Crime of the century ?

[Harry Callahan 9]

Quite remarkable the way the thread has developed....my opening post sought to highlight the imbalance in the press....the usual suspects who have caused it....and the failure of the current custodians to defend both the image of the club and those who follow her.

Yet despite this the focus certainly on the last few pages appears to be examinging the behaviour of Rangers supporters in minute detail.

The Rangers support are not the ones on trial here. We all know that a very small minority occasionally fall short of the standards we all expect. But the fact is you could say that about any football club.

What is appalling is that certain posters are under the misapprehension that we are not entitled to defend ourselves from lies and very very imbalanced reporting due to a very small minority. What an absolutely ridiculous notion.

Journalists with hidden agendas (some of them most certainly the ongoing discreditting and tarnishing of our club and support)....misrepresentation in the equality and balance of reporting.....downright lies...articles besmirching the character and memory of some of this club's legends....or in the case of Ron McKay making jokes at the expense of the Ibrox Disaster....

Is there anyone who really wants to tell me that we have no right to defend ourselves ?

The very point you are trying to make is directly responsible for turning the posters you speak of into what they are today.

[ABOD 2]

A few of the posters on here are absolute cunts and i am ashamed they call themselves Rangers fans, TWB and a couple more, im just glad the vast majority arent like you fuckwits

Its getting beyond the joke lad.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

The very point you are trying to make is directly responsible for turning the posters you speak of into what they are today

Perhaps HC...but I find it amazing in pages full of examples some people are prepared to ignore all that evidence and prattle on about "context".

Actually I dont find it "amazing" I find it unbelievable.

If people want to see Rangers as a purely secular club with no religious affiliations then that is their right....as I said earlier in the thread - each to their own.

But that in no way allows them to try to undermine Bears who merely wish to defend the club from some pretty hate filled attacks.

I think thats what causes most Bears to question their allegiances.

A few years ago on here there was a guy who went by the name Bauba. He did exactly the same as some have done on this thread - ignore the mountains of evidence in favour of some scrap or morsel which he argued belligerently to death. He also maintained we had no right to defend ourselves so long as as some individuals engaged in unsavoury behaviour.

He would log into thread after thread with the same nonsense time and time again....always highlighting negative incidents by Rangers supporters. Of course he presented his Rangers CV time and time again....he even had the audacity to suggest that our card display which was twisted into "Nuremburg Rally" was a positive thing !

Manti Minstral and myself warned admin time and time again about him but no action was taken. Eventually his ruining of decent threads pissed off a lot of regular posters and they left the site.

He eventually outed himself at the Rangers v QOS Scottish Cup Final...coming online and cheering on QOS.

History appears to be repeating itself.

[Harry Callahan 9]

The very point you are trying to make is directly responsible for turning the posters you speak of into what they are today

Perhaps HC...but I find it amazing in pages full of examples some people are prepared to ignore all that evidence and prattle on about "context".

Actually I dont find it "amazing" I find it unbelievable.

If people want to see Rangers as a purely secular club with no religious affiliations then that is their right....as I said earlier in the thread - each to their own.

But that in no way allows them to try to undermine Bears who merely wish to defend the club from some pretty hate filled attacks.

I think thats what causes most Bears to question their allegiances.

A few years ago on here there was a guy who went by the name Bauba. He did exactly the same as some have done on this thread - ignore the mountains of evidence in favour of some scrap or morsel which he argued belligerently to death. He also maintained we had no right to defend ourselves so long as as some individuals engaged in unsavoury behaviour.

He would log into thread after thread with the same nonsense time and time again....always highlighting negative incidents by Rangers supporters. Of course he presented his Rangers CV time and time again....he even had the audacity to suggest that our card display which was twisted into "Nuremburg Rally" was a positive thing !

Manti Minstral and myself warned admin time and time again about him but no action was taken. Eventually his ruining of decent threads pissed off a lot of regular posters and they left the site.

He eventually outed himself at the Rangers v QOS Scottish Cup Final...coming online and cheering on QOS.

History appears to be repeating itself.

I genuinely apologise for taking the thread off topic on the second page, you yourself commented on it, I somehow seen what what was coming.

There are far too many apologists in the so called Rangers family these days than I care for, I am all for change if it is for the genuine good of our club and standards, which does include welcoming exactly where we came from, sadly we are in a position where more and more it is for the good of our doubters and not our own.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

I genuinely apologise for taking the thread off topic on the second page, you yourself commented on it, I somehow seen what what was coming

HC believe me - you have nothing to apologise for.

[minstral 5,375]

Some of the posters dont have a clue about our old support and would rather believe the media and press who are full of tims.

[Harry Callahan 9]

I genuinely apologise for taking the thread off topic on the second page, you yourself commented on it, I somehow seen what what was coming

HC believe me - you have nothing to apologise for.

22 pages later we have the same shite being trotted out, more off topic, but somehow related, the same sheite.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

I genuinely apologise for taking the thread off topic on the second page, you yourself commented on it, I somehow seen what what was coming

HC believe me - you have nothing to apologise for.

22 pages later we have the same shite being trotted out, more off topic, but somehow related, the same sheite.

Thats because they are unable to argue the points raised in the original post.

What have we got....some of our fans sing naughty songs - defending ourselves is futile.

We are the easier target because our songs are more audible. (Work that one out if you can)

End of arguement.

[Harry Callahan 9]

I genuinely apologise for taking the thread off topic on the second page, you yourself commented on it, I somehow seen what what was coming

HC believe me - you have nothing to apologise for.

22 pages later we have the same shite being trotted out, more off topic, but somehow related, the same sheite.

Thats because they are unable to argue the points raised in the original post.

What have we got....some of our fans sing naughty songs - defending ourselves is futile.

We are the easier target because our songs are more audible. (Work that one out if you can)

End of arguement.

IF, and it is a big IF, equality is ever shown, I will think about questioning my own kind.

I have no doubt I will never need to worry about putting myself in that situation.

For the one's that are so willing to do so, well done you.

(I am without any shadow of doubt being sarcastic)

[Edin-Bear-ugh 1]

We Are The People.

Glasgow Rangers founded on non religious issues. Just a few men who wanted to form 'The Rangers'

It's obvious it's all against twb and myself.

I long for a day without non rangers songs. However. It probably won't Happen.

Let's thank ourself we were chosen as Gers fans.

We all know this thread has no end. So from me. to your health

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

We Are The People.

Glasgow Rangers founded on non religious issues. Just a few men who wanted to form 'The Rangers'

It's obvious it's all against twb and myself.

I long for a day without non rangers songs. However. It probably won't Happen.

Let's thank ourself we were chosen as Gers fans.

We all know this thread has no end. So from me. to your health

As opposed to Celtic who were founded for religious reasons.

How do you square that with "Rangers cultivated sectarianism" ?

[BoltonLoyal 2]

We Are The People.

Glasgow Rangers founded on non religious issues. Just a few men who wanted to form 'The Rangers'

It's obvious it's all against twb and myself.

I long for a day without non rangers songs. However. It probably won't Happen.

Let's thank ourself we were chosen as Gers fans.

We all know this thread has no end. So from me. to your health

F*ck me sideways! That's some capitulation even by an IRA supporters standards.

[Harry Callahan 9]

It's obvious it's all against twb and myself.

Are you after the attention?

You got what you wanted. Well done you.

You have nothing of worth to add to this thread after how many pages.

[BLUEDIGNITY 34,078]

We Are The People.

Glasgow Rangers founded on non religious issues. Just a few men who wanted to form 'The Rangers'

It's obvious it's all against twb and myself.

I long for a day without non rangers songs. However. It probably won't Happen.

Let's thank ourself we were chosen as Gers fans.

We all know this thread has no end. So from me. to your health

Thank fuck ya nonce, embra mick nae mere, travellindangleberry nae mere ! Thanks fur comin !

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

We Are The People.

Glasgow Rangers founded on non religious issues. Just a few men who wanted to form 'The Rangers'

It's obvious it's all against twb and myself.

I long for a day without non rangers songs. However. It probably won't Happen.

Let's thank ourself we were chosen as Gers fans.

We all know this thread has no end. So from me. to your health

As opposed to Celtic who were founded for religious reasons.

How do you square that with "Rangers cultivated sectarianism" ?

It would be courteous Edin-Bear-ugh if you would respond to the question.

Otherwise it may be inferred that your occasional forays onto the board...and the little ditties you leave are purely to wind up other posters.

Its not really a difficult question after all.

[ABOD 2]

We Are The People.

Glasgow Rangers founded on non religious issues. Just a few men who wanted to form 'The Rangers'

It's obvious it's all against twb and myself.

I long for a day without non rangers songs. However. It probably won't Happen.

Let's thank ourself we were chosen as Gers fans.

We all know this thread has no end. So from me. to your health

Tell me this what harm is non Rangers songs doing to you in the first place if you don't like them FUCK OFF!.

Simples

[minstral 5,375]

We Are The People.

Glasgow Rangers founded on non religious issues. Just a few men who wanted to form 'The Rangers'

It's obvious it's all against twb and myself.

I long for a day without non rangers songs. However. It probably won't Happen.

Let's thank ourself we were chosen as Gers fans.

We all know this thread has no end. So from me. to your health

What you forgot to say was we ended up a Protestant club,loved by generations of fans.

[Jimenez 1]

As always d'Art, atriculate and spot on.

[martin93 136]

We Are The People.

Glasgow Rangers founded on non religious issues. Just a few men who wanted to form 'The Rangers'

It's obvious it's all against twb and myself.

I long for a day without non rangers songs. However. It probably won't Happen.

Let's thank ourself we were chosen as Gers fans.

We all know this thread has no end. So from me. to your health

Go fuck off to the tartan army as they seem to be so good for you

[.Williamson. 87,189]

Before I joined this forum I wasn't fully aware of the massive division in our support at times.

It is fucking abysmal.

[caseyjones 3,009]

It's patently obvious that there are people within our club, in the boardroom and in the stands, who want to see an end to any connection Rangers has to Protestantism, the OO, Loyalism, Ulster etc. and are quite happy to allow our enemies to do their work for them.

Correct - and I am proud to be one of them - we are first and foremost a FOOTBALL club. Our GREAT traditions are founded in our sportsmanship, integrity, and will to win.

Take the religion out and we are still the greatest football team (IMHO). If there was no football but only the religion Ibrox would be deserted.

No I beg to differ.

You should not be proud...you should be absolutely ashamed of yourself.

And it has nothing to do whatsoever with the fact that you wish to see and end to Rangers connection with Protestantism/Ulster etc etc. Each to their own.

What you have done in this thread is almost justified a case, or tendered a plea in mitigation, for those reptiles who peddle lies about our club. Those who would dismiss the GREAT traditions you yourself highlight - sportmanship, integrity and will to win. I havent heard any journo speak of those great traditions of our club for many a year...not since the likes of Hugh Taylor or Bob Cramspey. God rest their souls.

What you have most certainly done is exonerated our current guardians from any sense of responsibility in defending such great traditions simply because a few idiots occasionally break into a banned song.

It would appear to me you are almost opposing the saying "two wrongs make a right".

Tell me something Bluepeter9 .....when did you last hear the likes of Spiers/Anna Smith/Mcnee or Keevins even mention the huge steps this club has taken in the last few years to tackle religious bigotry. Or mention the many awards we have won or commendations from UEFA ?

Like me save you the research - never.

As Spiers condemned every man woman and child within Ibrox labelling them "Bigotted troglodytes" guys like you are giving them all the justification they need by suggesting until we are perfect we cannot defend ourselves.

Absolute nonsense.

Im not asking Murray to defend bigotted chants or singing or justifiable criticism thereof - Im asking him to defend this club from the blatant lies that have been told by elements of the media.

D'art - it funny that your opening post was having a dig at Traynor and yet your arguments are all about spiers (Anna Smith is just the opposite side of our bigots coin - a green bigot with an agenda - so what! strangly she is entitled to an opinion and is so our of kilter most people will laugh at her - to take her seriously is to give her more credit than she is worth.) and McNee and Keevins have both written articles cndeming Celtic support. Traynor has written out against them.

Let me ask you this - Give me an article that you think the club should have come out against and what you would have them say. (and just to make if challenging - not Anna Smith! LOL)

If you feel stringly about Spiers etc. - hound them - why hide behind the club, go direct to him, his editor, online with the publications etc.

You know as well as I that there is an element of our support who do and will continue to let us down - they make it easy for these columists to air these views.

I reiterate Rangers would still be strong without and psuedo religious connections.

Well at least BP9 you seem to know something of Ms Smith's shall we say..."colourful" past. But before you dismiss her out of sight as laughable...how many of the Mail's readers are aware of her membership of certain organisations ? She writes for a national newspaper with a respectable circulation...I would not dismiss her so lightly. In fact a quick reveiew of her article stats is quite interesting. For a social/political commentator she ventures quite regularly into the area of sport...and no prizes for guessing who more often than not is her subject matter. Suprising really considering the abnormally high rate of cardiac deaths...particularly in areas of social deprivation in Scotland...our child proverty figures and high levels of drugs misuse and our poor standard of housing.

Yes I did start with Traynor ...purely because imo he offered the most recent example of the imbalannce I referred to in my article. Furthermore the publication he writes for offers a good example of how their conduct with regard to reporting can be challenged by club and fans working together in partnership.

Im aware that there have been a no. of articles by messrs Keevins and McNee etc in which they have reported unsavoury behaviour by the other side. However I would maintain there is far from a lack of parity overall.

Spiers I would set aside from the rest. His articles have been a constant drip drip drip or chip chip chip away at Rangers for several years now. I would even suggest he revels in the noteriety of it all. And believe me I have already involved myself in "hounding". The problem is that so long as our club remain silent he can marginalise the only people who challenge him...his "paranoid beserkers" comment being a good example of this. I have little doubt Spiers is still smarting from the end of his cosy little relationship with SDM...when the latter referred to him as "The Judas Iscariot of Scottish Journalism". You know how the saying goes...Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

As to articles I think the club should have challenged...well I dont have a yearly bus pass which allows me to jump on the offended bus every time a negative story about Rangers come out. Im more concerned about the pattern of behaviour and articles than one single article itself....though Smith's comment in the Mail on Sunday which accused us of "cultivating sectarianism" etc etc would have proven worthy.

I realise you asked me not to include Smith...and to be honest its not about one single article. Spiers articles for instance show a catalogue of imbalance as well as lies. The News of the World has also featured several false stories designed to paint a picture of us as mindless bigots....the ground being cut in the shape of the sash...Egss Benedict etc etc. So its not really about one article but more a collection of articles which are designed to tarnish the image of our club.

But let me give you an example where we did challenge but too little too late. After Joke McConnell and his cronies had fallen from power SDM gave a speech at which he more or less rubbished Scotlands Secret Shame and highlighted Scotlands real shame - viz the things Smith should probably be addressing if she wasnt so busy concentrating on Rangers - ie drugs abuse etc etc.

Why did he not make this speech during McConnell's leadership ? Was there anyone in Scotland who didnt know that McConnells war on sectariansim was merely to deflect the actions of his national party regarding another war - one which was illegitimate and proving very very unpopular in the polls.

Had Murray taken the trouble to challenge the press I think he would not have found himself isolated, but had the full backing of a united Rangers support.

Murray discovering his voice, and speaking out against McConnell, wouldn't have anything to do with the knighthood being delivered safely, would it?

This thread has certainly highlighted that before we can tackle lies originating from the taigs or the agenda-driven journalists, we first have to face down the self-loathers from within our own support.

NO SURRENDER(or is that off limits now?)

[Harry Callahan 9]

Murray discovering his voice, and speaking out against McConnell, wouldn't have anything to do with the knighthood being delivered safely, would it?

This thread has certainly highlighted that before we can tackle lies originating from the taigs or the agenda-driven journalists, we first have to face down the self-loathers from within our own support.

NO SURRENDER(or is that off limits now?)

The MAJORITY have no problem in saying it.

The minority is another question all together.

The longer we allow the minority to have such a say in our club the bigger risk we take in losing our identity.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

This thread has certainly highlighted that before we can tackle lies originating from the taigs or the agenda-driven journalists, we first have to face down the self-loathers from within our own support.

I wouldnt even bother with them CJ...Id rather leave them behind.

Im sure eventually they will find some Kum Ba ya group where they can discuss the negative affect singing Kum Ba Ya as a round is having.

[ABOD 2]

Before I joined this forum I wasn't fully aware of the massive division in our support at times.

It is fucking abysmal.

There is no division only on a forum or internet FFS

And they are mostly taigs shit stiring cunts.

[Jimenez 1]

This board would indicate there is a clash of conscience and identity to our history and what our future should be. That just isn't the case with the Rangers support, we know who we are and we are unashamed. You go to any pub on PRW, sit on any RSC on a match day and you'll find no confusions, no debate as to who we are and where we came from- Murray (the lump on our testicle) has systematically allowed outside influence to shape our club today. But for all the damage he's allowed to seep in, for all the rot he's allowed to manifest- a support that has been shaped by over 100 years of traditions will outlive anything that can be flung at them and whatever concessions its current owner will bow down to.