Meeting of Rangers Supporters Clubs and Organisations

[Guest]

The following is a press release related to a meeting held on Sunday 1st of May with supporter representation from many different Rangers supporters groups:

There was a meeting held today at Ibrox of over 150 supporters representing over 80 Rangers Supporters Clubs from all over the world, plus board members of The Rangers Assembly, The Rangers Supporters Trust, and The Rangers Supporters Association, and also representatives of The Blue Order, several fans forums, and the Rangers fans liaison officer Jim Hannah.

There were discussions regarding the sectarian singing problem amongst a minority of supporters at our games and how we can try to eradicate this by more stringent self-policing and making the offending supporters know that this is unacceptable at our club, and that we want to promote a more positive image and atmosphere at our matches.

It was agreed that any songs with references to Sectarian chanting as outlined by the Police and the Courts must go now and remain gone. We accepted that there is still a problem amongst a minority of our support, and while we are certainly not the only club with an offensive singing problem, we are the only ones being highlighted at present and whilst we need to clean up our own act we insist all supports must be treated the same.

It was also discussed and agreed that we need to be far more resourceful in presenting a fairer portrayal of Rangers and Rangers fans in the media, and while it is clear that there is an agenda against us and us alone, but we have not done anything about it for far too long. To this regard we have already had meetings with prominent officials from Strathclyde Police and experts in professional fields relevant to us to assist us with our intentions to create a more level playing field within the law for Rangers supporters. The time for this sleeping giant of a support to sit idly by while our enemies politicise everything we do without fear of being challenged or reciprocal action being taken is over.

The message from the representatives at the meeting was unanimously supportive, and we are confident that these messages can be taken back to the Supporters Clubs worldwide, and amongst the Supporters groups and forums, and that we can unite as one to try to eradicate the minority who persist in sectarian and offensive singing, but also challenge and expect all other club’s supporters to do the same, and we will ask the Police and the Procurator Fiscal to be vigilant with Sectarian and offensive singing from all clubs to help us to help them create an atmosphere and society where we can all freely enjoy going to the football without prejudice.

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[BelgradeBear 27]

"It was agreed that any songs with references to Sectarian chanting as outlined by the Police and the Courts must go now and remain gone." And those songs are? And will there only be a list of Rangers songs?

[thiepvalwood 33]

As i posted elsewhere and been allowed access to this forum i will post again...

This is a soundbite worthy of Martin Bain. Why not have:

"We welcome a list banned phrases, sayings, statements and songs either from either UEFA or Strathclyde Police with the reasoning why (and allow us to reason if we disagree), which we will then disseminate amongst our respective supporters clubs and forums and self police to the fullest degree of our capability"

While i am thankful some have taken the lead on pulling this type of meeting together i fear that we are in for very much of the same as if the club themselves had ran with this meeting.

Is the ego and appeasement of one or two from the top table clouding those who were present who have the drive and determination to defend our traditions?

Do we welcome the chase or simply happy to be chased in 2011?

[FlippinEck 3,750]

"It was agreed that any songs with references to Sectarian chanting as outlined by the Police and the Courts must go now and remain gone." And those songs are? And will there only be a list of Rangers songs?

The chief superintendent said yesterday: "It's not for us to publish a list of banned songs. Some of them are instantly recognisable.

"If you sing the Billy Boys or the Famine Song, we'll arrest you.

"If you sing the Boys Of The Old Brigade, we'll arrest you and there have been convictions in court before where that song is concerned.

"If you sing a pop song like Simply The Best, but insert 'F*** the Pope and the IRA' in the middle of it, we'll arrest you for that as well.

"If you sing anything that's derisory about the Pope or the Queen, we'll consider that an arrestable offence."

[RFC55 110,283]

Tbh i was hoping for a more detailed release. That more or less keeps it as it is at the moment. No one has a scoobie what is and isnt acceptable

[RFC55 110,283]

The chief superintendent said yesterday: "It's not for us to publish a list of banned songs. Some of them are instantly recognisable.

"If you sing the Billy Boys or the Famine Song, we'll arrest you.

"If you sing the Boys Of The Old Brigade, we'll arrest you and there have been convictions in court before where that song is concerned.

"If you sing a pop song like Simply The Best, but insert 'F*** the Pope and the IRA' in the middle of it, we'll arrest you for that as well.

"If you sing anything that's derisory about the Pope or the Queen, we'll consider that an arrestable offence."

Why would shouting Fuck the IRA land you in trouble?

Also going by the screws there TBB and TFs will see you jailed along with BOTB. What about the Celtic Sympthony song which includes oooh ah up the ra? What about their roll of honour song which is glorifying terrorists?

Its still too hard for us to tell what is fine and what isnt imo.

[DietofWorms 2,067]

So, finally!.. I've got a list of the songs that I'm now going to 'self police'.......*waits for list*

[Adoniram 1,919]

Poor statement in my opinion and does nothing but admit to the world we have a problem.

And i have to have grave reservations about any group a certain person is involved in and speaking on behalf of.

[bluepeter 5,627]

"It was agreed that any songs with references to Sectarian chanting as outlined by the Police and the Courts must go now and remain gone." And those songs are? And will there only be a list of Rangers songs?

If these songs with reference to sectarian chanting have been "outlined by the Police and the Courts," what are they? I think it'a fair to say TBB and The Famine Song are included. We drop the FTPs, what about "We Are Rangers, Super Rangers?" I'd imagine that can go as well.

So, no "fenians" and no "FTPs" as well as no Famine Song, is that it? Genuine question. Have any other songs or words been "outlined by the Police and the Courts?"

[TheLawMan 6,240]

Why would shouting Fuck the IRA land you in trouble?

Also going by the screws there TBB and TFs will see you jailed along with BOTB. What about the Celtic Sympthony song which includes oooh ah up the ra? What about their roll of honour song which is glorifying terrorists?

Its still too hard for us to tell what is fine and what isnt imo.

I think it was more the "Pope" part that was arrestable than the "IRA" part but he was just quoting the whole line that gets sung. And yes "up the RA" is arrestable.

Clearly the police cant give an exact list, because then some silly bugger will take another song thats not on the list, add an extra line which is offensive, then turn round and say "Ah but its not on the list"

As for what the list would kinda look like then:

Dont sing Fenian

Dont sing FTP or about the Pope

Dont sing Famine Song

Dont sing about the UVF or YCV

That would be a good starting point for what has been suggested at this meeting.

[DutchBlueGuard 18]

was there any talk of changing the words to TBB? or have we just chucked the song completely?

[Adoniram 1,919]

If these songs with reference to sectarian chanting have been "outlined by the Police and the Courts," what are they? I think it'a fair to say TBB and The Famine Song are included. We drop the FTPs, what about "We Are Rangers, Super Rangers?" I'd imagine that can go as well.

So, no "fenians" and no "FTPs" as well as no Famine Song, is that it? Genuine question. Have any other songs or words been "outlined by the Police and the Courts?"

No one will publish the list...the authorities or the group who had the meeting.

I listened to Derry's Wall's dying a death and it was obvious some of our fans were too scared to sing it as they were perhaps unsure if it was safe to do so.

I also noticed that FARE informed UEFA that "Build My Gallows" was Sectarian but that Rangers successfully argued this point at the hearing.

So if we take the above to be a fair assessment why the hell is no one prepared to issue a list of banned songs?

I'll tell you why not and this is from a Police and Authorities point of view.

The more DELIBERATE CONFUSION there is on this matter then the more chance of supporters not singing certain songs for fear of arrest and that includes the two i mention above.

[minstral 5,375]

What about our enemies in the press and media, was nothing said about them.

[DietofWorms 2,067]

If these songs with reference to sectarian chanting have been "outlined by the Police and the Courts," what are they? I think it'a fair to say TBB and The Famine Song are included. We drop the FTPs, what about "We Are Rangers, Super Rangers?" I'd imagine that can go as well.

So, no "fenians" and no "FTPs" as well as no Famine Song, is that it? Genuine question. Have any other songs or words been "outlined by the Police and the Courts?"

This, for me, is the issue. That the word 'songs' gets used when more often than not it's the add ons.

[bluepeter 5,627]

I think it was more the "Pope" part that was arrestable than the "IRA" part but he was just quoting the whole line that gets sung. And yes "up the RA" is arrestable.

Clearly the police cant give an exact list, because then some silly bugger will take another song thats not on the list, add an extra line which is offensive, then turn round and say "Ah but its not on the list"

As for what the list would kinda look like then:

Dont sing Fenian

Dont sing FTP or about the Pope

Dont sing Famine Song

Dont sing about the UVF or YCV

That would be a good starting point for what has been suggested at this meeting.

Do you know what? If we got that list coupled with a list of songs other clubs couldn't sing (no IRA, no "soon there'll be no protestants at all," no "h***" for example) then I think everyone could accept it and move on. It's the reluctance to do so that causes the confusion.

Clearly there is something in the argument that we could invent a new song if they published a song list, but a list which included songs and terms which are not allowed should stop this.

Adoniram said:

The more DELIBERATE CONFUSION there is on this matter then the more chance of supporters not singing certain songs for fear of arrest and that includes the two i mention above.

I think there is also something in this, but I'd add that it's easy for the police to diffuse a situation (from their perspective) by removing people for "sectarianism" if there is no definitive list to go on. They can lift someone they believe to be instigating some trouble on a trumped up charge and nobody can argue if the charge is not clearly defined.

[RFC55 110,283]

Do you know what? If we got that list coupled with a list of songs other clubs couldn't sing (no IRA, no "soon there'll be no protestants at all," no "h***" for example) then I think everyone could accept it and move on. It's the reluctance to do so that causes the confusion.

Clearly there is something in the argument that we could invent a new song if they published a song list, but a list which included songs and terms which are not allowed should stop this.

Adoniram said:

I think there is also something in this, but I'd add that it's easy for the police to diffuse a situation (from their perspective) by removing people for "sectarianism" if there is no definitive list to go on. They can lift someone they believe to be instigating some trouble on a trumped up charge and nobody can argue if the charge is not clearly defined.

Where does the list end though BP? Seriously mate? We hate Jimmy Hill hes a poof would need to go. Singing if you hate (insert name) would have to go. You would end up with happy clappers going to the football and all the big baddies in the boozer. Tbh mate i have made my point on here many a time, i love singing etc and cant keep quiet at games which makes going to Ibrox very hard compared to away games.

[TheLawMan 6,240]

Do you know what? If we got that list coupled with a list of songs other clubs couldn't sing (no IRA, no "soon there'll be no protestants at all," no "h***" for example) then I think everyone could accept it and move on. It's the reluctance to do so that causes the confusion.

Clearly there is something in the argument that we could invent a new song if they published a song list, but a list which included songs and terms which are not allowed should stop this.

Adoniram said:

I think there is also something in this, but I'd add that it's easy for the police to diffuse a situation (from their perspective) by removing people for "sectarianism" if there is no definitive list to go on. They can lift someone they believe to be instigating some trouble on a trumped up charge and nobody can argue if the charge is not clearly defined.

Or alternatively, the newly formed Blue Order and Union Bears singing section, along with the club(whom i know to be a willing partner in this) write down all the songs they are going to sing and seek 100% clarification these are ok with the Police. Every word.

Any new songs that we make up throughout the season tend to be about players or current affairs and in 99 times out of 100 are not offensive so it wouldnt stop the guys being creative.

Then we sing without fear and we allow all and sundry to complain about us before we crank up the heat on others.

[TheLawMan 6,240]

Where does the list end though BP? Seriously mate? We hate Jimmy Hill hes a poof would need to go. Singing if you hate (insert name) would have to go. You would end up with happy clappers going to the football and all the big baddies in the boozer. Tbh mate i have made my point on here many a time, i love singing etc and cant keep quiet at games which makes going to Ibrox very hard compared to away games.

Jimmy Hill one - Yes. Has to go.

Hate Glasgow Celtic clap your hands - I think the police would approve or certainly confirm you couldnt be arrested.

[DietofWorms 2,067]

Where does the list end though BP? Seriously mate? We hate Jimmy Hill hes a poof would need to go. Singing if you hate (insert name) would have to go. You would end up with happy clappers going to the football and all the big baddies in the boozer. Tbh mate i have made my point on here many a time, i love singing etc and cant keep quiet at games which makes going to Ibrox very hard compared to away games.

Unfortunately yes. We didn't start this hysterical pish but what has been proven is that there is now no room for humour or irony. If you say it, you mean it, apparently.

[RFC55 110,283]

Jimmy Hill one - Yes. Has to go.

Hate Glasgow Celtic clap your hands - I think the police would approve or certainly confirm you couldnt be arrested.

Apparently if someone is offended by it you could be done.

Would you not agree though that wether Jimmy Hill is a poof or someone who shags cats that chants are funny and should be taken in jest?

[RFC55 110,283]

Unfortunately yes. We didn't start this hysterical pish but what has been proven is that there is now no room for humour or irony. If you say it, you mean it, apparently.

Thats the problem right there. Many people have sung songs that you think to yourself ooooooo thats a bit low but do we mean it? When singing TBB i never once remember saying to myself i wish this blood im singing about was real blood.

PS i am not saying TBB made me go oooooo thats a bit low

[TheLawMan 6,240]

Apparently if someone is offended by it you could be done.

Would you not agree though that wether Jimmy Hill is a poof or someone who shags cats that chants are funny and should be taken in jest?

Of course i think they are funny and of course i think they should be taken in jest mate. But we are where we are.

We now live in a world where kids cant sing "baa baa black sheep" at school. We live in a time where a whole new business was invented just so teachers could call something a "white board" without fear of causing offence.

Personally, i would shoot the whole PC brigade but its not going to change.

So on that basis, lets get a list together, get it approved, then sing without fear.

On a personal note, i would love to hear only Rangers songs for 90 minutes.

Rangers, our players, our founders. Nothing about the other mob at all.

[boss 1,941]

It's excellent that so many of the Rangers supporters clubs and organisations have got together again. That is progress.

However, the statement released is particularly underwhelming and, in the absence of more detailed advice, the vagueness regarding what can and can't be sung is unhelpful and rather disappointing.

Why not say, for example only: "No fenian, no FTP, no TBB, no WDYGH, no NPOR. We'll update the list regularly but it's a start and supporters should follow it in spirit as well as literally."

Why is everyone, from the Club, to the police, to the SFA, to UEFA, to the supporters groups seemingly unable or unwilling to give such clear, definitive advice?

[bouncy 315]

my season ticket couldnt be any further in the bin!!!

[Orangeclement 582]

For grown men we don't half use the childish excuse eh , but they do/did it .

Celtic covered up child abuse , does that make it ok for us to do it ?

no i should think fucking not , sort our house then go for the neighbours ( i realise some see this as some sort of admission of guilt but we can challenge the rulings after doing as they ask and the songs can return if we win etc etc )