JamieD 20,033 Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 didnt he win the league and CL in the same season, his screamer at hampden springs to mind i agree with your post though, iirc france in 98 owed a lot to their defence, especially blanc, plus i always liked emmanuelle petit and he had a storming tournament that year too Yes, he did, but in the four seasons after the Hampden final, as part of the most expensively assembled squad in history, he won the league and copa del rey only once (in 2003), as Madrid became essentially the Harlem Globetrotters of European football. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimfanciesthedude 25,609 Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 Basically what I'm getting at is that whether or not Beckenbauer is the greatest defender of all-time, I don't think he was a genius (though he was enormously gifted, and a very fine midfielder before he was a sweeper). I do think that Pele, Maradona and, yes, Messi are geniuses, if such a thing exists in football.thats quite a good post mate, i can see where you are coming from now with the way that beckenbauer could read the game i would say he was a genius at that part, just my thoughts as a defender myself, Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimfanciesthedude 25,609 Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 Yes, he did, but in the four seasons after the Hampden final, as part of the most expensively assembled squad in history, he won the league and copa del rey only once (in 2003), as Madrid became essentially the Harlem Globetrotters of European football.true, id put a lot of the blame down to the president and the club board, they sacked the double winning manager then failed to find an adequate replacement, infact didnt they have 3 managers in a calendar year at one point? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieD 20,033 Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 true, id put a lot of the blame down to the president and the club board, they sacked the double winning manager then failed to find an adequate replacement, infact didnt they have 3 managers in a calendar year at one point?They did, which just proves my point. If Zidane could "single-handedly drag his team to victory" (as some claim) with any kind of consistency, those factors wouldn't have mattered and Real would have cleaned up year after year,but he couldn't, so they didn't. He needed what every player needs, no matter how great, which is a settled team who can work together towards a common goal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieD 20,033 Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 thats quite a good post mate, i can see where you are coming from now with the way that beckenbauer could read the game i would say he was a genius at that part, just my thoughts as a defender myself,True, but I kind of feel like guys like Beckenbauer and Baresi's supernatural game intelligence is almost a separate thing entirely. It's something that even totally average footballers could have (thought not many do). Someone like Mourinho probably reads the game as well as they do and he never made it as a footballer. Which is not to say that Beckenbauer and Baresi weren't gifted with the ball too, both were great passers, dribblers and underrated finishers, but probably not absolutely world class at any of those things. The thing that they were truly world class at was something that exists outside of elite athleticism. I don't really even know what I'm getting at, at this point, and I have no idea if I'm explaining myself well but I know what I want to say Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimfanciesthedude 25,609 Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 True, but I kind of feel like guys like Beckenbauer and Baresi's supernatural game intelligence is almost a separate thing entirely. It's something that even totally average footballers could have (thought not many do). Someone like Mourinho probably reads the game as well as they do and he never made it as a footballer. Which is not to say that Beckenbauer and Baresi weren't gifted with the ball too, both were great passers, dribblers and underrated finishers, but probably not absolutely world class at any of those things. The thing that they were truly world class at was something that exists outside of elite athleticism.I don't really even know what I'm getting at, at this point, and I have no idea if I'm explaining myself well but I know what I want to say i think i know what you are trying to say lolgreat thing about opinions aint it lol, personally i think that for a footballer to be good at both the physical part (dribbling, shooting etc) and the intelligence part (reading, positioning, commanding of the defence etc) then they really are a special breed of footballers, hence why i cannot distinguish between guys like messi and beckenbaueras you said mourinho could probably read the game like a book, yest he most likely didnt have the physical aspects to be a great at the game, and lord knows we've seen players with abundance of natural ability, but being thick as shit hindered their progress to the point where they regressed over time Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannerall 25,935 Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 This is the most enjoyable football discussion I have seen on RT, JamieD and jimbeamjunior. You share my general passion for football which i sometimes have to seperate from my Rangers passion.I find it hard to define the greatest footballers, so many variables could fill a page. To me the biggest challenge is summed up by trying to compare my greatest ever players by fitting them in a team, but then I hve to make compromises.imo Maradona is head and shoulders above them all, but even then there is the problem of him having his doped up phase.After that I have about 40 to fit in to 10 remaining places.Similar quandary with my greatest ever Rangers players. Forsyth or Gough. Cooper or Laudrup, Gascoigne or Baxter.Almost impossible. But then that's why i love football and the discussion.Beckenbauer was a great shout (I would have Baresi, but only just, so would prefer to play both.)Will dish out a couple of reps to you both at random above for the general input Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jela 21,639 Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 The Real Ronaldo still shits over Messi. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jela 21,639 Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 This is the most enjoyable football discussion I have seen on RT, JamieD and jimbeamjunior. You share my general passion for football which i sometimes have to seperate from my Rangers passion.I find it hard to define the greatest footballers, so many variables could fill a page. To me the biggest challenge is summed up by trying to compare my greatest ever players by fitting them in a team, but then I hve to make compromises.imo Maradona is head and shoulders above them all, but even then there is the problem of him having his doped up phase.After that I have about 40 to fit in to 10 remaining places.Similar quandary with my greatest ever Rangers players. Forsyth or Gough. Cooper or Laudrup, Gascoigne or Baxter.Almost impossible. But then that's why i love football and the discussion.Beckenbauer was a great shout (I would have Baresi, but only just, so would prefer to play both.)Will dish out a couple of reps to you both at random above for the general input Don't gay it up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannerall 25,935 Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 Don't gay it up.You implying Baresi was gay ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mongoose 1,007 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Pele for Me...he could use both feet, head,tackle,take a doing and get up....mind you he dished it out as well.For Me itsPeleMessiMaradonnaJim DennyCryuffAs my top 5 in that order! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
West_Side 1,571 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 "Pele is a poet when he keeps his mouth shut" - Romario Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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