Daily rheb EBT tweet.

[ray 105]

The FTTT has been left to die a very quiet death, a decision serves no purpose for HMRC.

[North Rd 2,860]

The FTTT has been left to die a very quiet death, a decision serves no purpose for HMRC.

Mate, heard 10th August is when we will know our fate on EBT's

[rumours-bar-watp 8]

You believe this?

[ray 105]

Mate, heard 10th August is when we will know our fate on EBT's

The fate has been decided, oldco will be liquidated all oldco HMRC accounts are closed HMRC will pursue individuals if they can, end of.

[trueblueal 2,117]

There is a circumvention of the due process by the SFA here yet again. Just like the decision to promote Dundee was carved up in a back room so has our guilt been decided. Reagan must go he's nothing more than a dictator and who one who sleeps in his Celtic top at that.

[Mikhailichenko 90]

Mate, heard 10th August is when we will know our fate on EBT's

The fate has been decided, oldco will be liquidated all oldco HMRC accounts are closed HMRC will pursue individuals if they can, end of.

Where you getting your info, guys?

[broxi74 127]

There is a circumvention of the due process by the SFA here yet again. Just like the decision to promote Dundee was carved up in a back room so has our guilt been decided. Reagan must go he's nothing more than a dictator and who one who sleeps in his Celtic top at that.

completely agree regan has to go!! the cunt is intent on stamping us in to the ground... he's got to go!

[CraigG 56]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9406620/Rangers-should-be-stripped-of-their-titles-if-found-guilty-of-using-EBTs-says-former-Celtic-captain-Tom-Boyd.html#disqus_thread

See some of the comments on here. Telegraph must be full of Celtic fans.

[minstral 5,375]

Revealed: Football chiefs' secret plan to strip Rangers of nine trophies over EBT tax dodge

Jul 18 2012 Exclusive by Keith McLeod

rangers spl scottish cup Image 4

FOOTBALL chiefs produced a secret plan to strip Rangers of five SPL titles and four Scottish Cups.

The bombshell document, seen by the Daily Record, was drafted after talks involving the SFA, SPL, Scottish Football League and representatives of Charles Green’s Sevco.

It outlines a range of punishments for Rangers for the Employment Benefit Trust tax dodge used by Sir David Murray’s regime to pay players.

If enforced, the penalties listed would be the harshest ever seen in football. They include:

● STRIPPING the club of their league titles from 2002/3, 2004/5, 2008/9, 2009/10 and 2010/11;

● WIPING OUT Rangers’ Scottish Cup triumphs of 2001/2, 2002/3, 2007/8 and 2008/9;

● FORCING Rangers to accept the one-year transfer embargo imposed by the SFA and overturned by the Court of Session;

● ORDERING Green’s newco to pay Rangers’ old football debts to clubs in Scotland and Europe.

The draft plan was clearly designed by the football authorities to parachute Rangers into Division One of the SFL and protect Scottish football’s TV and marketing revenues.

SFL chairmen voted overwhelmingly last Friday to place Rangers in Division Three, but the Record understands that does NOT mean the punishments in the secret plan will never be imposed.

The SFA will decide on August 10 whether Rangers broke their rules by using EBTs and “dual contracts”, and the document sheds light on the football authorities’ thinking over possible penalties for the club.

It remains a draft, and no agreement has been reached between Sevco and the authorities.

But it appears Green’s firm were willing to accept some if not all of the draft – at least when the prospect of Division One football was on the table.

And the scale of the penalties listed – before Rangers have even been convicted over EBTs – will horrify fans of the club.

Many Rangers supporters will also believe the document undermines the SFA’s judicial process.

The killer section of the document states: “EBT Sanctions means (i) the withdrawal of Rangers FC, RFC and Sevco of the award and status of Champion Club (as defined in the SPL rules) of the Scottish Premier League for each and all of seasons 2002/3, 2004/5, 2008/9, 2009/10 and 2010/11:

“(ii)The withdrawal from Rangers FC, RFC and Sevco of the award and status of winner of the Scottish Cup for each and all of seasons 2001/2, 2002/3, 2007/8, and 2008/9.”

The document also contains an ultra-strict confidentiality agreement. It states: “Neither RFC nor Sevco may make any disclosure to a third party, press release or public announcement whatsoever about, concerning or relating to this agreement ... except with the express prior written consent of each of the SFA, the SPL and the SFL.”

The loss of five league titles would cut Rangers’ total from 54 to 49 and strip them of their status as the most prolific league winners in world football. Northern Irish club Linfield, with 50 titles, would take over.

Celtic finished second in all five of the SPL seasons listed. If the titles were stripped from Rangers and awarded to their Old Firm rivals, Celtic’s total number of championships would rise to 48.

The runners-up in the four Scottish Cups listed were Celtic, Dundee, Queen of the South and Falkirk. The document is silent on the issue of whether the clubs would be named as winners in place of Rangers.

The idea of stripping a club of nine trophies is unprecedented in modern football.

Italian giants Juventus were relegated and stripped of two titles for match-fixing in 2006. They continue to dispute the decision.

Another match-fixing scandal, in France, saw Marseille forfeit their 1993 league title. But they were allowed to keep the Champions League title they won in the same year.

The draft document also insists that Rangers must drop their legal challenge against the SFA transfer embargo, imposed largely as a punishment for the failure to pay tax under Craig Whyte.

The club went to the Court of Session and got the ban overturned. Judge Lord Glennie ruled that the association acted beyond their powers, and ordered them to reconsider.

The club enraged the SFA by going to law. The move also angered FIFA, who insist that clubs should not take their associations to court.

Experts warned that the world governing body could impose bans on Scottish clubs or even the national team unless Rangers backtracked.

The document says that as well as accepting the embargo, Rangers must pay the SFA’s £31,000 costs and the £160,000 fine imposed at the same time as the transfer ban.

The draft deal goes on to state that the Rangers newco will take responsibility for all the football debts run up by the “oldco” – a long list of unpaid bills owed to clubs in Scotland and on the continent.

The oldco went bust owing Hearts £800,000, Dunfermline £83,000, Dundee United £66,000, Celtic and Inverness Caley Thistle £40,000 each, and Aberdeen an undisclosed amount.

Another £1.8million is owed to clubs in England and Europe, including £1million to Austrian side Rapid Vienna for striker Nikica Jelavic.

Green has set off to meet officials from UEFA in a bid to settle the issue of the football debts.

He accepts that the problem must be resolved before newco Rangers can be accepted as members of the SFA. But he wants to strike a deal to make it easier for Sevco – and the club – to shoulder the burden.

He said: “There are certain old club debts to European clubs. It is about £3million, accumulated as part of the historical baggage.

“These are oldco debts newco has got to face up to.

“We want to be honourable. We are people who face up to responsibility. We don’t want them to be waived. We don’t expect them to be waived.

“But we want some help in meeting these because we do want to get Rangers back to the top of the pile.

“And when we do get back into Europe – whether it’s five or 10 years or 20 years – we want to walk back with our heads held high.

“I would like the clubs and UEFA to recognise these are not my debts, and for them to work with us where we can come to some amicably agreeable settlement and move forward together as friends.”

The SFA will consider Rangers’ application for membership next week.

As part of that process, the club’s new chairman, Malcolm Murray, met officials from the governing body yesterday to give more information on the identities of Sevco’s investors.

The SFA confirmed they had received information and requested more. They added that Rangers’ administrators, Duff & Phelps, had been carrying out “fit and proper person” checks on the proposed new directors of the club, alongside the SFA’s own investigations.

The SFA said they were “in dialogue” with Rangers over the transfer embargo row.

They added: “Now that the club’s status has been confirmed by the SPL and SFL, we will consider the award of transfer once Rangers FC satisfy the necessary criteria.”

If newco Rangers are accepted as SFA members, they will start their new season away to Brechin City in the Ramsdens Cup at Glebe Park on July 28.

[Calgacus 88]

"pretty shocked that this is in some way new news or the idea going about that its not been proved" It hasn't been proved - the SPL believes there is a case to answer. Rangers have not yet been given the chance to put submit a defense. It looks like this is an attempt to circumvent the process. The club are in the same position as someone who has been charged with a crime - you're not guilty just because the police say you are.

[elephants stoned 2,994]

Revealed: Football chiefs' secret plan to strip Rangers of nine trophies over EBT tax dodge

Jul 18 2012 Exclusive by Keith McLeod

rangers spl scottish cup Image 4

FOOTBALL chiefs produced a secret plan to strip Rangers of five SPL titles and four Scottish Cups.

The bombshell document, seen by the Daily Record, was drafted after talks involving the SFA, SPL, Scottish Football League and representatives of Charles Green’s Sevco.

It outlines a range of punishments for Rangers for the Employment Benefit Trust tax dodge used by Sir David Murray’s regime to pay players.

If enforced, the penalties listed would be the harshest ever seen in football. They include:

● STRIPPING the club of their league titles from 2002/3, 2004/5, 2008/9, 2009/10 and 2010/11;

● WIPING OUT Rangers’ Scottish Cup triumphs of 2001/2, 2002/3, 2007/8 and 2008/9;

● FORCING Rangers to accept the one-year transfer embargo imposed by the SFA and overturned by the Court of Session;

● ORDERING Green’s newco to pay Rangers’ old football debts to clubs in Scotland and Europe.

The draft plan was clearly designed by the football authorities to parachute Rangers into Division One of the SFL and protect Scottish football’s TV and marketing revenues.

SFL chairmen voted overwhelmingly last Friday to place Rangers in Division Three, but the Record understands that does NOT mean the punishments in the secret plan will never be imposed.

The SFA will decide on August 10 whether Rangers broke their rules by using EBTs and “dual contracts”, and the document sheds light on the football authorities’ thinking over possible penalties for the club.

It remains a draft, and no agreement has been reached between Sevco and the authorities.

But it appears Green’s firm were willing to accept some if not all of the draft – at least when the prospect of Division One football was on the table.

And the scale of the penalties listed – before Rangers have even been convicted over EBTs – will horrify fans of the club.

Many Rangers supporters will also believe the document undermines the SFA’s judicial process.

The killer section of the document states: “EBT Sanctions means (i) the withdrawal of Rangers FC, RFC and Sevco of the award and status of Champion Club (as defined in the SPL rules) of the Scottish Premier League for each and all of seasons 2002/3, 2004/5, 2008/9, 2009/10 and 2010/11:

“(ii)The withdrawal from Rangers FC, RFC and Sevco of the award and status of winner of the Scottish Cup for each and all of seasons 2001/2, 2002/3, 2007/8, and 2008/9.”

The document also contains an ultra-strict confidentiality agreement. It states: “Neither RFC nor Sevco may make any disclosure to a third party, press release or public announcement whatsoever about, concerning or relating to this agreement ... except with the express prior written consent of each of the SFA, the SPL and the SFL.”

The loss of five league titles would cut Rangers’ total from 54 to 49 and strip them of their status as the most prolific league winners in world football. Northern Irish club Linfield, with 50 titles, would take over.

Celtic finished second in all five of the SPL seasons listed. If the titles were stripped from Rangers and awarded to their Old Firm rivals, Celtic’s total number of championships would rise to 48.

The runners-up in the four Scottish Cups listed were Celtic, Dundee, Queen of the South and Falkirk. The document is silent on the issue of whether the clubs would be named as winners in place of Rangers.

The idea of stripping a club of nine trophies is unprecedented in modern football.

Italian giants Juventus were relegated and stripped of two titles for match-fixing in 2006. They continue to dispute the decision.

Another match-fixing scandal, in France, saw Marseille forfeit their 1993 league title. But they were allowed to keep the Champions League title they won in the same year.

The draft document also insists that Rangers must drop their legal challenge against the SFA transfer embargo, imposed largely as a punishment for the failure to pay tax under Craig Whyte.

The club went to the Court of Session and got the ban overturned. Judge Lord Glennie ruled that the association acted beyond their powers, and ordered them to reconsider.

The club enraged the SFA by going to law. The move also angered FIFA, who insist that clubs should not take their associations to court.

Experts warned that the world governing body could impose bans on Scottish clubs or even the national team unless Rangers backtracked.

The document says that as well as accepting the embargo, Rangers must pay the SFA’s £31,000 costs and the £160,000 fine imposed at the same time as the transfer ban.

The draft deal goes on to state that the Rangers newco will take responsibility for all the football debts run up by the “oldco” – a long list of unpaid bills owed to clubs in Scotland and on the continent.

The oldco went bust owing Hearts £800,000, Dunfermline £83,000, Dundee United £66,000, Celtic and Inverness Caley Thistle £40,000 each, and Aberdeen an undisclosed amount.

Another £1.8million is owed to clubs in England and Europe, including £1million to Austrian side Rapid Vienna for striker Nikica Jelavic.

Green has set off to meet officials from UEFA in a bid to settle the issue of the football debts.

He accepts that the problem must be resolved before newco Rangers can be accepted as members of the SFA. But he wants to strike a deal to make it easier for Sevco – and the club – to shoulder the burden.

He said: “There are certain old club debts to European clubs. It is about £3million, accumulated as part of the historical baggage.

“These are oldco debts newco has got to face up to.

“We want to be honourable. We are people who face up to responsibility. We don’t want them to be waived. We don’t expect them to be waived.

“But we want some help in meeting these because we do want to get Rangers back to the top of the pile.

“And when we do get back into Europe – whether it’s five or 10 years or 20 years – we want to walk back with our heads held high.

“I would like the clubs and UEFA to recognise these are not my debts, and for them to work with us where we can come to some amicably agreeable settlement and move forward together as friends.”

The SFA will consider Rangers’ application for membership next week.

As part of that process, the club’s new chairman, Malcolm Murray, met officials from the governing body yesterday to give more information on the identities of Sevco’s investors.

The SFA confirmed they had received information and requested more. They added that Rangers’ administrators, Duff & Phelps, had been carrying out “fit and proper person” checks on the proposed new directors of the club, alongside the SFA’s own investigations.

The SFA said they were “in dialogue” with Rangers over the transfer embargo row.

They added: “Now that the club’s status has been confirmed by the SPL and SFL, we will consider the award of transfer once Rangers FC satisfy the necessary criteria.”

If newco Rangers are accepted as SFA members, they will start their new season away to Brechin City in the Ramsdens Cup at Glebe Park on July 28.

Even the Rhebel seems to think it would be far too harsh, they cant possibly get away with this, i fear this would be a step too far and somebody (O'Regan possibly) will end up getting a nasty nasty shock.

[Glowingmonkeyhead 62]

Can anyone please explain to me how we gained a sporting advantage by not disclosing the EBT's to the SFA/SPL?

The EBT scheme was/is not illegal, we stated the amounts paid in our audited annual accounts, there is no wage cap in the SFA/SPL so what is the fucking issue?

To compare this to match fixing like Juventus and Marseille is disgusting and ts laughable as they want to punish us more than either of the clubs proved of match fixing got!

If these sanctions get passed then Scottish Football is dead and O'Reegan will be correct that civil unrest will kick off - something stinks - it looks like a divide in Scottish life is being created by the use of Football by cretins with grander agenda's

[trueblueal 2,117]

I wonder when the journos will start printing the fact that dual payments even if true were declared in the accounts and not proven to be illegal and therefore not worthy of anything more than a censure.

[Shuggy 1,308]

Can anyone please explain to me how we gained a sporting advantage by not disclosing the EBT's to the SFA/SPL?

The EBT scheme was/is not illegal, we stated the amounts paid in our audited annual accounts, there is no wage cap in the SFA/SPL so what is the fucking issue?

To compare this to match fixing like Juventus and Marseille is disgusting and ts laughable as they want to punish us more than either of the clubs proved of match fixing got!

If these sanctions get passed then Scottish Football is dead and O'Reegan will be correct that civil unrest will kick off - something stinks - it looks like a divide in Scottish life is being created by the use of Football by cretins with grander agenda's

It's not the sporting advantage bit, it's just the plain punishment for not declaring so called second contracts for each of the alleged seasons they were in operation.

But yes, draconian to say the least.

[Chef 436]

I'm sure I seen some guy from thr championship infront of some parliament session explaining about football governance and I'm sure something like fielding squads you can't afford and how the governance isn't in place to punish clubs spending outwith thr means.

[trueblueal 2,117]

If there's been an error its been a minor technical error. The payments were in the accounts. The accounts are submitted every year to the SFA. If there was a problem the SFA should have highlighted the problem in year one. That is negligence on their part.

[BigBadDavidson 9]

Let's see what kind of kick-backs those cunts at the SFA have enjoyed during their tenure. Absolute cunts!!!

[graeme355 28]

Is this not the sanctions that were referred to in Reagans e mail, where Petrie was to get agreement from Green for them?

If so its already been rejected by us hence why we were not voted back into the SPL.

[Shuggy 1,308]

how does that really help us?

i dont see what it changes we were fucked not cos the case hanging over our heads but because of the 15 million shyte didnt pay the double contracts etc

but i think the reason it is taking so long to decide is cos BDO just got in the door on top of that there is nothing to hurry them the outcome of it is pretty meaningless as we already ditched the debt no matter what it is and really they wanted to do a full and total investigation into all goings on incase there was more skeletons in the closet and also they need to account for every penny they intend to claim back from the ex players and board members etc....

If the HMRC appeal succeeds, I can't see how the SFA/SPL dual contracts charge can go any further.

But that could drag on, apparently the decision of the First Tier Tax Tribunal can be appealed to the Upper Tribunal!

Tax Tribunals

[Thermopylae 15,287]

Rangers Newco has never had EBT's.

This is the point they can't have it both ways ... no more Rangers but also we still get punished for what went on before

[KeepBelieving1872 64]

This is the point they can't have it both ways ... no more Rangers but also we still get punished for what went on before

thats not the issue - whoever won the titles, could lose them if the authorities get their way.

its not about being able to punish newco/oldco. Rangers won those trophies, so they could be taken away whether.

[Big Al 55 9,308]

If the HMRC appeal succeeds, I can't see how the SFA/SPL dual contracts charge can go any further.

IMO if we win the EBT then it cannot be said we obtained a unfair advantage since we paid all the tax due for those players. If we lose the appeal then I can see that we would be open to that charge.

However IMO regardless of the legality of the EBT's it looks like we may have a case to answer regarding dual contracts.

IMO the question is "Is being stripped of titles a punishment for dual contracts or is it a punishment for unfairly obtaining a sporting advantage as a result of EBTs?'

[CraigG 56]

Melbourne Storm had 2 National Rugby League titles stripped for breaching the salary cap. The title was NOT awarded to any other team, but those years were counted as void. This should count as a precedent, so if the worst comes about at least Celtic won't be able to claim the titles.

[Shuggy 1,308]

Melbourne Storm had 2 National Rugby League titles stripped for breaching the salary cap. The title was NOT awarded to any other team, but those years were counted as void. This should count as a precedent, so if the worst comes about at least Celtic won't be able to claim the titles.

Likewise, no one was given Juventus' stripped Serie A title of 2004-2005.

However, Marseilles' stripped 1992-1993 title was given to 2nd placed PSG but their TV owners Canal+ refused it for fear of losing subscribers in the south of France! Must be that good old fan power again.

NOTE: Juventus and Marseille were "only" relegated one division for the more serious football offence of match fixing.

[Shuggy 1,308]

isnt the fact marseille were only demoted 1 division mostly based on the fact they only have 2?

I am sure they could have thought up worse punishments but the "SFA Inquistion" hold that title just now.