Squad Ins and Outs Discussion

[esquire8 45,324]

Thinking about it, and before you start I know Gerrard doesn't stray far from his 433, but with the players we have a 352 would be far more suitable. Gives Tavernier and Barasic free reign to push forward by having a more solid backline, another body in the box, Hagi in his favoured position and less reliant on clearly our weakest positions for depth, RW and LW. 

[BlueMe 25,327]

Just now, STEPPS BOY said:

It’s the wrong system for the players we have.

the 3 forwards all have to contribute with goals.

Kent, Aribo and Arfield had 15 between them.

 

He persists in playing players in a system that doesn’t suit them instead of playing a system that suits the players he had.

Agree with this to a point tbf, we do need to use the players better and play to their strengths more. Hagi is wasted on the right and clearly better going through the middle and Kent is better running at fullbacks. 

But at the same time, that system, with those players, worked well up until the break. The injuries and drop in form to key players played a big part imo.

 

[Jimfanciesthedude 25,635]

12 minutes ago, BlueMe said:

It's a myth that Gerrard never changes the 4-3-3 tbh - he's made poor decisions on when to change the system effectively and when to bring on subs etc, but he did change it plenty of times, and some times he fucked it.

The 4-3-3 is a 4-5-1 in defence, and in attack, it let's an attacking midfielder support the striker with 2 "wingers" cutting in and the width comes from our fullbacks.

Nothing wrong with the system imo - the bigger problems were injuries to key players and loss of form to others - add in Gerrards mistakes and we were fucked tbh.

The attacking mid couldnt support the striker though as they were told to start out wide and drift inside to create space out wide for a fullback

I dont understand the thinking behind us asking 

A fullback to do an attacking mid/wingers job

An attacking mid/winger to do a central midfielders job

A central midfielder to do a fullbacks job

Its fucking nuts

[Jimfanciesthedude 25,635]

3 minutes ago, BlueMe said:

Agree with this to a point tbf, we do need to use the players better and play to their strengths more. Hagi is wasted on the right and clearly better going through the middle and Kent is better running at fullbacks. 

But at the same time, that system, with those players, worked well up until the break. The injuries and drop in form to key players played a big part imo.

 

Or perhaps teams simply sussed us out, our form pre xmas wasnt the best always either, plenty of games we struggled and it took a bit of individual skill or a set piece to salvage it

[esquire8 45,324]

1 minute ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

The attacking mid couldnt support the striker though as they were told to start out wide and drift inside to create space out wide for a fullback

I dont understand the thinking behind us asking 

A fullback to do an attacking mid/wingers job

An attacking mid/winger to do a central midfielders job

A central midfielder to do a fullbacks job

Its fucking nuts

That's Beale-ball for you. Looks great when it works but absolutely terrible when it doesn't.

[BlueMe 25,327]

11 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

Yet we have 2 defenders and 3 sitting mids doing the exact fucking same, marking lyndon dykes

Our 433 has all but one player sitting in front of their 11, teams sussed our overlapping fullback and just flooded the centre of the park meaning our crosses mostly went to the opposition

I never once said play a 442 recently, i asked for it during the season as i was desperate for him to change anything just to freshen it up and throw off opponents, 

Right now, especially at home, we should be playing something like a 4132 actually have proper wide mids that will take on the fullback, go by them and drive towards the box forcing a centre half to come out and meet them, creating gaps in the middle 

What we seen post xmas was teams sitting with a bank of 5 knowing full well that tav and barisic arent good enough to skin a fullback, so they would just cross it nice and early to a lone striker in the box himseld against 3 big burly bastard centre halves

 

Breaking down a team playing with a 10 man defence will be difficult in any system we play tbh and i don't see how adding a winger who'll hit the byline and cross the ball into a packed box (the same as Tav and Barisic do anyway) would make any difference.

Creativity through the middle to create space, and drag out defenders, is more likely to work, imo.

[Jimfanciesthedude 25,635]

3 minutes ago, esquire8 said:

That's Beale-ball for you. Looks great when it works but absolutely terrible when it doesn't.

Yup, pre break teams started sussing it out, killie at ibrox, sheep away, few other games we struggled until we got the first goal then had a chance to play

 

[BlueMe 25,327]

5 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

Or perhaps teams simply sussed us out, our form pre xmas wasnt the best always either, plenty of games we struggled and it took a bit of individual skill or a set piece to salvage it

So we won?

celtic do this, and it's called a sign of champions, we do this, and we're lucky.

Hmmm.

[Jimfanciesthedude 25,635]

2 minutes ago, BlueMe said:

Breaking down a team playing with a 10 man defence will be difficult in any system we play tbh and i don't see how adding a winger who'll hit the byline and cross the ball into a packed box (the same as Tav and Barisic do anyway) would make any difference.

Creativity through the middle to create space, and drag out defenders, is more likely to work, imo.

The part about a winger is that once a man is beat it drags others out of position, if a winger skins a fullback and heads for the box a centre half has to come out and meet him, which opens up space

Right now we pass pass pass pass repeat for fuck knows how long in front of the packed defence until we shift it wide and throw it into the box, people used to laugh at zonal marking but it must be a piece of piss against us as we never commit any defenders, we simply hope they fuck it up

[STEPPS BOY 77,643]

12 minutes ago, BlueMe said:

Agree with this to a point tbf, we do need to use the players better and play to their strengths more. Hagi is wasted on the right and clearly better going through the middle and Kent is better running at fullbacks. 

But at the same time, that system, with those players, worked well up until the break. The injuries and drop in form to key players played a big part imo.

 

As proven, the system relies massively on Morelos and to a lesser extent Defoe.

When Morelos stopped scoring we stopped scoring.

[Jimfanciesthedude 25,635]

2 minutes ago, BlueMe said:

So we won?

celtic do this, and it's called a sign of champions, we do this, and we're lucky.

Hmmm.

Completely twisting the point, relying on a set piece or individual skill will only get you so far, 

And while i dont watch the tarriers their stats would indicate they win far more as a team than we do, their assists and goals are all spread about their team, they dont rely on one person or two players

[BlueSuedeSambas 56,434]

21 minutes ago, STEPPS BOY said:

It’s the wrong system for the players we have.

the 3 forwards all have to contribute with goals.

Kent, Aribo and Arfield had 15 between them in league.

 

He persists in playing players in a system that doesn’t suit them instead of playing a system that suits the players he had.

You need to be more direct in Scottish football, not in the sense of simply booting it long to a striker, but in the sense of how quickly you play through the lines.

I don’t think we move the ball anywhere near quickly enough in midfield. Too much slow, sideways passing and not enough vertical movement, passing and pace.

[BlueMe 25,327]

It's easier when people just agree with me tbh.

[BridgeIsBlue 66,820]

2 minutes ago, DBBTB said:

You need to be more direct in Scottish football, not in the sense of simply booting it long to a striker, but in the sense of how quickly you play through the lines.

I don’t think we move the ball anywhere near quickly enough in midfield. Too much slow, sideways passing and not enough vertical movement, passing and pace.

Watched some of the games in the Bundesliga and even mid table sides like Hertha can spray the ball about effortlessly. 

[eskbankloyal 19,446]

39 minutes ago, STEPPS BOY said:

It’s the wrong system for the players we have.

the 3 forwards all have to contribute with goals.

Kent, Aribo and Arfield had 15 between them in league.

 

He persists in playing players in a system that doesn’t suit them instead of playing a system that suits the players he had.

The 3 of then combined have less than Morelos in all competitions. And Morelos scored once post Xmas

[GersInCanada 7,775]

mafia are out of Europe and we are not. Gerrard is trying hard to build a football team which is why we get better results in Europe with opponents also trying to play the game.

Week after week in Scotland it is 10 man defenses. Aribo's equaliser  against Braga would never have happened in Scotland. Some hammer thrower would have brought him down. Likely result - a yellow to Aribo for simulation. That's what we up against.

Best solution is an 18-20 team league allowing those who will not go down to start to play the game as they will not fear getting relegated. That will not happen as it scuppers the broadcaster deal. Nobody in authority wants to do what is best for Scottish football.

 

[coopsleftboot 5,512]

23 minutes ago, GersInCanada said:

mafia are out of Europe and we are not. Gerrard is trying hard to build a football team which is why we get better results in Europe with opponents also trying to play the game.

Week after week in Scotland it is 10 man defenses. Aribo's equaliser  against Braga would never have happened in Scotland. Some hammer thrower would have brought him down. Likely result - a yellow to Aribo for simulation. That's what we up against.

Best solution is an 18-20 team league allowing those who will not go down to start to play the game as they will not fear getting relegated. That will not happen as it scuppers the broadcaster deal. Nobody in authority wants to do what is best for Scottish football.

 

Been saying this for years.  Free up teams to try and develop proper footballers who would regularly be playing against the best in this country rather than ending up in dogfights all over the second tier in Scotland.  No surprise to me we've had a steady decline since we shrunk the leagues.  The odd flurry by us or them in Europe emphasises the point.  But it's all about the money, and we're probably as guilty of that as anyone.

[bluenoz 32,526]

Hladky, Tapia, Benson, & Taylor. Those four and I will be happy as well as trying to get rid of the usual suspects.  And maybe Gyamfi if it is guaranteed he is better than Patterson although I kind of feel sorry for our youngsters.

[RM Monitor And Standards Officer 112,914]

2 minutes ago, bluenoz said:

Hladky, Tapia, Benson, & Taylor. Those four and I will be happy as well as trying to get rid of the usual suspects.  And maybe Gyamfi if it is guaranteed he is better than Patterson although I kind of feel sorry for our youngsters.

Fuck that. We need much better than they 4 albeit hladky would be decent number 2 behind shagger 

[bluenoz 32,526]

4 minutes ago, Rfc52 said:

Fuck that. We need much better than they 4 albeit hladky would be decent number 2 behind shagger 

Then give me your midfielder, right-winger & back-up centre forward. After all, it is a suggestion thread.

I would like Maric but it has gone quiet on him.

[TamCoopz 19,988]

2 hours ago, BlueMe said:

So we won?

celtic do this, and it's called a sign of champions, we do this, and we're lucky.

Hmmm.

Plenty of games we’ve played absolutely shite and won, then games we’ve dominated we’ve dropped points, it’s weird as fuck. You’re right though, doesn’t matter how scrappy, you get those 3 points then it’s happy days, sign of champions.

[RM Monitor And Standards Officer 112,914]

Just now, bluenoz said:

Then give me your midfielder, right-winger & back-up centre forward. After all, it is a suggestion thread.

I don't want back ups anymore. It now has to be players who will push the guys already starting 

[bluenoz 32,526]

Just now, Rfc52 said:

I don't want back ups anymore. It now has to be players who will push the guys already starting 

He would have to be some player to replace Morelos.

[RM Monitor And Standards Officer 112,914]

6 minutes ago, bluenoz said:

He would have to be some player to replace Morelos.

I said I want players who can push the players here. Not Greg Stewart trying to replace defoe and Alfie for example. 

[bluenoz 32,526]

Just now, Rfc52 said:

I said I want players who can push the players here. Not Greg Stewart trying to replace defoe and Alfie for example. 

I agree. We made at least 5 terrible signings last summer and now we are stuck with them.

Still, I believe we will bring in four more new signings. I would be happy with the ones I suggested but I love to hear other bears suggestions.