Lessons from the Battle of Tannenberg

[*Manticore* 1,893]

I grow my own. Don't own a car either.

Ever watched The Good Life?

I'd give that Felicity Kendal one.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

How can we effectively respond when a substantial section of our fans shame our club on an almost weekly basis and the club does next to nothing about it?

Seems to me that the real issue of the dignified silence is the clubs failure to address our own fans transgressions

I have always said that we get our own house in order, then we can be a bit louder in our protestations.

(1) A substantial section of our fans shame our club on an almost weekly basis - LIE

(2) The club does nothing about it - LIE

I look forward to your "corrections"

Oh shite, I am so fired.

On point one it clearly isnt a lie - if making a salute that looks like a nazi salute in Israel doesnt shame us then nothing will. And that also applies to what thousands of Gers fans sang in Spain. That shames me DA, obviously you have a stouter constitution than I do.

And on point no 2 - I said next to nothing, not nothing. Once again you take a quote and change it to suit, before presenting it as evidence again. So the only one lying here is you mate.

Ok - I have an hour to punt out 20 LDRINS. Leave me be!

Nothing/next to nothing a token point Bauba. I missed out a word. Though you will notice your post was quoted.

Your suggestion that a substantial section of our support shame our club almost every week...and the club does next to nothing is a complete and utter pack of lies.

[bauba30 1]

How can we effectively respond when a substantial section of our fans shame our club on an almost weekly basis and the club does next to nothing about it?

Seems to me that the real issue of the dignified silence is the clubs failure to address our own fans transgressions

I have always said that we get our own house in order, then we can be a bit louder in our protestations.

(1) A substantial section of our fans shame our club on an almost weekly basis - LIE

(2) The club does nothing about it - LIE

I look forward to your "corrections"

Oh shite, I am so fired.

On point one it clearly isnt a lie - if making a salute that looks like a nazi salute in Israel doesnt shame us then nothing will. And that also applies to what thousands of Gers fans sang in Spain. That shames me DA, obviously you have a stouter constitution than I do.

And on point no 2 - I said next to nothing, not nothing. Once again you take a quote and change it to suit, before presenting it as evidence again. So the only one lying here is you mate.

Ok - I have an hour to punt out 20 LDRINS. Leave me be!

Nothing/next to nothing a token point Bauba. I missed out a word.

Your suggestion that a substantial section of our support shame our club almost every week...and the club does next to nothing is a complete and utter pack of lies.

Ok, Final point of the day

What si substantial to you? 5000? 20000?

When it comes to the good name of my football club, substantial can mean 100 or 200 fans - it only takes 1 fan to get us into bother with UEFA so a couple hundred shaming us to me is substantial.

So you never answered my question - the Nazi-like salutes in israel and the offensive words in Spain, sung by thousands btw, they didnt make you cringe at all? You were disappointed?

And again, RFC could not prevent this from happening but I do believe we could have made a public statement by banning all supporters that we had evidence of participating. Not the ringleaders, the lot.

You seem to be trying to spread the lie that I am attacking Rangers and have been all day. When all I have said all day is that the club do do a little more in the way of punishing offenders. I acknowledged the campaigns of education that we are taking as a club, but I said that that achieves nothing short term. So I suggested that the club should take a bit more acton against the offending fans.

Now, how is that attacking the club?

Anyway, that is me for the day, I wont be logging in tonight now. Till tomorrow DA, and may your hate be diluted by a good nights sleep

[Thermopylae 15,286]

Do you not think he, along with others, have been lobbying against us at UEFA? After all Archie said that a senior figure in Scottish football had dropped us in it regarding the youtube video, so if someone in the SFA who hates us has done that, then why not journos who also hate us doing something else?

McNee actually wasn't part of the official approach to UEFA by a group of people. He's certainly had his say over the years but there were other people complicent in our censure. One of which just about to join said censors.

Guess that's who Archie was talking about, that ghastly little weasel of a man taylor :angry2: .

You know it must be great to be from another country and have your representatives at UEFA go into bat for you, rather than doing things the Scottish way where they set about you with the bat (if your post code is G51 of course).

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Till tomorrow DA, and may your hate be diluted by a good nights sleep

And he has the nerve to accuse others of personalising it.

[likeacare 9]

I grow my own. Don't own a car either.

Ever watched The Good Life?

I'd give that Felicity Kendal one.

Just the one?

And u call me a hippy?

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Ok, Final point of the day

What si substantial to you? 5000? 20000?

When it comes to the good name of my football club, substantial can mean 100 or 200 fans - it only takes 1 fan to get us into bother with UEFA so a couple hundred shaming us to me is substantial.

So you never answered my question - the Nazi-like salutes in israel and the offensive words in Spain, sung by thousands btw, they didnt make you cringe at all? You were disappointed?

And again, RFC could not prevent this from happening but I do believe we could have made a public statement by banning all supporters that we had evidence of participating. Not the ringleaders, the lot.

You seem to be trying to spread the lie that I am attacking Rangers and have been all day. When all I have said all day is that the club do do a little more in the way of punishing offenders. I acknowledged the campaigns of education that we are taking as a club, but I said that that achieves nothing short term. So I suggested that the club should take a bit more acton against the offending fans.

Now, how is that attacking the club?

Anyway, that is me for the day, I wont be logging in tonight now. Till tomorrow DA, and may your hate be diluted by a good nights sleep

I think other posters have already told you that its a very small minority....therefore your claim that this small minority is somehow "substantial" just does not hold water....even the press over dont suggest our fans are shaming our club almost every other week...and neither do the Police. Only you seem to hold that dishonour.

As for the salutes...I have already stated my opinion of these on this and on other threads. Same with TBB . Perhaps you missed the point in the original post which said....

It’s not about making bold brash gestures of defiance…some of which as seen recently…only serve to exacerbate the situation for both supporters and club

Quite simply a trawl through your posts has a recurrent theme of denigrating Rangers and their supporters. In fact reading your post in response to the Sunday Mirror article yesterday you were quite happy to suggest the author of that vile article was "misinformed" or "wrong" rather than out to demonise this club and its fans.

This club has taken substantial steps....acknowledged by most on here...with the exception of you...to eradicate some of the problems which occur within our support. Despite all the evidence which has presented to you in this thread you still seem happy to maintain the club is doing "next to nothing" to tackle this problem.

Considering you are rarely at Ibrox due to your location....considering Bears who are at Ibrox regualrly have testified that Rangers have made huge efforts....given that UEFA and other authorities have praised Rangersfor their efforts....the fact that you feel qualified to suggest othewise smacks of both ignorance and arrogance.

As for hate - Yep you are right - I detest with a vengenance those who revert to lies to demonise my club.

[bauba30 1]

Ok, Final point of the day

What si substantial to you? 5000? 20000?

When it comes to the good name of my football club, substantial can mean 100 or 200 fans - it only takes 1 fan to get us into bother with UEFA so a couple hundred shaming us to me is substantial.

So you never answered my question - the Nazi-like salutes in israel and the offensive words in Spain, sung by thousands btw, they didnt make you cringe at all? You were disappointed?

And again, RFC could not prevent this from happening but I do believe we could have made a public statement by banning all supporters that we had evidence of participating. Not the ringleaders, the lot.

You seem to be trying to spread the lie that I am attacking Rangers and have been all day. When all I have said all day is that the club do do a little more in the way of punishing offenders. I acknowledged the campaigns of education that we are taking as a club, but I said that that achieves nothing short term. So I suggested that the club should take a bit more acton against the offending fans.

Now, how is that attacking the club?

Anyway, that is me for the day, I wont be logging in tonight now. Till tomorrow DA, and may your hate be diluted by a good nights sleep

I think other posters have already told you that its a very small minority....therefore your claim that this small minority is somehow "substantial" just does not hold water....even the press over dont suggest our fans are shaming our club almost every other week...and neither do the Police. Only you seem to hold that dishonour.

As for the salutes...I have already stated my opinion of these on this and on other threads. Same with TBB . Perhaps you missed the point in the original post which said....

It’s not about making bold brash gestures of defiance…some of which as seen recently…only serve to exacerbate the situation for both supporters and club

Quite simply a trawl through your posts has a recurrent theme of denigrating Rangers and their supporters. In fact reading your post in response to the Sunday Mirror article yesterday you were quite happy to suggest the author of that vile article was "misinformed" or "wrong" rather than out to demonise this club and its fans.

This club has taken substantial steps....acknowledged by most on here...with the exception of you...to eradicate some of the problems which occur within our support. Despite all the evidence which has presented to you in this thread you still seem happy to maintain the club is doing "next to nothing" to tackle this problem.

Considering you are rarely at Ibrox due to your location....considering Bears who are at Ibrox regualrly have testified that Rangers have made huge efforts....given that UEFA and other authorities have praised Rangersfor their efforts....the fact that you feel qualified to suggest othewise smacks of both ignorance and arrogance.

As for hate - Yep you are right - I detest with a vengenance those who revert to lies to demonise my club.

Again, a trawl through my posts, a real trawl would see a person who back s Rangers 99 per cent of the time. A true fan who loves the club and the history as he sees it. But a poster who wishes the end of the old protestant ties to the club. Cant deny that, and indeed, I never have denied it. This is the one real area where the two of us clash

As to this thread, you have 2 problems, you have a problem with me saying that club has done next to nothing. Ok, fair enough. I can dig that. However cant accept you saying I am constantly attacking the club because that is in fact, a lie. Again, I think the club can do more with regards punishing the fans that transgress and shame our club.

Does that sound like an attack DA? No - don't think so

The club has taken steps DA, I acknowledge that, but they are steps that are designed to succeed over the long term. Meanwhile, real Rangers fans sit and hope that every game in Europe that the substantial minorioty dont do something else stupid and tar the rest of the Rangers support with the B word.

So the question is - what do we do now? Both as a club and also as a support? DO we stand pat and invite more scorn and hate or do we do something more?

I vote for the latter

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Its quite clear bauba we are not going to see eye to eye on a no. of things...particularly your opinion of Rangers Protestant ties....which fairs fair...you have consistently maintained and such expression by you comes as no surprise to me.

But do me a favour just so that you can satisfy and lay to rest my suspicions.

I read with interest Bauba the details of your first ever Rangers game and also your favourite live game. I attended both those matches.

At the JG testimonial there was a significant song....a real eye opener.... sung that day by the Rangers support....if it was your first ever Rangers game Im quite sure you will have noticed it.

Can you tell me what it was ?

[bauba30 1]

Its quite clear bauba we are not going to see eye to eye on a no. of things...particularly your opinion of Rangers Protestant ties....which fairs fair...you have consistently maintained and such expression by you comes as no surprise to me.

But do me a favour just so that you can satisfy and lay to rest my suspicions.

I read with interest Bauba the details of your first ever Rangers game and also your favourite live game. I attended both those matches.

At the JG testimonial there was a significant song....a real eye opener.... sung that day by the Rangers support....if it was your first ever Rangers game Im quite sure you will have noticed it.

Can you tell me what it was ?

DA - I was 5 and a half years old - I wasn't interested in the singing, only the football - all my memories about that game are football related

I do remember that DJ scored in the 1st minute though, is that good enough?

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Its quite clear bauba we are not going to see eye to eye on a no. of things...particularly your opinion of Rangers Protestant ties....which fairs fair...you have consistently maintained and such expression by you comes as no surprise to me.

But do me a favour just so that you can satisfy and lay to rest my suspicions.

I read with interest Bauba the details of your first ever Rangers game and also your favourite live game. I attended both those matches.

At the JG testimonial there was a significant song....a real eye opener.... sung that day by the Rangers support....if it was your first ever Rangers game Im quite sure you will have noticed it.

Can you tell me what it was ?

DA - I was 5 and a half years old - I wasn't interested in the singing, only the football - all my memories about that game are football related

I do remember that DJ scored in the 1st minute though, is that good enough?

Aye but I bet you dont remember JG's goal was a mile offside. :bouncy:

[bauba30 1]

Its quite clear bauba we are not going to see eye to eye on a no. of things...particularly your opinion of Rangers Protestant ties....which fairs fair...you have consistently maintained and such expression by you comes as no surprise to me.

But do me a favour just so that you can satisfy and lay to rest my suspicions.

I read with interest Bauba the details of your first ever Rangers game and also your favourite live game. I attended both those matches.

At the JG testimonial there was a significant song....a real eye opener.... sung that day by the Rangers support....if it was your first ever Rangers game Im quite sure you will have noticed it.

Can you tell me what it was ?

DA - I was 5 and a half years old - I wasn't interested in the singing, only the football - all my memories about that game are football related

I do remember that DJ scored in the 1st minute though, is that good enough?

Aye but I bet you dont remember JG's goal was a mile offside. :bouncy:

You are right - I dont - then again, some questionable goals have been scored in testimonials - I seem to remember Tam Forsyth waltzing though the entire Swansea defence to score in his