Who is to blame for the financial mess we are in?

[minstral 5,375]

Answer is quite simple guys................. We caused this. The fans had a share issue offered, the chance to do, way back then what the RST are trying now. To raise £20m for SDM to keep the club financially stable. How much did we raise??

NOTHING!! That was the point SDM said, F@ck em!!!

Do I blame him?? No. A share issue now?? pffft....... lock the stable door springs to mind. Let me tell you this Loyal Supporters, any takeover will cost US plenty.

Why should the fans have to put money in, Murray is supposed to be a top business man and should have known better.

[DoobyDoo 0]

Why should the fans have to put money in, Murray is supposed to be a top business man and should have known better.

If he was that good a business man, when we were watchin Gazza, Laudrup, Boli, Numan, Van Bronkhorst he would have been charging £750 a head for a season ticket to pay their wages.

WE ARE THE CLUB!!

No fans No club - end of. Time we woke up and gave ourselves a shake here.

very sad bear!!!

[gunslinger 270]

Shit load? We got robbed for most of them!

I did mention Euro runs mate.

Its £3m according to the annual financial results. Where are you getting the extra £1.2m?

I dont know what their profit is for merchandising, according to their accounts, they raked in £15m and that was a year with no Euro football and no trophies.

He still spent it, that was my point, he chose how it would be spent, has he spent wisely over his 4 years? I would have to say no.

cuellar, hutton wilson all sold for large sums as well as many many smaller sales.

we get 3 million a year. but we also got 18 million up front which is in a seperate account and put into the club at 1.2 million a year.

they dont make much from a turnover of 15 million. if its more than 3 million a year it would be stunning.

has he spent wisely over 3 years. i would say overwhelmingly yes. hardly a failure and even those are understandable.

lafferty is one but he has contributed some and is still young.

webster sure but you cant blame smith for that.

[minstral 5,375]

If he was that good a business man, when we were watchin Gazza, Laudrup, Boli, Numan, Van Bronkhorst he would have been charging £750 a head for a season ticket to pay their wages.

WE ARE THE CLUB!!

No fans No club - end of. Time we woke up and gave ourselves a shake here.

very sad bear!!!

Joe Lewis, Enic and Dave King, gave him plenty of money.

[DoobyDoo 0]

Joe Lewis, Enic and Dave King, gave him plenty of money.

and you see the mess we are in?? They bought shares. Worthless, shares.

Fans need to buy the club. We need to raise the £35m or unfortunately, we could last a year, maybe two.

Are we fans?? The club means more to me.

[minstral 5,375]

and you see the mess we are in?? They bought shares. Worthless, shares.

Fans need to buy the club. We need to raise the £35m or unfortunately, we could last a year, maybe two.

Are we fans?? The club means more to me.

Do you not think that the fans put enough money into the club.

[DoobyDoo 0]

We certainly do minstral, but as we see it's not enough to keep our club, unless something changes in the running of our club, we are facing financial ruin. We have two choices. Raise the money to take the club from this horrible situation, or not take up our season tickets for next year and allow the recievers to take over.

We have heard all these stories of Dave King, Doogie Park, Paul Murray, Ellis, Whyte and the list is endless. Waitin till the ship sinks, so they can get in for nothing and allow us to take the penalty point deduction, but wisely stick SDM with his debt.

Win for the fans and the players, bad for our reputation and standing in the football community.

No news is good news, but something in the back of my head just doesnt like this takeover, SDM has a very bad habit of messing us over.

Could the "Supporters Who Have" help save our club??

Thats all I was implying mate.

[nvager 498]

Someone said Jan 24th will be a big day for Rangers - I hope he is correct. We NEED some good news quickly.

[Polo 1,439]

Someone said Jan 24th will be a big day for Rangers - I hope he is correct. We NEED some good news quickly.

Who said that mate?

[nvager 498]

Just got back from my day and night out in Edinburgh/Tynecastle and I kid you not? heard it from two different sources one connected to Ibrox and one about as connected as Derek Acorra to us. Monday 24Th is going to be a big day for Rangers and (don't shoot the messenger).........another 48hrs another 48hrs another, actually it's only one 48hrs i was trying that for dramatic effect like the enemy within the enemy within.

Hope you are not just spouting off mate.

[SirWalterSmithLegend 206]

Answer is quite simple guys................. We caused this. The fans had a share issue offered, the chance to do, way back then what the RST are trying now. To raise £20m for SDM to keep the club financially stable. How much did we raise??

NOTHING!! That was the point SDM said, F@ck em!!!

Do I blame him?? No. A share issue now?? pffft....... lock the stable door springs to mind. Let me tell you this Loyal Supporters, any takeover will cost US plenty.

Nonsense, that does not account for the gross mismanagement of our financial affairs off the field.

The only thing we, as fans, are guilty of is still ploughing our money into a regime which was pissing it up against a wall. And were still doing it.

[SirWalterSmithLegend 206]

cuellar, hutton wilson all sold for large sums as well as many many smaller sales.

we get 3 million a year. but we also got 18 million up front which is in a seperate account and put into the club at 1.2 million a year.

they dont make much from a turnover of 15 million. if its more than 3 million a year it would be stunning.

has he spent wisely over 3 years. i would say overwhelmingly yes. hardly a failure and even those are understandable.

lafferty is one but he has contributed some and is still young.

webster sure but you cant blame smith for that.

2, maybe 3 biggies. The rest were as ai said, robbery! IMO.

Murray told us he got that £18m up front as a lump sum.

Im guessing it must, i cant swallow it taking £12m to run 16 shops.

I dont know, i would have to look at it again, i dont have time just now, im off to work now, maybe later GS.

[brooon29 0]

Advocatt also comes into this also. I know the argument if Murray who signs the cheques etc however there can be no modern manager who is not fully aware as to the clubs financials

uote name='djw1992' timestamp='1295730515' post='1058658375']

There are a number of possible 'blamees'.

SDM: For not having enough patience with the Le Guen experiment, for giving Walter Smith more money to spend that could be afforded.

Bain: For not negotiating better contracts (with sponsors as well as players).

Walter Smith: For making a number of poor, short term fix signings, for failing to get his team to beat Kaunas.

The bank: For not keeping a closer eye on our spending, thus allowing us to get into this mess.

I'm not saying these are the exact reasons why, but they are potential ones.

[rangers_1873 1]

we need some answers from the bank and murray now

[gunslinger 270]

2, maybe 3 biggies. The rest were as ai said, robbery! IMO.

Murray told us he got that £18m up front as a lump sum.

Im guessing it must, i cant swallow it taking £12m to run 16 shops.

I dont know, i would have to look at it again, i dont have time just now, im off to work now, maybe later GS.

staff costs

rates

rent

stock costs

if they ate making more than a few million it will be on e of the best run retail operations in the world.

we made a profit of around 4 million on turnover of 22 million in the last set of accounts that detailed these things from our shops

[BILLYSNOVO 5]

On a serious note here,say we win the league this season with a seriously threadbare squad we are not guaranteed Champions league football.

Would it really be worthwhile for the club to do a Dundee? go into administration to wipe the debt and any possible tax debt,take a 10 - 15 point deduction (probably conceding the championship for 1 season) and get a new backer/s to take the club forward with a clean slate?

[Briton 394]

What a daft question. Obviously it's Murray. The buck stops at the top.

[SirWalterSmithLegend 206]

staff costs

rates

rent

stock costs

if they ate making more than a few million it will be on e of the best run retail operations in the world.

we made a profit of around 4 million on turnover of 22 million in the last set of accounts that detailed these things from our shops

Just in mate,

Yeah i doubt all those costs amount to anywhere near £12m a year for 16 shops.

Where is that 22 million coming from? What is that for?

[JM1872 3,776]

Just got back from my day and night out in Edinburgh/Tynecastle and I kid you not? heard it from two different sources one connected to Ibrox and one about as connected as Derek Acorra to us. Monday 24Th is going to be a big day for Rangers and (don't shoot the messenger).........another 48hrs another 48hrs another, actually it's only one 48hrs i was trying that for dramatic effect like the enemy within the enemy within.

would you be kind enough to share with your fellow bears what you know ?

[Allanger 625]

Murray is the main reason we are in this mess.Much of Murray's business success has been entrepreneurial and he rode it's luck through a period of huge economic growth. A bit like the buy to let housing market where you use one houses capital gain to finance your next purchase. This last twentyfive years has bred businessmen who have worked this method along with the banks agreement and assistance. This era has gone. You could approach the banks nowadays with an almost foolproof business idea and they will still not back you.This is where Murray stands now. The bank controls the Murray empire, which includes us, but he can no longer work his magic and raise millions of pounds of credit based on very little tangible assets. This is also the problem with a potential buyer. The bank will not even approve a leveraged buyout without a major input of the buyers cash. I can assure you there are not many multi millionaires who will buy a business/company using/gambling their own cash.

Where does that leave us then? Sadly it leaves us almost unsellable unless we can attract a philanthropic sugar daddy.

Even if we were bought over tomorrow there is no way that we will be in a position to plunder the transfer market. For better or worse we will be run as a tight ship which is still dependant on the banks backing

[caseyjones 3,009]

Murray is the main reason we are in this mess.Much of Murray's business success has been entrepreneurial and he rode it's luck through a period of huge economic growth. A bit like the buy to let housing market where you use one houses capital gain to finance your next purchase. This last twentyfive years has bred businessmen who have worked this method along with the banks agreement and assistance. This era has gone. You could approach the banks nowadays with an almost foolproof business idea and they will still not back you.This is where Murray stands now. The bank controls the Murray empire, which includes us, but he can no longer work his magic and raise millions of pounds of credit based on very little tangible assets. This is also the problem with a potential buyer. The bank will not even approve a leveraged buyout without a major input of the buyers cash. I can assure you there are not many multi millionaires who will buy a business/company using/gambling their own cash.

Where does that leave us then? Sadly it leaves us almost unsellable unless we can attract a philanthropic sugar daddy.

Even if we were bought over tomorrow there is no way that we will be in a position to plunder the transfer market. For better or worse we will be run as a tight ship which is still dependant on the banks backing

Superb post!

If any sugar daddy was going to ride to our rescue, they would have done so by now. If any takeover ever materialises it is going to be a huge anti-climax for many of our fans who are expecting Man City style transfers.

[ronniemca 479]

i remember around the time of slippery dave's " i'll spend a tenner for every fiver" statement, the then celtic chairman said rangers were a "house built on sand". i thought at the time jealous taig bastard but how right he was

[Brubear 2,955]

Shit load? We got robbed for most of them!

I did mention Euro runs mate.

Its £3m according to the annual financial results. Where are you getting the extra £1.2m?

I dont know what their profit is for merchandising, according to their accounts, they raked in £15m and that was a year with no Euro football and no trophies.

He still spent it, that was my point, he chose how it would be spent, has he spent wisely over his 4 years? I would have to say no.

£15m on merchandising in timmy's accounts is income not profit. As we have an "outsourced" activity we only show the profit in our accounts. This is the main reason timmy always appear to have a significantly higher turnover than us when you see football clubs ranked on basis of turnover. I would also expect timmy's profit on merchandising to be between 3m and 4m.

[jimgers 565]

Hope you are not just spouting off mate.

I heard that rumour yesterday, but thought it was the usual pish. But now I'm not to certain as there is an ongoing argument about an similar story about Monday on another forum (Bluenose.co). Martin Bain is being talk about as an possible credible takeover source?? like i say don't shoot the messenger here.

[SirWalterSmithLegend 206]

Brubear, i do know that mate, i have already said that myself on this thread numerous occassions.

Im just finding it very hard to accept that it costs £12m or more to run 16 club shops.

They must make more profit than £3m or £4m. Surely.

I cant see it being less than us if im honest, i would still much rather have our club shops back, for that extra bit of revenue and the public advertisement of actually having our own shops.

JJB dont stock any more Rangers stuff than Celtic stuff, in fact some shops actually have more Celtic gear in them than ours. Their strip can also be bought from almost any major sports store in the world while ours cannot, that is a huge disadvantage and something that coudl be fixed if we upgraded to Nike or Adidas. Umbro doesnt give us the same.....i dont know the word......as Nike or Adidas would.