First tier tax tribunial

[iain1712 336]

No links or quotes whatsoever this is just my opinion.

With the formation of the new company to run rangers football team now looking inevitable, another piece of the jigsaw has fallen into place.

As we have been told the tax case against us was a 'test' case for hmrc in their fight to clamp down on tax avoidance and subsequently if they won they were moving onto a list of targets including major premiership sides in england.

Now the way I see this with the decision being well overdue is that we have won and the hmrc not wanting it

put on record as such, are somehow delaying this announcement until the 'oldco' is liquidated then all court proceedings would be null and void as one of the parties has ceased to exist therefore no case and no decision has to be put on public record.

This enables them to still try a claim against somebody else without the handicap of a court defeat setting a

precedent against them.

[graeme_4 34,675]

Now the way I see this with the decision being well overdue is that we have won and the hmrc not wanting it

put on record as such, are somehow delaying this announcement until the 'oldco' is liquidated then all court proceedings would be null and void as one of the parties has ceased to exist therefore no case and no decision has to be put on public record.

This enables them to still try a claim against somebody else without the handicap of a court defeat setting a

precedent against them.

Wishful thinking. Hope you are correct, but very much a hopefully 'theory' with no evidence.

[adam2102 578]

No links or quotes whatsoever this is just my opinion.

With the formation of the new company to run rangers football team now looking inevitable, another piece of the jigsaw has fallen into place.

As we have been told the tax case against us was a 'test' case for hmrc in their fight to clamp down on tax avoidance and subsequently if they won they were moving onto a list of targets including major premiership sides in england.

Now the way I see this with the decision being well overdue is that we have won and the hmrc not wanting it

put on record as such, are somehow delaying this announcement until the 'oldco' is liquidated then all court proceedings would be null and void as one of the parties has ceased to exist therefore no case and no decision has to be put on public record.

This enables them to still try a claim against somebody else without the handicap of a court defeat setting a

precedent against them.

as soon as people started talking about newcos this is exactly what i thought.

[Polo 1,433]

No links or quotes whatsoever this is just my opinion.

With the formation of the new company to run rangers football team now looking inevitable, another piece of the jigsaw has fallen into place.

As we have been told the tax case against us was a 'test' case for hmrc in their fight to clamp down on tax avoidance and subsequently if they won they were moving onto a list of targets including major premiership sides in england.

Now the way I see this with the decision being well overdue is that we have won and the hmrc not wanting it

put on record as such, are somehow delaying this announcement until the 'oldco' is liquidated then all court proceedings would be null and void as one of the parties has ceased to exist therefore no case and no decision has to be put on public record.

This enables them to still try a claim against somebody else without the handicap of a court defeat setting a

precedent against them.

HMRC won't be able to raise a new claim against newco in respect of the oldco case so it's not of much importance.

[Sobatai 70]

HMRC won't be able to raise a new claim against newco in respect of the oldco case so it's not of much importance.

As far as Rangers is concerned, although it could cause some sweaty palms at other clubs if they've used EBTs similarly ... wasn't it always the argument here that Rangers was a "test case"?

[will_1974 204]

No links or quotes whatsoever this is just my opinion.

With the formation of the new company to run rangers football team now looking inevitable, another piece of the jigsaw has fallen into place.

As we have been told the tax case against us was a 'test' case for hmrc in their fight to clamp down on tax avoidance and subsequently if they won they were moving onto a list of targets including major premiership sides in england.

Now the way I see this with the decision being well overdue is that we have won and the hmrc not wanting it

put on record as such, are somehow delaying this announcement until the 'oldco' is liquidated then all court proceedings would be null and void as one of the parties has ceased to exist therefore no case and no decision has to be put on public record.

This enables them to still try a claim against somebody else without the handicap of a court defeat setting a

precedent against them.

Don't think so as the case involves a number of Murrays companies not just rangers

[Weird_Beard 99]

It's irrelevant whether we have won it or not purely from a financial point of view would it not be. If we lose it the chances of a CVA are practically zilch but Rangers 1872 will be liquidated. Incubator FC would have purchased the intellectual property by then and all creditors jog on.

[3Proddie1690 132]

OMG don't start this rumour... Timothy has enough on his hands today, we could be looking at mass suicides up down the land

[Polo 1,433]

As far as Rangers is concerned, although it could cause some sweaty palms at other clubs if they've used EBTs similarly ... wasn't it always the argument here that Rangers was a "test case"?

I think so. Don't know about the detail of the case against us but was it not that we didn't administer the scheme by the letter of the law? Other clubs that didn't do it by the letter of the law would be in trouble if we lost though, yep.

Looking forward to the day HMRC take down the tarriers, by which time the SPL (after recent events) will have detailed rules in place as to how clubs / newcos are punished

[RWM1216 20]

Don't think so as the case involves a number of Murrays companies not just rangers

I've wondered about this - just how liable are Rangers in all of this. From the limited amount I've read, is it possible that MIH are more liable than Rangers- especially if the dual contract issue cannot be proved?

Also, haven't a number of high profile players from that era agreed to have their bank accounts audited? If there is a more informed Bear out there, I'd be glad to know more about the "in's" and "out's". Cheers!

[iain1712 336]

It's irrelevant whether we have won it or not purely from a financial point of view would it not be. If we lose it the chances of a CVA are practically zilch but Rangers 1872 will be liquidated. Incubator FC would have purchased the intellectual property by then and all creditors jog on.

yes totally understand mate but I'm more looking to the point that we can shoot down the taigs ridiculous claims about us cheating and their ludicrous ideas that they can rewrite history and fine us titles.

I know the financial side of it is out the window now.

[Sobatai 70]

I think so. Don't know about the detail of the case against us but was it not that we didn't administer the scheme by the letter of the law? Other clubs that didn't do it by the letter of the law would be in trouble if we lost though, yep.

I think the gist of the case was that EBTs are discretionary, but that Rangers always paid and thus it was actually part of a salary disguised as a discretionary payment. It appears all Maxi-Murray had to do was not pay it a few times a year and it would've been okay. But that is just my understanding of the situation.

[Polo 1,433]

I think the gist of the case was that EBTs are discretionary, but that Rangers always paid and thus it was actually part of a salary disguised as a discretionary payment. It appears all Maxi-Murray had to do was not pay it a few times a year and it would've been okay. But that is just my understanding of the situation.

Ah well, at least all of our problems are coming to a head and it looks like we'll be back on the straight and narrow relatively soon.

[Gillete 1,338]

Wonder what the tax case prick will look into now

[Sobatai 70]

Ah well, at least all of our problems are coming to a head and it looks like we'll be back on the straight and narrow relatively soon.

Long, hard road ahead, I think. But it seems the crisis will have passed shortly.

[nelsonRFC82 305]

I highly doubt we could win the case and HMRC block it becoming public knowledge. Surely neither party know until the judgement is passed, and that would have to be a matter of public record.

If HMRC thought it was going to go against them and didn't want to lose the test case, then maybe they cut a deal with Gers to put the case on hold. The benefit to HMRC being they can still argue the test case against someone else, the benefit to Gers may be in that it aids CVA negotiation with HMRC? In honour of our prospective new American owner, I will describe that as a guess from out of left field though!

[Weird_Beard 99]

yes totally understand mate but I'm more looking to the point that we can shoot down the taigs ridiculous claims about us cheating and their ludicrous ideas that they can rewrite history and fine us titles.

I know the financial side of it is out the window now.

That's why I said from a financial view point and it would be nice to win the case to defend our history. If we lose however and and a CVA can't be done it will be Rangers 1872 that's liable for penalties for any wrong doing and Incubator FC will have purchased the intellectual property by that time aswell leaving us liable for nothing. If that makes any sense.

[bluemc 305]

Wonder what the tax case prick will look into now

His sisters pants

[Sobatai 70]

Even if Rangers "won" at the Tribunal, the stated position of HMRC was that it would appeal and appeal until all avenues were exhausted.

[Blue Atheist 178]

I just think its so complicated that a decision has still not been made.

Irrelevant now, just like the two seasons worth of work from the Tax Case blog, lol.

[JTP 221]

Even if Rangers "won" at the Tribunal, the stated position of HMRC was that it would appeal and appeal until all avenues were exhausted.

Who told us this

[wutangster 38]

Wonder what the tax case prick will look into now

He will no dought go back on the dole