally the rangers supporters , do you people actually believe that our club would be deducted points because the fans sing a few songs , if the fans would stand together instead of fighting we could get the whole of ibrox up on its feet bellting out the billy boys and then what the f*** can they do they cant beat 50411 fans everyweek and its all false threats anyway its just a shame that some of you have actually taken it seriously

Fans have been charged when singing the songs in question, for breach of the peace or sectarian abuse.

Our club has been fined because of fans singing "sectarian" songs.

Our club has been warned numerous times because of "sectarian" songs.

Our club has said they will ban fans from Ibrox for singing "sectarian" songs and they have done so.

How the hell have you established that these are all false threats?

[Leiper 0]

No nit picking. TBB has not been banned by Courts.

Regardless...

Footballing authorities have suggested the song is sectarian and have banned it from the terraces.

We still won't get it back anytime soon.