Lamb to the slaughter

[Guest orangpendek]

well said that man

[Danny 9]

Frankie, you wonder why I called you a bigot before,

Ahhhhhhhhhhh, now I know why the hell he was saying that to me before.

I've not read this debate, at all, but somehow I suspect I would side with yourself given your post seems to pretty much sum up my kind of view.

[Boab 73]

It does seem paranoid that we have to look at Celtic for a comparison, let's look at our own.

A bit like the wee kid that doesnae like the parent comparing himself to the better cousin, not that Celtic are better!

Just an example!

The point IB...in mentioning Hartson & Pearson....was to show the lack of press parity.

Or to put it another way, your interpretation of the lack of press parity.

Fair doos, i'll certainly put my hands up if I'm wrong.

[CanadianGer 1]

Haven't read 9 pages of this. I have a fair idea of what the debate will look like, TBH.

The only way I can put all these threads in context is this. Rangers are struggling at present. Our board seems a bit lost as to what to do next. Our team on the field is weaker than Celtic's and we have failed this year and last year to stay in touch with them in the SPL. We need to build the money making side of Rangers to get back in a winning position. We will struggle to find new sponsors and new fans as long as we are tainted with fresh accusations every week.

I don't know about a media conspiracy - I'm not a journalist. But I do know that accusations like McNee's on the weekend are baseless and false - yet could stand to do real damage to our club. Can you imagine a prominent Asian businessman landing in Glasgow to discuss buying into the club or linking his Asian team to ours and being confronted by McNee with this sort of falsehood? The guy would turn and flee, rather than get caught up in the rights and wrongs of it all.

So, I oppose these false stories because they are false. I oppose being told what to think by the Scottish Executive or the Daily Record because that is what mature adults do when told to abandon their views because they are suddenly 'wrong'.

There are people who disgrace the club, no question. I've seen them. Spitting on a little girl who walked by with a Celtic scarf on. Pissing on a Catholic church while walking home from the pub after a game. But it doesn't mean that we can sweepingly ban any reference to Ulster or even to the act of Union. We just need to crack down on the idiots and move forward.

[leftyger 0]

Haven't read 9 pages of this. I have a fair idea of what the debate will look like, TBH.

The only way I can put all these threads in context is this. Rangers are struggling at present. Our board seems a bit lost as to what to do next. Our team on the field is weaker than Celtic's and we have failed this year and last year to stay in touch with them in the SPL. We need to build the money making side of Rangers to get back in a winning position. We will struggle to find new sponsors and new fans as long as we are tainted with fresh accusations every week.

I don't know about a media conspiracy - I'm not a journalist. But I do know that accusations like McNee's on the weekend are baseless and false - yet could stand to do real damage to our club. Can you imagine a prominent Asian businessman landing in Glasgow to discuss buying into the club or linking his Asian team to ours and being confronted by McNee with this sort of falsehood? The guy would turn and flee, rather than get caught up in the rights and wrongs of it all.

So, I oppose these false stories because they are false. I oppose being told what to think by the Scottish Executive or the Daily Record because that is what mature adults do when told to abandon their views because they are suddenly 'wrong'.

There are people who disgrace the club, no question. I've seen them. Spitting on a little girl who walked by with a Celtic scarf on. Pissing on a Catholic church while walking home from the pub after a game. But it doesn't mean that we can sweepingly ban any reference to Ulster or even to the act of Union. We just need to crack down on the idiots and move forward.

Donald Findlay didn't resign because of anything to do with Ulster or the Union. He resigned because he was caught singing a sectarian song - yes the Billy Boys was sectarian back in 1999, not just after UEFA banned it - at a club function. This isn't about people being told how to behave by the Executive or The Daily Record. It is about people realising that anti-Catholic songs are as unacceptable as racist chants. If they can't or wont accept this then they have no place at Ibrox or in civilised society.

[ricardopatrese 0]

Haven't read 9 pages of this. I have a fair idea of what the debate will look like, TBH.

The only way I can put all these threads in context is this. Rangers are struggling at present. Our board seems a bit lost as to what to do next. Our team on the field is weaker than Celtic's and we have failed this year and last year to stay in touch with them in the SPL. We need to build the money making side of Rangers to get back in a winning position. We will struggle to find new sponsors and new fans as long as we are tainted with fresh accusations every week.

I don't know about a media conspiracy - I'm not a journalist. But I do know that accusations like McNee's on the weekend are baseless and false - yet could stand to do real damage to our club. Can you imagine a prominent Asian businessman landing in Glasgow to discuss buying into the club or linking his Asian team to ours and being confronted by McNee with this sort of falsehood? The guy would turn and flee, rather than get caught up in the rights and wrongs of it all.

So, I oppose these false stories because they are false. I oppose being told what to think by the Scottish Executive or the Daily Record because that is what mature adults do when told to abandon their views because they are suddenly 'wrong'.

There are people who disgrace the club, no question. I've seen them. Spitting on a little girl who walked by with a Celtic scarf on. Pissing on a Catholic church while walking home from the pub after a game. But it doesn't mean that we can sweepingly ban any reference to Ulster or even to the act of Union. We just need to crack down on the idiots and move forward.

Donald Findlay didn't resign because of anything to do with Ulster or the Union. He resigned because he was caught singing a sectarian song - yes the Billy Boys was sectarian back in 1999, not just after UEFA banned it - at a club function. This isn't about people being told how to behave by the Executive or The Daily Record. It is about people realising that anti-Catholic songs are as unacceptable as racist chants. If they can't or wont accept this then they have no place at Ibrox or in civilised society.

Hear HEAR!

Well said mate -too many idiots incapable of grasping this FACT because it doesn't suit their own agenda.

Well said. :wave:

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Donald Findlay didn't resign because of anything to do with Ulster or the Union. He resigned because he was caught singing a sectarian song - yes the Billy Boys was sectarian back in 1999, not just after UEFA banned it - at a club function. This isn't about people being told how to behave by the Executive or The Daily Record. It is about people realising that anti-Catholic songs are as unacceptable as racist chants. If they can't or wont accept this then they have no place at Ibrox or in civilised society.

LG does it not bother you in the slightest that we condemned a man one week for singing it and then turned a blind eye to approx 50 000 singing it for next 7 years ?

[leftyger 0]

Donald Findlay didn't resign because of anything to do with Ulster or the Union. He resigned because he was caught singing a sectarian song - yes the Billy Boys was sectarian back in 1999, not just after UEFA banned it - at a club function. This isn't about people being told how to behave by the Executive or The Daily Record. It is about people realising that anti-Catholic songs are as unacceptable as racist chants. If they can't or wont accept this then they have no place at Ibrox or in civilised society.

LG does it not bother you in the slightest that we condemned a man one week for singing it and then turned a blind eye to approx 50 000 singing it for next 7 years ?

You may have. I have objected to the sing of The Billy Boys for more than seven years.

Also, as I pointed out right at the start of this thread, Findlay had condemned Rangers fans for singing sectarian songs at Ibrox only a few weeks before he did exactly the same thing himself. So it obviously didn’t bother him to condemn Rangers fans and then do the same himself.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Donald Findlay didn't resign because of anything to do with Ulster or the Union. He resigned because he was caught singing a sectarian song - yes the Billy Boys was sectarian back in 1999, not just after UEFA banned it - at a club function. This isn't about people being told how to behave by the Executive or The Daily Record. It is about people realising that anti-Catholic songs are as unacceptable as racist chants. If they can't or wont accept this then they have no place at Ibrox or in civilised society.

LG does it not bother you in the slightest that we condemned a man one week for singing it and then turned a blind eye to approx 50 000 singing it for next 7 years ?

You may have. I have objected to the sing of The Billy Boys for more than seven years.

Also, as I pointed out right at the start of this thread, Findlay had condemned Rangers fans for singing sectarian songs at Ibrox only a few weeks before he did exactly the same thing himself. So it obviously didn’t bother him to condemn Rangers fans and then do the same himself.

2 things....are you not confusing it with his article about 6 months later where he suggested the clubs may have to play behind closed doors for singing sectarian anthems ?

Secondly as blueben has pointed out....why was the song not outlawed there and then if it was so unacceptable ? Why did we not get a statement from Rangers alluding to this ?

[leftyger 0]

Donald Findlay didn't resign because of anything to do with Ulster or the Union. He resigned because he was caught singing a sectarian song - yes the Billy Boys was sectarian back in 1999, not just after UEFA banned it - at a club function. This isn't about people being told how to behave by the Executive or The Daily Record. It is about people realising that anti-Catholic songs are as unacceptable as racist chants. If they can't or wont accept this then they have no place at Ibrox or in civilised society.

LG does it not bother you in the slightest that we condemned a man one week for singing it and then turned a blind eye to approx 50 000 singing it for next 7 years ?

You may have. I have objected to the sing of The Billy Boys for more than seven years.

Also, as I pointed out right at the start of this thread, Findlay had condemned Rangers fans for singing sectarian songs at Ibrox only a few weeks before he did exactly the same thing himself. So it obviously didn’t bother him to condemn Rangers fans and then do the same himself.

2 things....are you not confusing it with his article about 6 months later where he suggested the clubs may have to play behind closed doors for singing sectarian anthems ?

Secondly as blueben has pointed out....why was the song not outlawed there and then if it was so unacceptable ? Why did we not get a statement from Rangers alluding to this ?

No he wrote an article in an issue of the Ranger News about sectarian singing and specifically the dropping of Simply the Best because of the additional words.

The club should have taken action against TBB much earlier than they did, it would have avoid all the trouble with UEFA, the fact that they didn't doesn't mean what Findlay did was ok.

[Frankie 505]

"your coming across like an old fashioned bigot byraway"

Hmmm.... I think that shows what you think.

And don't try and ask me to prove I am not a bigot. When one infers another Rangers fan is a bigot I think it should be up to them to prove such a disgusting slur.

I don't need to prove anything to the likes of you or Danny.

[Saudibear 0]

So, now I have an admin on here accusing me of being a bigot?

The whole point of this thread was to show the discrepencies between the media treatment of Donald Findlay (who was wrong and I freely admit that) and the way Celtic players such as Pearson and Lennon were treated.

Not one of you people has managed to explain that. Instead somehow crazily suggesting that I am a bigot for inferring a lack of partiality in the media.

I find that incredible. And actually quite upsetting.

I agree 100% (not about you being a bigot).

A precedent was set when DF was hounded and found guilty by the media for singing sectarian songs all be it at a private Rangers supporters function. I do not condone DF's actions. When Pearson and Hartson do exactly the same thing surely the media in all fairness should have hounded them with the same gusto.

If it had been Hearts or Kilmarnock players or even the cardinal himself, (He has made it plain where his sympathies lie), I would say the same thing. All should be treated equally.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

A precedent was set when DF was hounded and found guilty by the media for singing sectarian songs all be it at a private Rangers supporters function. I do not condone DF's actions. When Pearson and Hartson do exactly the same thing surely the media in all fairness should have hounded them with the same gusto.

Was DF supporting terrorism?

[Saudibear 0]

A precedent was set when DF was hounded and found guilty by the media for singing sectarian songs all be it at a private Rangers supporters function. I do not condone DF's actions. When Pearson and Hartson do exactly the same thing surely the media in all fairness should have hounded them with the same gusto.

Was DF supporting terrorism?

He was singing about a gang being up to their knees in blood. If it was your blood you'd be "terrified".

[*Manticore* 1,893]

A precedent was set when DF was hounded and found guilty by the media for singing sectarian songs all be it at a private Rangers supporters function. I do not condone DF's actions. When Pearson and Hartson do exactly the same thing surely the media in all fairness should have hounded them with the same gusto.

Was DF supporting terrorism?

He was singing about a gang being up to their knees in blood. If it was your blood you'd be "terrified".

Clutching at straws there mate.

[Briton 394]

Bauba, all credit to you - I rapidly ran out of patience with Frankie and D'art, but you have perfectly summed up inthe last few posts my problem with their stance. Guess I just lost the rag with them too early on.

For any of you guys still out there having trouble with this, let's try it this way: -

1. Singing about killing fenians (irish catholics)...

While agree with you in general that really pigs me off. I hate it when people tell me what I mean by a word. Fenian never meant Catholic to me.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Bauba, all credit to you - I rapidly ran out of patience with Frankie and D'art, but you have perfectly summed up inthe last few posts my problem with their stance. Guess I just lost the rag with them too early on.

For any of you guys still out there having trouble with this, let's try it this way: -

1. Singing about killing fenians (irish catholics)...

While agree with you in general that really pigs me off. I hate it when people tell me what I mean by a word. Fenian never meant Catholic to me.

Me neither.

It was fenians who told me what it really means.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

So, now I have an admin on here accusing me of being a bigot?

The whole point of this thread was to show the discrepencies between the media treatment of Donald Findlay (who was wrong and I freely admit that) and the way Celtic players such as Pearson and Lennon were treated.

Not one of you people has managed to explain that. Instead somehow crazily suggesting that I am a bigot for inferring a lack of partiality in the media.

I find that incredible. And actually quite upsetting.

And you are not alone with those thoughts Frankie.

[bauba30 1]

Donald Findlay didn't resign because of anything to do with Ulster or the Union. He resigned because he was caught singing a sectarian song - yes the Billy Boys was sectarian back in 1999, not just after UEFA banned it - at a club function. This isn't about people being told how to behave by the Executive or The Daily Record. It is about people realising that anti-Catholic songs are as unacceptable as racist chants. If they can't or wont accept this then they have no place at Ibrox or in civilised society.

LG does it not bother you in the slightest that we condemned a man one week for singing it and then turned a blind eye to approx 50 000 singing it for next 7 years ?

Bothers me that we didnt do something about it sooner when it was clearly unacceptable behaviour

[bauba30 1]

So, now I have an admin on here accusing me of being a bigot?

The whole point of this thread was to show the discrepencies between the media treatment of Donald Findlay (who was wrong and I freely admit that) and the way Celtic players such as Pearson and Lennon were treated.

Not one of you people has managed to explain that. Instead somehow crazily suggesting that I am a bigot for inferring a lack of partiality in the media.

I find that incredible. And actually quite upsetting.

I agree 100% (not about you being a bigot).

A precedent was set when DF was hounded and found guilty by the media for singing sectarian songs all be it at a private Rangers supporters function. I do not condone DF's actions. When Pearson and Hartson do exactly the same thing surely the media in all fairness should have hounded them with the same gusto.

If it had been Hearts or Kilmarnock players or even the cardinal himself, (He has made it plain where his sympathies lie), I would say the same thing. All should be treated equally.

Fair enough, but there are people on here saying that what DF did was ok - I just cannot agree with that at all

[bauba30 1]

A precedent was set when DF was hounded and found guilty by the media for singing sectarian songs all be it at a private Rangers supporters function. I do not condone DF's actions. When Pearson and Hartson do exactly the same thing surely the media in all fairness should have hounded them with the same gusto.

Was DF supporting terrorism?

Were the Celtic players? Let me tell you, I have sang FOA before at a karaoke night - I certainly wasnt supporting terrorism - some people really need to get a reality check or something.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

A precedent was set when DF was hounded and found guilty by the media for singing sectarian songs all be it at a private Rangers supporters function. I do not condone DF's actions. When Pearson and Hartson do exactly the same thing surely the media in all fairness should have hounded them with the same gusto.

Was DF supporting terrorism?

Were the Celtic players? Let me tell you, I have sang FOA before at a karaoke night - I certainly wasnt supporting terrorism - some people really need to get a reality check or something.

Bauba....no-one is in the slightest bit concerned about FOA....its the IRA chants that were interspersed in the song.

[bauba30 1]

A precedent was set when DF was hounded and found guilty by the media for singing sectarian songs all be it at a private Rangers supporters function. I do not condone DF's actions. When Pearson and Hartson do exactly the same thing surely the media in all fairness should have hounded them with the same gusto.

Was DF supporting terrorism?

Were the Celtic players? Let me tell you, I have sang FOA before at a karaoke night - I certainly wasnt supporting terrorism - some people really need to get a reality check or something.

Bauba....no-one is in the slightest bit concerned about FOA....its the IRA chants that were interspersed in the song.

I accept that - the point I was trying to amke was that just because you sing ro chant something doesnt make you a supporter - the same as when we had 50k Gers fans giving it, Hullo Hullo, they were all practising protestants - they were merely caught up in a situation and singing along. I know I sang BBs loads of times, I still cant explain logically why I sang it but i know I wasnt a practising protestant

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

A precedent was set when DF was hounded and found guilty by the media for singing sectarian songs all be it at a private Rangers supporters function. I do not condone DF's actions. When Pearson and Hartson do exactly the same thing surely the media in all fairness should have hounded them with the same gusto.

Was DF supporting terrorism?

Were the Celtic players? Let me tell you, I have sang FOA before at a karaoke night - I certainly wasnt supporting terrorism - some people really need to get a reality check or something.

Bauba....no-one is in the slightest bit concerned about FOA....its the IRA chants that were interspersed in the song.

I accept that - the point I was trying to amke was that just because you sing ro chant something doesnt make you a supporter - the same as when we had 50k Gers fans giving it, Hullo Hullo, they were all practising protestants - they were merely caught up in a situation and singing along. I know I sang BBs loads of times, I still cant explain logically why I sang it but i know I wasnt a practising protestant

Bauba...are you telling me here that if you sing "IRA" it doesn't make you a supporter ?

Especially when you hijack another song to make those chants.

[Leiper 0]

A precedent was set when DF was hounded and found guilty by the media for singing sectarian songs all be it at a private Rangers supporters function. I do not condone DF's actions. When Pearson and Hartson do exactly the same thing surely the media in all fairness should have hounded them with the same gusto.

Was DF supporting terrorism?

Were the Celtic players? Let me tell you, I have sang FOA before at a karaoke night - I certainly wasnt supporting terrorism - some people really need to get a reality check or something.

Bauba....no-one is in the slightest bit concerned about FOA....its the IRA chants that were interspersed in the song.

I accept that - the point I was trying to amke was that just because you sing ro chant something doesnt make you a supporter - the same as when we had 50k Gers fans giving it, Hullo Hullo, they were all practising protestants - they were merely caught up in a situation and singing along. I know I sang BBs loads of times, I still cant explain logically why I sang it but i know I wasnt a practising protestant

That's the whole point of this thread. Everyone acknowledges that two wrongs do not make a right. However a bit of balance and fairness must be shown, be it with the SPL, Uefa, or the Scottish Media. From the evidence given within this thread, there is no balance or fairness from the Scottish Media.