Not unhappy with Smith & McCoist

[Ace 3,556]

I am playing a bit of Devil's Advocate here .... just for debate.

This is the same Walter Smith who we were glad to see the back of when his tenure ended at Ibrox.

Remember WS spent ???????'s for the lure of Europe, he contributed to the massive debt we found ourselves in .... yet we are willing to let him loose again ??

McCoist is a totally untried manager at ANY level ... do we really want an untried & untested manager in charge, even if he is a legend. Yes, he does well with Scotland but that is a Caoching role ... this is a managerial role, very different.

This has all the same markings as the Dalgleish/Barnes dream team.

Also, if Smith is going upstairs, who will the players view as boss ... McCoist or the guy who he will run to for advice when he has a problem.

[cooper11 0]

Do you remember 9 in a row? I know Walter spent cash but we were also dominating scottish football, I do realise that we were no great shakes in europe but walter smith in my opinion is and always will be a LEGEND!

[minstral 5,375]

I am playing a bit of Devil's Advocate here .... just for debate.

This is the same Walter Smith who we were glad to see the back of when his tenure ended at Ibrox.

Remember WS spent ???????'s for the lure of Europe, he contributed to the massive debt we found ourselves in .... yet we are willing to let him loose again ??

McCoist is a totally untried manager at ANY level ... do we really want an untried & untested manager in charge, even if he is a legend. Yes, he does well with Scotland but that is a Caoching role ... this is a managerial role, very different.

This has all the same markings as the Dalgleish/Barnes dream team.

Also, if Smith is going upstairs, who will the players view as boss ... McCoist or the guy who he will run to for advice when he has a problem.

your right thats how we got in to debt and i think walter done a great job for us but towards the end he was not up to it.

[rfc_no1fan 13]

Do you remember 9 in a row? I know Walter spent cash but we were also dominating scottish football, I do realise that we were no great shakes in europe but walter smith in my opinion is and always will be a LEGEND!

I remember 9 in a row....... I also remember how he declared he was leaving mid season and cost the club a chance of winning 10 in a row.

[Danny 9]

I have to make a point:

Smith did a great job for us overall, but he did NOT overhaul anything. He took what Souness had did and continued it.

JUST LIKE PLG AND LYON.

This is a different kettle of fish. We are asking a manager to repair the charred remains of our club and restructure it again. Has Smith ever done that before?

I accept he had a great impact on the national team, that's the only flaw in my theory.

[BlueIsTheColour 35]

I hear what you are saying but you have to remember that with the money he spent he brought great things to Rangers. The only reservation i have about Walter coming back is that even with the great team he had during his reign he failed t make an impact on Europe. Whether that is going to be the same again remains to be seen and i hope it isn't but i just feel that maybe we could struggle again in Europe for the glory of the league again.

However i see that as a worthy sacrifice because the league is the bread and butter and Europe is just a bonus.

[Ace 3,556]

Do you remember 9 in a row? I know Walter spent cash but we were also dominating scottish football, I do realise that we were no great shakes in europe but walter smith in my opinion is and always will be a LEGEND!

Yes i remember 9-in-a-row but all i am doing is aking the question for the aid of debate.

Most people agree that the worst thing a player can do is try to relive old glories by returning to a previous club, the same must apply for managers.

[J_RFC87 762]

Good debate set up.

Imo, our major debt was a cause of DA, although WS got the ball rolling.

I agree with this:

Do you remember 9 in a row? I know Walter spent cash but we were also dominating scottish football, I do realise that we were no great shakes in europe but walter smith in my opinion is and always will be a LEGEND!

and

However i see that as a worthy sacrifice because the league is the bread and butter and Europe is just a bonus.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

I am playing a bit of Devil's Advocate here .... just for debate.

This is the same Walter Smith who we were glad to see the back of when his tenure ended at Ibrox.

Remember WS spent ???????'s for the lure of Europe, he contributed to the massive debt we found ourselves in .... yet we are willing to let him loose again ??

McCoist is a totally untried manager at ANY level ... do we really want an untried & untested manager in charge, even if he is a legend. Yes, he does well with Scotland but that is a Caoching role ... this is a managerial role, very different.

This has all the same markings as the Dalgleish/Barnes dream team.

Also, if Smith is going upstairs, who will the players view as boss ... McCoist or the guy who he will run to for advice when he has a problem.

This may surprise you Ace....but I share the concerns you have expressed.

My own choice would have been Billy Davies

[BABearacus 4]

WHAT?

has smith ever taken a pile of pish and made it decent?

Well,

lets see the world ranking of the scotland team before smith took over and the world ranking now

using the same BASE of players and,...international coach so therfore NO money

[cooper11 0]

I suppose only time will tell.. as I have said earlier whoever it is we must ALL get behind him and unite all Rangers fans and finally put an end to the backstabbing and bickering and put our beloved club back where it belongs.. lets leave the backstabbing to the other lot...

[minstral 5,375]

he should have won the ten, and once he told the players he was leaving that was it gone, and we will never have a chance to do it again.

[J-Maestro 11,952]

Think WS is a good manager but would be a step back, plus we're only so high because FIFA finally changed the ranking system so that USA can't be in the top 10 by just beating wee shitey teams.

[Ace 3,556]

using the same BASE of players and,...international coach so therfore NO money

That's actually an excellent point ...

And so is ..

the league is the bread and butter and Europe is just a bonus

[Danny 9]

WHAT?

has smith ever taken a pile of pish and made it decent?

Well,

lets see the world ranking of the scotland team before smith took over and the world ranking now

using the same BASE of players and,...international coach so therfore NO money

I totally concede this point.

However, why wasn't he as effective in Europe for us?

As Scotland manager he has to play continental sides, and has been pretty f*ckin' good.

Yet for Rangers, with a massive budget, playing European teams proved a huge obstacle bar 92/93.

How do you account for the discrepancy?

[Dillinger 0]

I am playing a bit of Devil's Advocate here .... just for debate.

This is the same Walter Smith who we were glad to see the back of when his tenure ended at Ibrox.

Remember WS spent ???????'s for the lure of Europe, he contributed to the massive debt we found ourselves in .... yet we are willing to let him loose again ??

McCoist is a totally untried manager at ANY level ... do we really want an untried & untested manager in charge, even if he is a legend. Yes, he does well with Scotland but that is a Caoching role ... this is a managerial role, very different.

This has all the same markings as the Dalgleish/Barnes dream team.

Also, if Smith is going upstairs, who will the players view as boss ... McCoist or the guy who he will run to for advice when he has a problem.

You have my backing on this post 110% my friend .

Amazing that amid all the celebrations following the little coup d'?tat <rattat> we've witnessed on the Copeland Road that some people are now falling over themselves to re-invent Smith as some kind of under-appreciated tactical genius who can miraculously turn us around <nooo> .

Anyone remember Walter's Champions League record? His injury lists? The disciplinary problems? The huge over-spends that paved the way for Advocaat? 10 in Row? Back to Back Trebles?

How about the The Black Week of 1994 when all the problems that are now crippling our Club first came to the fore? Did Walter concern himself with them then? <nooo>

I'm not blind to Walter's achievements, yes he won one heck of an amount of silverware (for which I'll always be grateful for <bouncy> ), and signed some awesome players (Laudrup, Goram, Gazza, Miko, McCall, Albertz ) but this ain't the 1990's boys. He does not have fifty million big ones at his disposal, not this time. Whoever takes this job does not have the luxary of spending their way out of trouble. Some smart guys ought to remember that.

Perhaps the reason why Walter is being so strongly mooted is because the Club Captain approves of him and that he is the Chairman's pal (as DM has publically stated on numerous). Ally is Walter's pal too remember?

Conspiracies at Ibrox? Never

[CanadianGer 1]

WHAT?

has smith ever taken a pile of pish and made it decent?

Well,

lets see the world ranking of the scotland team before smith took over and the world ranking now

using the same BASE of players and,...international coach so therfore NO money

I totally concede this point.

However, why wasn't he as effective in Europe for us?

As Scotland manager he has to play continental sides, and has been pretty f*ckin' good.

Yet for Rangers, with a massive budget, playing European teams proved a huge obstacle bar 92/93.

How do you account for the discrepancy?

I'm not sure what happened with all of that, Danny. I can't believe with the squad we had that we were really that much weaker.

At the time, I always put it down to the fact that the players were coasting a bit, week in week out playing teams who were much weaker and so as a consequence were unable to raise their game and play at 100%.

Whereas with the current lads in the Scotland team, they are mostly playing for teams that have to fight for every game - even Fletcher at Man Utd.

Does that make any sense?

[BlueIsTheColour 35]

I totally concede this point.

However, why wasn't he as effective in Europe for us?

As Scotland manager he has to play continental sides, and has been pretty f*ckin' good.

Yet for Rangers, with a massive budget, playing European teams proved a huge obstacle bar 92/93.

How do you account for the discrepancy?

I think it has alot to do with the fact that with Scotland his tactics have been to put everyone behind the ball and counter and try and win set pieces. But with Rangers in Europe he had too many attacking players to do that and therefore couldn't employ those tactics. He was forced to take on the Continental sides at their own game and that is not usually a game you win unless your side is full of that type of player. Ours wasn't. Also, the Gers fans wouldn't have stood for those tactics and would wanted to have seen us have a right go at them.

[minstral 5,375]

I am playing a bit of Devil's Advocate here .... just for debate.

This is the same Walter Smith who we were glad to see the back of when his tenure ended at Ibrox.

Remember WS spent ???????'s for the lure of Europe, he contributed to the massive debt we found ourselves in .... yet we are willing to let him loose again ??

McCoist is a totally untried manager at ANY level ... do we really want an untried & untested manager in charge, even if he is a legend. Yes, he does well with Scotland but that is a Caoching role ... this is a managerial role, very different.

This has all the same markings as the Dalgleish/Barnes dream team.

Also, if Smith is going upstairs, who will the players view as boss ... McCoist or the guy who he will run to for advice when he has a problem.

You have my backing on this post 110% my friend .

Amazing that amid all the celebrations following the little coup d'?tat <rattat> we've witnessed on the Copeland Road that some people are now falling over themselves to re-invent Smith as some kind of under-appreciated tactical genius who can miraculously turn us around <nooo> .

Anyone remember Walter's Champions League record? His injury lists? The disciplinary problems? The huge over-spends that paved the way for Advocaat? 10 in Row? Back to Back Trebles?

How about the The Black Week of 1994 when all the problems that are now crippling our Club first came to the fore? Did Walter concern himself with them then? <nooo>

I'm not blind to Walter's achievements, yes he won one heck of an amount of silverware (for which I'll always be grateful for <bouncy> ), and signed some awesome players (Laudrup, Goram, Gazza, Miko, McCall, Albertz ) but this ain't the 1990's boys. He does not have fifty million big ones at his disposal, not this time. Whoever takes this job does not have the luxary of spending their way out of trouble. Some smart guys ought to remember that.

Perhaps the reason why Walter is being so strongly mooted is because the Club Captain approves of him and that he is the Chairman's pal (as DM has publically stated on numerous). Ally is Walter's pal too remember?

Conspiracies at Ibrox? Never

great post.

[BABearacus 4]

WHAT?

has smith ever taken a pile of pish and made it decent?

Well,

lets see the world ranking of the scotland team before smith took over and the world ranking now

using the same BASE of players and,...international coach so therfore NO money

I totally concede this point.

However, why wasn't he as effective in Europe for us?

As Scotland manager he has to play continental sides, and has been pretty f*ckin' good.

Yet for Rangers, with a massive budget, playing European teams proved a huge obstacle bar 92/93.

How do you account for the discrepancy?

i may have to follow suit and concede the point to an extent regarding his record in the CL for us

i think the difference with scotland/rangers is clearly that at Rangers we demand/expect to win and therefore have to play some semblance of football whereas with Scotland we realise we are gash and can play with 10 men behind the ball and the fans support this

i guess all this proves is that we get in smith then tell him he has no money to spend

[BlueSkys 0]

Hope Chick Young is wrong on this one , remember the MASSIVE signing during the summer that never came off.

WS ? Legend but as stated took over a great team from Souness and went on from there.

McCoist ? Legend as a player and seems to get the best out of forwards (Millar) as a coach also probably a great motivator. (Not that you should need one playing for the national team.

As the old saying goes --- never go back.

This team is divided, poor and I would hate to think that in 6 months time we are talking about Smith / McCoist as the Rangers Dalglish / Barnes.

This team needs a Barstward as a manager right now ? someone like Souness (if not the man himself) even in the short term to knock heads together.

But no matter who comes in (Please let it be Monday) SDM is going to have to splash the cash.

Come on SDM DIG DEEP <bouncy>

[delparlane 5,757]

WHAT?

has smith ever taken a pile of pish and made it decent?

Well,

lets see the world ranking of the scotland team before smith took over and the world ranking now

using the same BASE of players and,...international coach so therfore NO money

I totally concede this point.

However, why wasn't he as effective in Europe for us?

As Scotland manager he has to play continental sides, and has been pretty f*ckin' good.

Yet for Rangers, with a massive budget, playing European teams proved a huge obstacle bar 92/93.

How do you account for the discrepancy?

I'm not sure what happened with all of that, Danny. I can't believe with the squad we had that we were really that much weaker.

At the time, I always put it down to the fact that the players were coasting a bit, week in week out playing teams who were much weaker and so as a consequence were unable to raise their game and play at 100%.

Whereas with the current lads in the Scotland team, they are mostly playing for teams that have to fight for every game - even Fletcher at Man Utd.

Does that make any sense?

Good points by both you and BlueistheColour. Perhaps Walter's success now is also due to the fact that he is older and no doubt wiser. Wattie's a smart man, and I'm sure he's learned a thing or two from his previous failings in Europe with the Gers, as is evident by Scotland's results during his reign. Hopefully we can conitnue to get good results in Europe, but if that's not in the cards I would still be happy to claw back some respect in the SPL this season.

Who knows - Ally knows a thing or two about scoring. Perhaps he is just the spark needed for the awakening of the magic that is... SEEEEEEEEEEEEEBO!!!

[Dado's Ponytail 0]

stop putting it down before it starts FFS. it may work brilliantly, time will only tell but im definately willing to give it a good chance. Smith worked/is working wonders with a scotland team that was utter pish before he came. at least they'll lift morale and if some of the foreigners arnt happy playing under him they can leave. foreigners and Scots can get on fine in the same team if the right manager is there to bring them together and i think smith and mccoist could do this. Some of the 9 in a row foreigners were honourary scots in the end. I for one cant wait till the Dundee Utd game now and hope to see them in the dugout when it arrives.

[Dillinger 0]

I have to make a point:

Smith did a great job for us overall, but he did NOT overhaul anything. He took what Souness had did and continued it.

JUST LIKE PLG AND LYON.

This is a different kettle of fish. We are asking a manager to repair the charred remains of our club and restructure it again. Has Smith ever done that before?

I accept he had a great impact on the national team, that's the only flaw in my theory.

Because managing a national team is different from managing a club, Danny. Ask Sven.

A national coach, and successful ones are no mugs BTW, and I include Walter in that category, gets to pick from and work with that country's best players on a regular basis. There is no call to to use the transfer market and exercise judgement there.

Walter has picked from Scotland's best, blended them to their strengths, then motivated and welded them into a coherant unit. I'm not saying its easy, and Walter deserves much praise for his efforts , but as you say yourself the task that Walter is being asked to do (we assume) is very different from the one he did in the 1990's. Even then, under close scruntiny, flaws are apparant in Walter's 9IAR record.

I for one have grave doubts about this Dream Team proposal (should it be true) .

[CanadianGer 1]

This team needs a Barstward as a manager right now ? someone like Souness (if not the man himself) even in the short term to knock heads together.

Absolutely agree with this.