Current Situation

[DavidRST 0]

So if we are £30M in debt, next summer we will be approx £20M following CL money coming in and our cutbacks. I would suggest it may even be as little as £17M. Why is there this hysteria or can someone enlighten me.

The OP seems to suggest the level of debt and the price for the club is the same thing, I don’t understand that at all….

The debt is now the asking price. I am told, that due to Murray's wider relationship with Lloyds and all that entails, his shareholding is virtually worthless.

[GeneralCartmanLee 313]

So if we are £30M in debt, next summer we will be approx £20M following CL money coming in and our cutbacks. I would suggest it may even be as little as £17M. Why is there this hysteria or can someone enlighten me.

The OP seems to suggest the level of debt and the price for the club is the same thing, I don’t understand that at all….

The BANK has told Murray to sell. They are due £30m. They get an offer of £30m, they get their cash and they are out of here.

Murray is not making the decisions, he is simply trying to recover a few small £m's if he possibly can. In the end the bank will decide.

Sorry but that isn't correct. Anyone buying the club would have to acquire the shares then tackle the debt, not the other way round. Also who is to say Lloyds want all thirty million back straight away, I seriously doubt the debt is structured like that and surely they would want some borrowing form Rangers as how else would they make money from us.....

[thebooler 4,509]

So if we are £30M in debt, next summer we will be approx £20M following CL money coming in and our cutbacks. I would suggest it may even be as little as £17M. Why is there this hysteria or can someone enlighten me.

The OP seems to suggest the level of debt and the price for the club is the same thing, I don’t understand that at all….

The debt is now the asking price. I am told, that due to Murray's wider relationship with Lloyds and all that entails, his shareholding is virtually worthless.

So in laymans terms, if I give the bank £30 million sheets, I own the Rangers?

[ScotBear 144]

So just the same stuff that's been peddled out for the last few days then. Cheers for the update

Again, I'm sticking by my gut instinct. Pointless hysteria the last few days. If we get a buyer that clears the debt.....great. If we don't, I bet we'll be fine and that no key players will leave. The only maybe for me is Bougherra if he's unsettled and a substantial bid (£5m+) comes in for him.

So you're happy just to sit tight and wait and see?

I'd just be happy if everyone got back to focusing on the fact we've got an enormous game this weekend at Tannadice. Our situation is not as it's been painted in the media, that's my opinion and I firmly believe that. Look at the climb down and apology after they stated that Murray was forced down......was b*llshit, the media are taking shots in the dark from a flippant remark from Walter.

Do you not remember the hysteria in January ? Everyone for sale, £3m must be raised, Rangers in administration fears......no key players have left, we rejected £3m for Mendes in January.

Form your own opinion, we shouldn't just open wide and let the media feed us. We should know by now that they are far from reliable.

I agree to a certain extent and you do make a lot of sense but do you not feel that if at least some of us are working on pressuring the bank (just in case) its worth while so we can quickly get back to the football?

Can it cause any harm for people to work on pushing this while the rest show a little support by signing petitions or spreading the word and then just return to the good parts while the select few keep the momentum going?

I'm in two minds about putting pressure on the bank. On the one hand I think it's commendable and is an illustration of the passionate support we have. It's all done with the best of intentions, and I appreciate that. It may even put that little bit extra pressure on the bank to accept a sale going through ASAP.

On the other hand, I think it can be interpreted as the fans reacting in an over the top manner to the media speculation. Fans protesting and setting up petitions only adds to the hysteria surrounding the club, and I wonder what effect that could have on the management and players. Personally I would like to hear the fans groups come out with a solid 100% backing of Smith, put pressure on the club/bank for his contract to be extended until the end of the season and just generally for a lot more focus to be put on getting back to concentrating on matters on the pitch.

The most dangerous aspect of this whole situation for me is the fear that it is affecting the management and players. That's what the support should be focusing on, we have to do our bit to ensure that doesn't happen.

[GeneralCartmanLee 313]

So if we are £30M in debt, next summer we will be approx £20M following CL money coming in and our cutbacks. I would suggest it may even be as little as £17M. Why is there this hysteria or can someone enlighten me.

The OP seems to suggest the level of debt and the price for the club is the same thing, I don’t understand that at all….

The debt is now the asking price. I am told, that due to Murray's wider relationship with Lloyds and all that entails, his shareholding is virtually worthless.

Interesting. Sir David is writing off the total value of his shareholding, i am surprised if that is the case. So to confirm you believe he is giving his 92% stake in the club to anyone willing to manage the LLoyds debt ?

[GrumpyRyan 8]

So if we are £30M in debt, next summer we will be approx £20M following CL money coming in and our cutbacks. I would suggest it may even be as little as £17M. Why is there this hysteria or can someone enlighten me.

The OP seems to suggest the level of debt and the price for the club is the same thing, I don’t understand that at all….

The debt is now the asking price. I am told, that due to Murray's wider relationship with Lloyds and all that entails, his shareholding is virtually worthless.

So hypothetically...If the bank would follow suit with their agenda of selling debt at £0.40 in the quid, a takeover could be accomplished at a very good price? So pressure on the bank to be as fair with us as with others would hypothetically prove fruitful

[Poetry_In_Blue 1,043]

So if we are £30M in debt, next summer we will be approx £20M following CL money coming in and our cutbacks. I would suggest it may even be as little as £17M. Why is there this hysteria or can someone enlighten me.

The OP seems to suggest the level of debt and the price for the club is the same thing, I don’t understand that at all….

The debt is now the asking price. I am told, that due to Murray's wider relationship with Lloyds and all that entails, his shareholding is virtually worthless.

If that is true I'm surprised there hasn't been a concrete offer from an interested party though? Also, if it's true that the bank are saying players would have to be sold in January then they are contradicting themselves as they have allegedly said no player would need to be sold in January but it might have to happen at the end of the season.

There has been too much twisting by the media for their own gains and because of this I'm taking everything with a pinch of salt at the moment until I see something concrete. Of course I will sign petitions etc which I've already done and would support this course of action but I won't believe everything that is written even if it's form a reliable source.

[Emerson 2]

So if we are £30M in debt, next summer we will be approx £20M following CL money coming in and our cutbacks. I would suggest it may even be as little as £17M. Why is there this hysteria or can someone enlighten me.

The OP seems to suggest the level of debt and the price for the club is the same thing, I don’t understand that at all….

The debt is now the asking price. I am told, that due to Murray's wider relationship with Lloyds and all that entails, his shareholding is virtually worthless.

So assuming the debt was zero, how much would Rangers be worth then? £20M?

[GrumpyRyan 8]

So just the same stuff that's been peddled out for the last few days then. Cheers for the update

Again, I'm sticking by my gut instinct. Pointless hysteria the last few days. If we get a buyer that clears the debt.....great. If we don't, I bet we'll be fine and that no key players will leave. The only maybe for me is Bougherra if he's unsettled and a substantial bid (£5m+) comes in for him.

So you're happy just to sit tight and wait and see?

I'd just be happy if everyone got back to focusing on the fact we've got an enormous game this weekend at Tannadice. Our situation is not as it's been painted in the media, that's my opinion and I firmly believe that. Look at the climb down and apology after they stated that Murray was forced down......was b*llshit, the media are taking shots in the dark from a flippant remark from Walter.

Do you not remember the hysteria in January ? Everyone for sale, £3m must be raised, Rangers in administration fears......no key players have left, we rejected £3m for Mendes in January.

Form your own opinion, we shouldn't just open wide and let the media feed us. We should know by now that they are far from reliable.

I agree to a certain extent and you do make a lot of sense but do you not feel that if at least some of us are working on pressuring the bank (just in case) its worth while so we can quickly get back to the football?

Can it cause any harm for people to work on pushing this while the rest show a little support by signing petitions or spreading the word and then just return to the good parts while the select few keep the momentum going?

The most dangerous aspect of this whole situation for me is the fear that it is affecting the management and players. That's what the support should be focusing on, we have to do our bit to ensure that doesn't happen.

I can fully see your concern there, that's for sure and its a valid point your make

Its not an easy situation

[thebooler 4,509]

So just the same stuff that's been peddled out for the last few days then. Cheers for the update

Again, I'm sticking by my gut instinct. Pointless hysteria the last few days. If we get a buyer that clears the debt.....great. If we don't, I bet we'll be fine and that no key players will leave. The only maybe for me is Bougherra if he's unsettled and a substantial bid (£5m+) comes in for him.

So you're happy just to sit tight and wait and see?

I'd just be happy if everyone got back to focusing on the fact we've got an enormous game this weekend at Tannadice. Our situation is not as it's been painted in the media, that's my opinion and I firmly believe that. Look at the climb down and apology after they stated that Murray was forced down......was b*llshit, the media are taking shots in the dark from a flippant remark from Walter.

Do you not remember the hysteria in January ? Everyone for sale, £3m must be raised, Rangers in administration fears......no key players have left, we rejected £3m for Mendes in January.

Form your own opinion, we shouldn't just open wide and let the media feed us. We should know by now that they are far from reliable.

I agree to a certain extent and you do make a lot of sense but do you not feel that if at least some of us are working on pressuring the bank (just in case) its worth while so we can quickly get back to the football?

Can it cause any harm for people to work on pushing this while the rest show a little support by signing petitions or spreading the word and then just return to the good parts while the select few keep the momentum going?

I'm in two minds about putting pressure on the bank. On the one hand I think it's commendable and is an illustration of the passionate support we have. It's all done with the best of intentions, and I appreciate that. It may even put that little bit extra pressure on the bank to accept a sale going through ASAP.

On the other hand, I think it can be interpreted as the fans reacting in an over the top manner to the media speculation. Fans protesting and setting up petitions only adds to the hysteria surrounding the club, and I wonder what effect that could have on the management and players. Personally I would like to hear the fans groups come out with a solid 100% backing of Smith, put pressure on the club/bank for his contract to be extended until the end of the season and just generally for a lot more focus to be put on getting back to concentrating on matters on the pitch.

The most dangerous aspect of this whole situation for me is the fear that it is affecting the management and players. That's what the support should be focusing on, we have to do our bit to ensure that doesn't happen.

No matter what happens with petitions, pressure groups, etc. we will still be supporting the team on the park.

Its not like its one or the other.

And dont you think the players will get a boost just from the fact that the club are being supported by the fans on all fronts?

[tonto 0]

The real situation is rather different to the hype, I posted a link a few days ago for debt to turnover exposure, I had an accountant I know look at the figures, he reckons any businessman with any sense will wait for the outcome of MIH published accounts. The debt at MIH is according to him not sustainable, as it is roughly 55% more than turnover, he expects a major restructioning of MIH, that is if they do not go under. Anyone who waits for the outcome would most likely be able to buy the club for a percentage of the debt, as, if MIH have to undergo drastic financial and asset cuts would be involved in a fire sale. It looks like we may be in for a long haul.

[GeneralCartmanLee 313]

So if we are £30M in debt, next summer we will be approx £20M following CL money coming in and our cutbacks. I would suggest it may even be as little as £17M. Why is there this hysteria or can someone enlighten me.

The OP seems to suggest the level of debt and the price for the club is the same thing, I don’t understand that at all….

The debt is now the asking price. I am told, that due to Murray's wider relationship with Lloyds and all that entails, his shareholding is virtually worthless.

So assuming the debt was zero, how much would Rangers be worth then? £20M?

Rangers are worth what the chairman values his shareholding at.

ooops Ex chaiman should i say

[tonto 0]

"Rangers are worth what the chairman values his shareholding at."

Unfortunately the ex-chairman appears to believe just that.

[J_RFC87 762]

Lloyds are used to PR disasters anyway

[Creampuff 22,628]

Some people talk so much pish on this.

The asking price is not the same as the debt, what sence does that make?

The asking price is a price deemed acceptable by the majority shareholder.

[DavidRST 0]

So if we are £30M in debt, next summer we will be approx £20M following CL money coming in and our cutbacks. I would suggest it may even be as little as £17M. Why is there this hysteria or can someone enlighten me.

The OP seems to suggest the level of debt and the price for the club is the same thing, I don’t understand that at all….

The debt is now the asking price. I am told, that due to Murray's wider relationship with Lloyds and all that entails, his shareholding is virtually worthless.

So in laymans terms, if I give the bank £30 million sheets, I own the Rangers?

You would technically go through Murray, but yes.

[DavidRST 0]

So if we are £30M in debt, next summer we will be approx £20M following CL money coming in and our cutbacks. I would suggest it may even be as little as £17M. Why is there this hysteria or can someone enlighten me.

The OP seems to suggest the level of debt and the price for the club is the same thing, I don’t understand that at all….

The debt is now the asking price. I am told, that due to Murray's wider relationship with Lloyds and all that entails, his shareholding is virtually worthless.

So assuming the debt was zero, how much would Rangers be worth then? £20M?

Rangers are worth what the chairman values his shareholding at.

ooops Ex chaiman should i say

No it isn't. But we could go on like this all day.

One needs to take the majority shareholder's wider relationship with the bank into account.

[GeneralCartmanLee 313]

Indeed they do and writing off his shareholding for 0p has wider implications for MIH, the reason i would be surprised if you are correct. Lets wait and see.

[GrumpyRyan 8]

Is Murray liable for the debt to the bank being the majority shareholder? The bank can then force him to sell his shares to recoup that debt or am I wide of the mark.

Finance such as this is not a strong point

[Frankie 505]

Some people talk so much pish on this.

The asking price is not the same as the debt, what sence does that make?

The asking price is a price deemed acceptable by the majority shareholder.

The majority shareholder is under pressure from the bank due to his parent company's problems - which is why the club is being sold at just over £30million.

The reason the King consortium want it for even less is because while they want to buy the club they need as much money as they can to maintain it as a viable business until season ticket sales come in next Spring. If not, the threat of selling key assets is still there...

Remember, we won't know have a bank (or MIH) credit facility to use as we'll be self-sufficient.

[Frankie 505]

Indeed they do and writing off his shareholding for 0p has wider implications for MIH, the reason i would be surprised if you are correct. Lets wait and see.

There are no potential buyers of the club for more than 0p - although the story goes someone did offer 1p in the Members Lounge last season...

[tonto 0]

The bank has a lean on Murray's assets, whatever they may be, if he fails to meet his committments that are underwritten by those assets the bank can sell those assets to recover their debt/exposure, as the major shareholder and titular head of MIH he is responsible for debt accruing to and from that company.

[GeneralCartmanLee 313]

Indeed they do and writing off his shareholding for 0p has wider implications for MIH, the reason i would be surprised if you are correct. Lets wait and see.

There are no potential buyers of the club for more than 0p - although the story goes someone did offer 1p in the Members Lounge last season...

I hope he can sell it for 0p as it makes a sale more likely but to give away Rangers just to settle a bank debt will surely cause even bigger problems for MIH

[damien1 29]

So if we are £30M in debt, next summer we will be approx £20M following CL money coming in and our cutbacks. I would suggest it may even be as little as £17M. Why is there this hysteria or can someone enlighten me.

The OP seems to suggest the level of debt and the price for the club is the same thing, I don’t understand that at all….

My reckoning, market value of shares for the club is £54m, the debt levels vary from reports of £20-30m, therefore minus the debt the club is worth around £30m.

[docspiderman 1,262]

Hello everyone,

Long time since I've been here, but having been criticised for not putting info out on various sources, thought I should share this here.

As you know, I don’t normally do such things, but given the circumstances, we feel it’s important and fair that the support should know this. Obviously I won’t name sources, but let me assure you, I wouldn’t be posting this if

a) I didn’t trust the source implicitly

b) they didn’t have a 100% track record

c) they weren’t as close to the situation or

d) it didn’t check out when we investigated it.

Allegedly;

• The bank are panicking

• Senior management are calling it ‘a PR disaster’

• They want out soonest

• Bain is not involved in the day-to-day running of the club

• Muir is effectively running the club

• Muir is hawking players to clubs

• If the club is not sold at least three first team players will be sold in January in an attempt to raise £10m. This will allow the bank to drop the price for the club to £20m. They believe this might encourage further investors.

The pressure that is being brought to bear on Lloyds IS having an effect. Keep up the good work Bears.

Dangerous times, but potential sunshine ahead.

This would make it less likely ;

(a) that the club can get the success needed to generate more revenue to repay loans.

(b) to attract potential buyers because more money would be needed to be laid out to replace players.

Regarding Muir hawking players to other clubs; a number of our players have been circulated as available for the last 3 transfer windows and all have been widely known to be available since last january.