Sweetheart 8,458 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 I don't think it's just MW's legacy, I think what we are seeing now has been building up for a while and is a knock on effect that started with the signing ban, then AMcC management decision and then MW management decisions of paying high wages for players who could only see the club promoted. We have a lot of players on the books that do not have the quality/experience to play SPL or Europa football. Pedro's audit of the squad was needed imho. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoGeo7 10,518 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Turnberry18 said: Again, what with? Freed up wages and any fees we recouperate used to sign free agents or players Pedro knows that aren't subject to heavily inflated prices. So at centre back there is Bassong and Ryan Bennett undoubtedly a step up from who we have had this year. Central midfield there are options here too Andrew Surman from Bournemouth on a free for instance. Wingers you have Zoran Tosic at CSKA and George Boyd Then up top Harris Seferovic from Frankfurt or Felipe Avenatti at Ternana. Not saying we should go for any of these but just showing that there are some decent (and potentially realistic) deals to be and for wages and agent fees only. Id love for the board to stump up the cash to make some actual signings of note but if it doesn't happen then it's not the end of the world.......not yet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnberry18 3,204 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, Sweetheart said: I don't think it's just MW's legacy, I think what we are seeing now has been building up for a while and is a knock on effect that started with the signing ban, then AMcC management decision and then MW management decisions of paying high wages for players who could only see the club promoted. We have a lot of players on the books that do not have the experience to play SPL or Europa football. Pedro's audit of the squad was needed imho. Mark Warburton himself articulated a crucial point about this squad: he noted the number of players who were not playing at international level. That emphasis alone should allow us to appreciate where the team is at right now. Could he have bought full internationalists in the Championship; or with the budget he had this season? We will always be short till we have a level of player who plays at international level. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetheart 8,458 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 14 minutes ago, Turnberry18 said: Mark Warburton himself articulated a crucial point about this squad: he noted the number of players who were not playing at international level. That emphasis alone should allow to appreciate where the team is at right now. Could have bought full internationalists in the Championship; or with the budget he had this season? We will always be short till we have level of player who plays at international level. Agreed. point I was making was that the club has been bringing in players that would only see us promoted. This season that bottle necked as was predicted by many back when we had the signing ban. The opinion then was free to play and out of contract players was the wrong way to go, as these players could only see the club gain promotion. AMcC and MW have left their legacies but the signing ban imho was where the real damage was done, it set us back years. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnberry18 3,204 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, Sweetheart said: Agreed. point I was making was that the club has been bringing in players that would only see us promoted. This season that bottle necked as was predicted by many back when we had the signing ban. The opinion then was free to play and out of contract players was the wrong way to go, as these players could only see the club gain promotion. AMcC and MW have left their legacies but the signing ban imho was where the real damage was done, it set us back years. Should that not have been pivotal, though, to bringing on young players? We lost a huge opportunity in the lower divisions and wasted a lot of money on some poor players. Point taken though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetheart 8,458 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Turnberry18 said: Should that not have been pivotal, though, to bringing on young players? We lost a huge opportunity in the lower divisions and wasted a lot of money on some poor players. Point taken though. I agree, We did lose a huge opportunity in the lower divisions and wasted a lot of money on players, but we also know that the managers had a task on their hands to get players for 3rd division football, after that it became the cycle each year to pay over the odds in wages to gain promotion. But the managers made that choice and by enticing players with a high wage meant there was not a lot of budget to build the youth system. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnberry18 3,204 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, Sweetheart said: I agree, We did lose a huge opportunity in the lower divisions and wasted a lot of money on players, but we also know that the managers had a task on their hands to get players for 3rd division football, after that it became the cycle each year to pay over the odds in wages to gain promotion. But the managers made that choice and by enticing players with a high wage meant there was not a lot of budget to build the youth system. It's ironic that we had a player in Lewis McLeod in the lower divisions who is probably better than anyone we have at the moment. And you give quite a fair analysis of the situation back then. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetheart 8,458 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, Turnberry18 said: It's ironic that we had a player in Lewis McLeod in the lower divisions who is probably better than anyone we have at the moment. There is a few diamonds in the raw in the lower leagues that have the potential of being good footballers with a good sell on value. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnberry18 3,204 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 Just now, Sweetheart said: There is a few diamonds in the raw in the lower leagues of that have the potential of being good footballers with a good sell on value. I think we played against Queen's Park back then and they had a player who went on to play at a higher level; we even missed players right in front of our eyes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetheart 8,458 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Turnberry18 said: I think we played against Queen's Park back then and they had a player who went on to play at a higher level; we even missed players right in front of our eyes. It would be worth scouts looking through those old games and presenting a list for Pedro's consideration. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnberry18 3,204 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Sweetheart said: It would be worth scouts looking through those old games and presenting a list for Pedro's consideration. No way now, I disagree there. We need something else entirely now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetheart 8,458 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 11 minutes ago, Turnberry18 said: No way now, I disagree there. We need something else entirely now. For the first team yes. I was thinking more for development & sell on Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnberry18 3,204 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, Sweetheart said: For the first team yes. I was thinking more for development & sell on Maybe, but I'd like to think that was happening already. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
graeme_4 34,527 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 3 hours ago, Turnberry18 said: Did we replace Warburton with a better manager? That is a crucial question. I liked Warburton, because he was for the long term- there was no budget of note, and Auchenhowie was the future of the club, and there are signs that what he was doing there was slowly paying off. Sack Warburton then that long term objective means nothing anymore, so we have to deliver the goods now. We have not replaced Warburton with a better manager, and if he gets it right at Nottingham Forest, and if he spends on quality players with a good budget then many Rangers fans will then wonder what might have been. The only reasonable outcome of moving Warburton on would have been for a better alternative; nothing else. Nonsense - PC has given more youth players and opportunity in 7 weeks that MW did in his full stint. Nonsense - we were going backwards under MW sadly (and I was a big supporter of his). Agreed, if it had been our decision - but he moved himself on when he and Weir tried to engineer their way out under the guise of 'going down south to speak to a player'. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnberry18 3,204 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 Just now, graeme_4 said: Nonsense - PC has given more youth players and opportunity in 7 weeks that MW did in his full stint. Nonsense - we were going backwards under MW sadly (and I was a big supporter of his). Agreed, if it had been our decision - but he moved himself on when he and Weir tried to engineer their way out under the guise of 'going down south to speak to a player'. Well, if I can add some further 'nonsense' I don't think you or I know the full story about that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnberry18 3,204 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, OhW said: Warburton was given sufficient budget to finish 2nd but he wasted it. I'm going to give it a rest with my argument on the Second place stuff, but I do disagree. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
graeme_4 34,527 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 13 minutes ago, Turnberry18 said: Well, if I can add some further 'nonsense' I don't think you or I know the full story about that. Cool - fill me in then... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnberry18 3,204 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 Just now, graeme_4 said: Cool - fill me in then... Read the full sentence. I said 'you or I"! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juniorsparkie 491 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 5 hours ago, Tenerife Bear said: Is one of failure and abject mediocrity. This Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoGeo7 10,518 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 12 minutes ago, OhW said: Do you have a goatee? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetheart 8,458 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, OhW said: Why on earth would we watch games that happened years ago to look for players? In short to make money. We missed a few raw gems on the way up, we could still develop and sell them on. 1st team will need to be funded somehow. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnberry18 3,204 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, Sweetheart said: In short to make money. We missed a few raw gems on the way up, we could still develop and sell them on. 1st team will need to be funded somehow. With all respect, we didn't really. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetheart 8,458 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, Turnberry18 said: With all respect, we didn't really. no probs, I have a different opinion, I thought their were a few teams that we played that had a few raw gems, that could be developed and sold on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnberry18 3,204 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 Just now, Sweetheart said: no probs, I have a different opinion, I thought their were a few teams that we played that had a few raw gem that could be developed and sold on. I think the only one who sticks in the mind is the one who played for QP. Other than that the opposition was poor. What I think has been lost in all of this is that by losing the players we did years ago, we also lost some good young players alongside them. Very few clubs would come through that experience easily. We have a great deal to get back from where we were to where we are now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetheart 8,458 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 18 minutes ago, OhW said: So we watch games from this season, not games from years ago. "We missed a few raw gems", we all know about Robertson, who else did we miss? Scott Robertson. Ross Brown, David Goodwillie but in hindsight I'm glad we missed out on him Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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