Scouting

[Marco Negri's Beard 1,423]

I don't disagree in that we need to scout players - I have said it many times since we turned the corner 18 months ago. However, the board need to stabilise Rangers FC first.

There is absolutely no point in spending to accumulate if we are struggling to see passed next season.

And hiring say two scouts for Scotland and two for down south will not sink us. They'd work out as the equivalent to a couple of our current players off the wage bill, if even that. Like I said, i'm not suggesting we set up a worldwide, all-encompassing network right this moment. But a couple of scouts to identify players within Britain is absolutely paramount. Not having them over the next year-18 months would lead us to a position of huge danger.

[JMac_88 310]

Wallace needs to trim the player bill accordingly - Not sure how he is personally go about it. But he needs to do it the right way and not get rid of our best players - Just to improve the bank balance.

Money will obviously need to be invested into certain areas of the club in order to make the run more efficiently than they currently do.

McCoist should not have been speaking to the press about the need to bring in new players.

Especially before the meeting with Wallace, which is when everything will become clearer for McCoist in terms of the plan of the action.

[JMac_88 310]

And hiring say two scouts for Scotland and two for down south will not sink us. They'd work out as the equivalent to a couple of our current players off the wage bill, if even that. Like I said, i'm not suggesting we set up a worldwide, all-encompassing network right this moment. But a couple of scouts to identify players within Britain is absolutely paramount. Not having them over the next year-18 months would lead us to a position of huge danger.

Totally Correct, Head Scout will be one of the most important positions at our club right now and we hopefully can bring in the right person to lead the transformation.

[SteveJ 743]

And hiring say two scouts for Scotland and two for down south will not sink us. They'd work out as the equivalent to a couple of our current players off the wage bill, if even that. Like I said, i'm not suggesting we set up a worldwide, all-encompassing network right this moment. But a couple of scouts to identify players within Britain is absolutely paramount. Not having them over the next year-18 months would lead us to a position of huge danger.

Okay, so let's say we let a couple of players go and hire three scouts. Those three scouts toddle off with their IT package, company car and company credit card for expenses. They find 20 players between them in 6 months and Ally picks one. Before we even consider whether the board would be able to finance Ally's choice player, do you think a club that is spending more than they earn can afford to spend money on those scouts?

We need to stabilise Rangers first and I hope the board refuse Ally his money for Kenny Miller etc., this month. We need to be ruthless but keeping the players that will be of more use to us if we progress to the top in the given journey expectations. Once stabilised, and income is a tad better, we then jump on the scouting trail in time for the top flight.

[JMac_88 310]

I hope McCoist does not get his wish i.e we can let these players go in return for us to bring in these two players.

I am sure Wallace will be strong in the meeting in regards to demands from McCoist. (Which no doubt will upset McCoist.)

[Marco Negri's Beard 1,423]

Okay, so let's say we let a couple of players go and hire three scouts. Those three scouts toddle off with their IT package, company car and company credit card for expenses. They find 20 players between them in 6 months and Ally picks one. Before we even consider whether the board would be able to finance Ally's choice player, do you think a club that is spending more than they earn can afford to spend money on those scouts?

We need to stabilise Rangers first and I hope the board refuse Ally his money for Kenny Miller etc., this month. We need to be ruthless but keeping the players that will be of more use to us if we progress to the top in the given journey expectations. Once stabilised, and income is a tad better, we then jump on the scouting trail in time for the top flight.

1) Ally wouldn't be targeting Kenny Miller (if that is even true) if we had even a single scout.

2) When have we been stable in the last 2/3/4 years and what makes you think we're going to hit that glorious 'stability' in the next year? Hence, why do you think we will be 'stable' before we get back to the top division and what happens if we aren't stable by that point and so have no scouts in place going back to the top division?

3) What makes you think income is going to be significantly better by then?

4) Why do you keep trying to convince us that scouts are going to cost a fortune? They won't. If you got rid of say a player on 4-5k a week (Smith/Foster?), you could comfortably afford a number of scouts with that money. Identify one decent player who can be bought, developed and sold on, and you've already made your money back (and more).

I take your point. We need stability. Everybody would agree with that sentiment. However, having some scouts in place is an absolutely crucial part of that stability. It won't cost an arm and a leg if you start relatively small and it will prevent us signing your Kenny Millers on a big wage with no sell-on value. If you don't bring in scouts, we sign Kenny Miller and persist with Smith and Foster. When their contracts run down in a few years (or when we pay them off) we've literally thrown hundreds of thousands of pounds down the drain.

Small investments now in scouting would reap rewards. Again, it won't cost loads, done correctly. I maintain, its paramount to us becoming stable again. We cannot wait. Now is the time to do this

[ForeverBlue_Since91 2,895]

But we have no money!

If we were going to do this, we would have done it when thousands of fans put hand in pocket and purchased £22m worth of shares - we did not and we cannot afford it now.

Rangers fans did not purchase 22million worth of shares.

[SteveJ 743]

1) Ally wouldn't be targeting Kenny Miller (if that is even true) if we had even a single scout.

2) When have we been stable in the last 2/3/4 years and what makes you think we're going to hit that glorious 'stability' in the next year? Hence, why do you think we will be 'stable' before we get back to the top division and what happens if we aren't stable by that point and so have no scouts in place going back to the top division?

3) What makes you think income is going to be significantly better by then?

4) Why do you keep trying to convince us that scouts are going to cost a fortune? They won't. If you got rid of say a player on 4-5k a week (Smith/Foster?), you could comfortably afford a number of scouts with that money. Identify one decent player who can be bought, developed and sold on, and you've already made your money back (and more).

I take your point. We need stability. Everybody would agree with that sentiment. However, having some scouts in place is an absolutely crucial part of that stability. It won't cost an arm and a leg if you start relatively small and it will prevent us signing your Kenny Millers on a big wage with no sell-on value. If you don't bring in scouts, we sign Kenny Miller and persist with Smith and Foster. When their contracts run down in a few years (or when we pay them off) we've literally thrown hundreds of thousands of pounds down the drain.

Small investments now in scouting would reap rewards. Again, it won't cost loads, done correctly. I maintain, its paramount to us becoming stable again. We cannot wait. Now is the time to do this

Ally would be targeting Miller even if we had a scout or six. His mentor did exactly the same, going for known players who many teams went for. Smith did not need a scouting system, he might as well have used Sky Sports and back then, Serie A on 4.

I have a sneaky suspicion we will be stable by January next year. Don't ask me why, I just feel that the investmenet will come from those who are behind the scenes, just in time for investing in the team for the top flight charge.

I want to convince you that scouts will be expensive because they will be. It's not just a wage, unless you want to employ people from a specific city to scout that city. They need a car, they need expenses, they need a laptop and phone, they need to be trusted. On top of that, you need to get people who actually know what to look for in a player - most of which are employed by clubs who are stable and can afford the wages.

We are obviously going to disagree on this subject but I think we both believe it needs to happen. I just feel we are not quite there yet to afford the luxury, unless Ally finally halves his salary.

[SteveJ 743]

Rangers fans did not purchase 22million worth of shares.

You don't know that in as much as I don't know they did. My point was fans put their hands in their pocket and at the end of it, we raised £22M. If we were being pedantic, we would include the pre-share acquisitions, meaning we raised £30M

[ForeverBlue_Since91 2,895]

What happens if we do get a few scouts and the players they find Rangers are not in a position to sign? Then you will have people saying our scouting system is shite etc..........

We should have scouts at least scouting Britain just now we should have had that last year and this year. Then when we're in the SPL it should be world wide.

[ForeverBlue_Since91 2,895]

You don't know that in as much as I don't know they did. My point was fans put their hands in their pocket and at the end of it, we raised £22M. If we were being pedantic, we would include the pre-share acquisitions, meaning we raised £30M

Thee fans put in 5million the rest of the shares were bought by institutional investors.

[SteveJ 743]

What happens if we do get a few scouts and the players they find Rangers are not in a position to sign? Then you will have people saying our scouting system is shite etc..........

We should have scouts at least scouting Britain just now we should have had that last year and this year. Then when we're in the SPL it should be world wide.

Lol, sounds like you are arguing both points!

[elephants stoned 2,994]

How much wages is realistic for say 5 scouts 1 in Scotland 1 in England and the othes in European countrys looking for those wee gems that we always hear about but never see anywhere near Rangers? What would be a weekly wage for a Rangers scout today?

[elephants stoned 2,994]

Lol, sounds like you are arguing both points!

That way he never loses an argument

[CalvinC 1,414]

Don't get me started on our scouting

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

He wants to get some more edible food in the snack bar as well. Come on Ally, we deserve butter!

Class :lol:

[SteveJ 743]

How much wages is realistic for say 5 scouts 1 in Scotland 1 in England and the othes in European countrys looking for those wee gems that we always hear about but never see anywhere near Rangers? What would be a weekly wage for a Rangers scout today?

It really depends on whether you want a full-time employee or pay a fee to a scout who introduces you to a signing. That is the common misconception of a network - the network is not the expensive part, it's the people who run the network (senior scouts).

The full time scout would probably set Rangers back £1k per week + benefits and a bonus on a signing. A local scout would only receive the bonus but it would be larger, although they need to eat and will tout players to other clubs.

[nachothelegend 1,932]

We need people down South Scouring the Lower English Leagues ,there are some Gems down there and Paul Sturrock Recommended Mhosni to us so we must have some People Scouting out.

I reckon the Boardroom shit had a lot to do with this as the Board have been under Siege for at least 6 Months.

We need to allow them to get on with it now.

[SteveJ 743]

We need people down South Scouring the Lower English Leagues ,there are some Gems down there and Paul Sturrock Recommended Mhosni to us so we must have some People Scouting out.

I reckon the Boardroom shit had a lot to do with this as the Board have been under Siege for at least 6 Months.

We need to allow them to get on with it now.

Ally will have the contacts that Walter had and Sturrock will be one. That said, we have had some real fuckwits from contacts and we have made some great sales on fuckwits from us being a contact.

The answer may be to hire a solid head scout who is the only wage on the books, with the rest being the lads who are paid on commission. The head scout would have a hell of a travelling and expense bill, but it would be cheaper than hiring 5 scouts. We would end up paying for talent we sign, rather than wages for nothing.

[elephants stoned 2,994]

It really depends on whether you want a full-time employee or pay a fee to a scout who introduces you to a signing. That is the common misconception of a network - the network is not the expensive part, it's the people who run the network (senior scouts).

The full time scout would probably set Rangers back £1k per week + benefits and a bonus on a signing. A local scout would only receive the bonus but it would be larger, although they need to eat and will tout players to other clubs.

cheers mate so say we had 5 scouts at a minimum of 5k a week maybe rising to 7-8k at a guess, whats got to be better value for money Dean Shiels or these scout s Shiels wages have been reported at 7k a week. If you add up wages of guys who whether through injury or just being crap are not contributing like Perry, Hegarty, Cribari ect if we lose a few of those we pay for a modest scouting network.

[elephants stoned 2,994]

We need people down South Scouring the Lower English Leagues ,there are some Gems down there and Paul Sturrock Recommended Mhosni to us so we must have some People Scouting out.

I reckon the Boardroom shit had a lot to do with this as the Board have been under Siege for at least 6 Months.

We need to allow them to get on with it now.

Its Mohsni mate, the way you spell it he sounds like a taig.

[SteveJ 743]

cheers mate so say we had 5 scouts at a minimum of 5k a week maybe rising to 7-8k at a guess, whats got to be better value for money Dean Shiels or these scout s Shiels wages have been reported at 7k a week. If you add up wages of guys who whether through injury or just being crap are not contributing like Perry, Hegarty, Cribari ect if we lose a few of those we pay for a modest scouting network.

You can have a basic network by sacrificing a few players but the expenses will not be accountable or known until the end of the tax year. On top of that, these players that you are sacrificing are front end staff (playing) who could benefit the club at a minutes notice. The scouts will only ever benefit the club when they want to buy a new player - something that is not going to happen a lot with our finances.

As I said, with our club back in the shit financially, I cannot see the CEO thinking on your wavelength.

[SteveJ 743]

Its Mohsni mate, the way you spell it he sounds like a taig.

Haha, I used to to tag him as a cartoon character - Moshni

[elephants stoned 2,994]

You can have a basic network by sacrificing a few players but the expenses will not be accountable or known until the end of the tax year. On top of that, these players that you are sacrificing are front end staff (playing) who could benefit the club at a minutes notice. The scouts will only ever benefit the club when they want to buy a new player - something that is not going to happen a lot with our finances.

As I said, with our club back in the shit financially, I cannot see the CEO thinking on your wavelength.

We might not be buying players now but in 18 months time we will have too, its alright talking about keeping expectations low and not worrying about challenging the taigs straight away but we must be as competitve as possible get the cuts done now in the lower leagues and get some investment in to stabilize us ready for the big push a couple of years from now. These scouts are part of an investment in the future guys like Shiels, Cribari ect are likely to leave anyway in the next 6 months so if we could cut our losses now and get some infrastruture built up as we cant run Rangers without proper foundations in place.

[elephants stoned 2,994]

Haha, I used to to tag him as a cartoon character - Moshni

Rocking in a Mosh(ni) pit