eastcoastbear 122 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Morning all The other day, I took it upon myself to email the Captain of Clydesdale Rowing Club to enquire about the significance of the star embelm on the shirts in the pics in this thread. I have copied the reply below. The pic he attached to his reply is in the thread so there is no confusion regarding that. If anyone has any questions, I'm happy to go back to Chris with them. Cheers. I did not manage to view the photograph on the link you sent me, but I assume the picture you are referring to is the one I have attached. I am afraid that I cannot absolutely confirm the connection between Clydesdale ARC and Glasgow Rangers, however older members of the club are adamant that there is reference to Clydesdale members playing football within the minutes of committee meetings from that time, and that the individuals mentioned did go on to play for Rangers. Unfortunately I have never laid eyes on these minutes, and never will as they were unfortunately destroyed many years ago. Another issue confuses the matter in that the star you refer to is actually the emblem of the club next door to us, Clyde ARC. So, as I said, no definitive answers, perhaps more queries? Regards Chris Phillips, Captain Clydesdale ARC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
minstral 5,375 Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 Morning all The other day, I took it upon myself to email the Captain of Clydesdale Rowing Club to enquire about the significance of the star embelm on the shirts in the pics in this thread. I have copied the reply below. The pic he attached to his reply is in the thread so there is no confusion regarding that. If anyone has any questions, I'm happy to go back to Chris with them. Cheers. I did not manage to view the photograph on the link you sent me, but I assume the picture you are referring to is the one I have attached. I am afraid that I cannot absolutely confirm the connection between Clydesdale ARC and Glasgow Rangers, however older members of the club are adamant that there is reference to Clydesdale members playing football within the minutes of committee meetings from that time, and that the individuals mentioned did go on to play for Rangers. Unfortunately I have never laid eyes on these minutes, and never will as they were unfortunately destroyed many years ago. Another issue confuses the matter in that the star you refer to is actually the emblem of the club next door to us, Clyde ARC. So, as I said, no definitive answers, perhaps more queries? Regards Chris Phillips, Captain Clydesdale ARC well done eastcoastbear for trying to solve the mystery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManchestGer 351 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Nice pic, I had a book on the Rangers trophy room with loads of similar pictures. I may have to dig it up sometime Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastcoastbear 122 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 The home page of Clyde Rowing Club has a pic with a star in the centre of the shirts........... http://www.clyde-rowing.4t.com/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoyd 355 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoyd 355 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Different star Eastcoast! More points to it on ours Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastcoastbear 122 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Different star Eastcoast! More points to it on ours Well spotted McB. Hmmm? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoyd 355 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Well spotted McB. Hmmm? I guess chances are it would be the Clydesdale Bank Rowing club then? As the guy said some original (albeit lost) minutes mentioned our team? Great searching though, good to see someone interested in the past of the club Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoyd 355 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 I guess our star is the star of david? Seeing as apparently McNeil was jewish? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastcoastbear 122 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 I guess our star is the star of david? Seeing as apparently McNeil was jewish? Good point (no pun intended) young man!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoyd 355 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Morning all The other day, I took it upon myself to email the Captain of Clydesdale Rowing Club to enquire about the significance of the star embelm on the shirts in the pics in this thread. I have copied the reply below. The pic he attached to his reply is in the thread so there is no confusion regarding that. If anyone has any questions, I'm happy to go back to Chris with them. Cheers. I did not manage to view the photograph on the link you sent me, but I assume the picture you are referring to is the one I have attached. I am afraid that I cannot absolutely confirm the connection between Clydesdale ARC and Glasgow Rangers, however older members of the club are adamant that there is reference to Clydesdale members playing football within the minutes of committee meetings from that time, and that the individuals mentioned did go on to play for Rangers. Unfortunately I have never laid eyes on these minutes, and never will as they were unfortunately destroyed many years ago. Another issue confuses the matter in that the star you refer to is actually the emblem of the club next door to us, Clyde ARC. So, as I said, no definitive answers, perhaps more queries? Regards Chris Phillips, Captain Clydesdale ARC Thats a big shame that part there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoyd 355 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 More information. http://www.clydesdalearc.org.uk/index.php?...4&Itemid=34 Early members of the club are credited with involvement in the formation of Glasgow Rangers Football Club. The club minutes of the time complain bitterly of the amount of football being played by members of Clydesdale to the detriment of their rowing! Rangers acknowledge its rowing roots on a mural in Ibrox. This depicts a rowing scene on the Clyde at the Glasgow Green. Mural in the Blue Room at Ibrox depicting Clydesdale Rowers at Glasgow Green In 1872 the nucleus of what was to become Rangers FC, played their first match on the Flesher’s Haugh in “The Green”. J. Allan, in his book on the history of Rangers 1873-1923 writes; “In the summer evenings of 1873 a number of lusty, laughing lads, flushed and happy from the exhilaration of a finishing dash with the oars, could be seen hauling their craft ashore on the upper reaches of the river Clyde at the Glasgow Green. As keen then was their enthusiasm for the sport of rowing as it became in later years for the game of football; for these lads were the founders of the Rangers Football Club” In 1873, the year of Rangers official birth, the first Scottish cup final took place. Thats interesting, learn more and more as i read into it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
minstral 5,375 Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 More information. http://www.clydesdalearc.org.uk/index.php?...4&Itemid=34 Thats interesting, learn more and more as i read into it good stuff guys the more info the better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoyd 355 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Morning all The other day, I took it upon myself to email the Captain of Clydesdale Rowing Club to enquire about the significance of the star embelm on the shirts in the pics in this thread. I have copied the reply below. The pic he attached to his reply is in the thread so there is no confusion regarding that. If anyone has any questions, I'm happy to go back to Chris with them. Cheers. I did not manage to view the photograph on the link you sent me, but I assume the picture you are referring to is the one I have attached. I am afraid that I cannot absolutely confirm the connection between Clydesdale ARC and Glasgow Rangers, however older members of the club are adamant that there is reference to Clydesdale members playing football within the minutes of committee meetings from that time, and that the individuals mentioned did go on to play for Rangers. Unfortunately I have never laid eyes on these minutes, and never will as they were unfortunately destroyed many years ago. Another issue confuses the matter in that the star you refer to is actually the emblem of the club next door to us, Clyde ARC. So, as I said, no definitive answers, perhaps more queries? Regards Chris Phillips, Captain Clydesdale ARC In reply to this mate here is something interesting; http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/Scottish_F...hange-kits.html The first pictorial evidence we have of Rangers wearing a change kit comes from 1877 (see photo left). The white jerseys carry a six-pointed star and are believed to belong to a rowing club that several Rangers' players were members of. Also of interest are the elegant hooped hose, probably made of cotton and much lighter in manufacture than the thick woolen stockings that became standard in the 1880s. The sparse information HFK has managed to uncover to date suggests that when Rangers needed to change, they wore white shirts with their usual white knickers and home stockings until 1921. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlegKuznetsov 10,816 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Great pic M - wonder what that badge is ? Was there not a thread about the badge before D'Art? Something about a rowing club sticks in my mind but I could be wrong? There was no definitive answer. The rowing club suggestion seemed the most plausible. Moses, his brothers and other local lads were part of a sporting society who used to meet regularly in Garelochhead. Rowing was certainly part of their activities, but not exclusively. There are minutes attesting to this from rooms hired in the village hall. Luckily I've been able to access those minutes and have been granted permission to photograph them as part of my research into the founders and their life and times around these parts of Argyll. I think I've mentioned this before, but when I'm done and dusted I'd love to do an article for RM presenting the findings. My goal is twofold: firstly to present a much more detailed picture regarding the founders than currently available. And secondly to try and encourage The Rangers to do something about the shameful state of the resting place of Moses McNeil himself in Rosneath cemetery. The club had previously stated they would look into it - nothing has been done. Nothing at all. Great stuff mate. Good on you. If I have/find anything potentially useful to you, I'll pass it on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoyd 355 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Moses, his brothers and other local lads were part of a sporting society who used to meet regularly in Garelochhead. Rowing was certainly part of their activities, but not exclusively. There are minutes attesting to this from rooms hired in the village hall. Luckily I've been able to access those minutes and have been granted permission to photograph them as part of my research into the founders and their life and times around these parts of Argyll. I think I've mentioned this before, but when I'm done and dusted I'd love to do an article for RM presenting the findings. My goal is twofold: firstly to present a much more detailed picture regarding the founders than currently available. And secondly to try and encourage The Rangers to do something about the shameful state of the resting place of Moses McNeil himself in Rosneath cemetery. The club had previously stated they would look into it - nothing has been done. Nothing at all. Great stuff mate. Good on you. If I have/find anything potentially useful to you, I'll pass it on. I can't wait to see this article should be a very interesting read. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastcoastbear 122 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Different star Eastcoast! More points to it on ours Just noticed something mate. The star on the oar in the top pic in post 30 (pic is from Clyde Rowing Club) is also 6 pointed, same as ours. Given this, and what the Captain of Clydesdale Rowing Club said, I'm inclined to believe that the star on our strips is connected to Clyde Rowing Club. I also found the following which suggests that the star has particular significance to Clyde Rowing Club in that they have a "Star" award. http://b5.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?a...er=nialldarroch Confused? Me too!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoyd 355 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Different star Eastcoast! More points to it on ours Just noticed something mate. The star on the oar in the top pic in post 30 (pic is from Clyde Rowing Club) is also 6 pointed, same as ours. Given this, and what the Captain of Clydesdale Rowing Club said, I'm inclined to believe that the star on our strips is connected to Clyde Rowing Club. I also found the following which suggests that the star has particular significance to Clyde Rowing Club in that they have a "Star" award. http://b5.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?a...er=nialldarroch Confused? Me too!! Good spot mate! Its a very confusing one, why would the Clydesdale Rowing Club history claim they had the founding members of Rangers in their club, when it appears that maybe it was actually Clyde Rowing Club. Strange, but interesting! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoyd 355 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 http://www.clydesdalearc.org.uk/index.php?...4&Itemid=34 Looking at it, they must have been members of this Clydes ARC because of the CARC cup that resides in Ibrox! CARC Rowing Cup residing in the Rangers Trophy Room Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastcoastbear 122 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Still confused McB!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoyd 355 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Still confused McB!! me too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUEDIGNITY 34,078 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Morning all The other day, I took it upon myself to email the Captain of Clydesdale Rowing Club to enquire about the significance of the star embelm on the shirts in the pics in this thread. I have copied the reply below. The pic he attached to his reply is in the thread so there is no confusion regarding that. If anyone has any questions, I'm happy to go back to Chris with them. Cheers. I did not manage to view the photograph on the link you sent me, but I assume the picture you are referring to is the one I have attached. I am afraid that I cannot absolutely confirm the connection between Clydesdale ARC and Glasgow Rangers, however older members of the club are adamant that there is reference to Clydesdale members playing football within the minutes of committee meetings from that time, and that the individuals mentioned did go on to play for Rangers. Unfortunately I have never laid eyes on these minutes, and never will as they were unfortunately destroyed many years ago. Another issue confuses the matter in that the star you refer to is actually the emblem of the club next door to us, Clyde ARC. So, as I said, no definitive answers, perhaps more queries? Regards Chris Phillips, Captain Clydesdale ARC Got to have something to do with them, the only thing is the one on the Rangers outfit is six-pointed and the rowing five-pointed ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoyd 355 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 A reply from John at the Clyde Rowing. http://www.clyde-rowing.4t.com Hi A chap fro the daily record, who has been writing a book has been investigating this point the last two year. We were founded in 1865 and we have an early turn of the century photo which shows the rowing team in white tops and blue star. I think the number of points even matches the number in the rangers photos. Clydesdale have never had a pointed star. Clyde would have been their fierce rivals from the get-go so they wouldnt be in similar kit. A bit like the old firm but with no religion!!! The guy doing research found a sports newspaper of the times that specifically says the rangers players who started it came from Clyde rowing club. It wasmt just a rowing club on the clyde but "Clyde rowing club." He also looked at clydesdales committee minutes for the times and no mention is made anywhere in those books of any of the rangers names. His conclusion was that it was Clyde not clydesdale which started it. There would have been no religious influence, I think!!!! just guys messing about in boats. Some of the old photos show thousands packing the river bank at glasgow green to watch races. I guess pre-football, rugby etc, things must have been pretty boring for that to be the most exciting thing going. I hope that helps John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoyd 355 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 The team are wearing their rowing club tops in this photo! So finally we have confirmation that the stars are from a rowing club from Jim Hannah at Rangers. Tom Vallance is definitely the one in the middle with the lion badge on his top, as far as I know he had just recently received his first Scotland cap and this is his jersey the others are wearing the Rowing Club tops and not football tops or should I say the Star is from their Rowing Club I'm about to reply and ask which club it was for definate, but otherwise, at least now we know it was stars from the rowing club (not that we hadn't figured that out, but ya know, confirmation is good.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DecoLally 0 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 is this our first trophy if i can remember rite? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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