Ricky_ 893 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18521468relates to comedian Jimmy Carr using an tax avoidance scheme similar to the EBT oen at ibrox. It has drawn criticism from David Cameron, but the article also states it's fully legal.a few quotes from the article:According to the Times, Carr told an audience on Tuesday: "I pay what I have to and not a penny more."HM Revenue and Customs has said it is taking "firm action to protect the Exchequer from unacceptable tax loss".heres an interesting part....Under the scheme, an individual resigns from their company and any salary they subsequently receive is paid to an offshore trust.The individual then receives a small amount of that as salary and the rest as a loan, which because it can technically be recalled, does not attract tax. So, an individually, technically is no longer an employee, because he resigns. But he still does the work, and is paid in good faith i'd imagine (if there is no contract), partly in wages, and partly in offshore "loans".What does the labour leader say on the matter?Labour leader Ed Miliband said: "I'm not in favour of tax avoidance obviously, but I don't think it is for politicians to lecture people about morality."I think what the politicians need to do is - if the wrong thing is happening - change the law to prevent that tax avoidance happening."Good point. It's been stated RFC started using EBT's in 2000. Others known to have used such schemes are vodafone & BP. 12 years on, the issue is still dominating the news.Miliband makes a good point though... if you dont like it, change the law. Don't come chapping 10 years later with a crippling bill + a decades worth of interest, because you don't like the loophole.The Times is also reporting that Take That band members Gary Barlow, Howard Donald and Mark Owen have used another partnership run by Icebreaker Management Services.and to sum up the article:"We examine the implementation of avoidance schemes in detail and will not let any aspect of these cases go unchallenged."I think the case of HMRC and Rangers is very much just the tip of the iceberg, an iceberg which is likely to result in a change of law. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude 20,026 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18521468relates to comedian Jimmy Carr using an tax avoidance scheme similar to the EBT oen at ibrox. It has drawn criticism from David Cameron, but the article also states it's fully legal.a few quotes from the article:heres an interesting part....So, an individually, technically is no longer an employee, because he resigns. But he still does the work, and is paid in good faith i'd imagine (if there is no contract), partly in wages, and partly in offshore "loans".What does the labour leader say on the matter?Good point. It's been stated RFC started using EBT's in 2000. Others known to have used such schemes are vodafone & BP. 12 years on, the issue is still dominating the news.Miliband makes a good point though... if you dont like it, change the law. Don't come chapping 10 years later with a crippling bill + a decades worth of interest, because you don't like the loophole.and to sum up the article:I think the case of HMRC and Rangers is very much just the tip of the iceberg, an iceberg which is likely to result in a change of law.I'm starting to think that HMRC have decided upon a change of strategy after the whole debacle involving us. It might be easier to go after individuals that have avoided tax by setting these companies up rather than companies which have implemented tax saving schemes. I could be totally wrong here of course but something about the way its being 'aggresively pursued' now doesn't sit right with me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornabear 6,205 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Not to forget the wee ginger lemon was at it too.... and I bet there's thousands more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lau03143 84 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Similar isn't the same, so there's going to be technical differences between them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz92 966 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Not to forget the wee ginger lemon was at it too.... and I bet there's thousands more.Thousands is an extremely low estimate. The likes of the Virgin Islands have more businesses than people, some businessmen will do anything to avoid paying tax. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky_ 893 Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 Similar isn't the same, so there's going to be technical differences between them.well, each case is going to be like a fingerprint, no 2 schemes will be exactly the same in how they were implemented.@dude, your right, i was thinking about this today....RFC weren't the ones who pocketed the tax, it was the players/directors. If we paid a player £1m through the EBT, or if we paid him £1m through wages, it makes no difference to us. We still pay him £1m either way. It's the player who isn't paying the tax.imo, we shouldnt have been hit with the bill, if they wanted to recoup the money, they should be asking the players for it. If they are takign the stance that we are the ones at fault for the implementation of the scheme, why should we repay monies we didn't owe in the first place (the beneficiries are the ones who owe it, technicaly). So we should be facing some sort of criminal liability if thats their stance.I'm surem ost of us have had letters from HMRC giving us a rebate because they took too much from our wages, or charged us more 1 month because they didnt take enough previously. It always comes back to the individual though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ger50champ 300 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 all good stuff mate but you know what the headlines will be....'' David Cameron finds the use of such schemes abhorrent'' its a given in this corrupt Country Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
don logan 8,068 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Tax avoidance is a sport that has been around since biblical times. You would think with the many recent stories that this was a new phenomenon and quite niche but we all know it's anything but. From the tradesman who get paid in cash, to the bar staff who pocket their tips and the taxi drivers who put the meter off. It's rife and the vast majority would indulge if they felt they would get away with it.The tax system in this country is way too complicated and open to exploitation. As soon as it is revised or schemes are introduced, the top accountants pore over it looking for loopholes and inconsistencies. I feel sorry for Jimmy Carr here. He's been singled out purely for being well known and has been hung out to dry. David Cameron should have kept his gas at a peep. People in glass houses etc etc. What about his good friend who donated to the Tories yet barely paid a penny in tax due to his offshore status? Jimmy Carr is one of millions who play the system yet you'd think that both him and Take That were responsible for the country being in the grubber by the way this has been reported today. If I was Jimmy Carr, I would be mindful of the millions of pounds that my concert ticket sales and DVD's have generated in VAT when assessing my personal taxation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonbryce 63 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-18521468relates to comedian Jimmy Carr using an tax avoidance scheme similar to the EBT oen at ibrox. It has drawn criticism from David Cameron, but the article also states it's fully legal.a few quotes from the article:heres an interesting part....So, an individually, technically is no longer an employee, because he resigns. But he still does the work, and is paid in good faith i'd imagine (if there is no contract), partly in wages, and partly in offshore "loans".What does the labour leader say on the matter?Good point. It's been stated RFC started using EBT's in 2000. Others known to have used such schemes are vodafone & BP. 12 years on, the issue is still dominating the news.Miliband makes a good point though... if you dont like it, change the law. Don't come chapping 10 years later with a crippling bill + a decades worth of interest, because you don't like the loophole.and to sum up the article:I think the case of HMRC and Rangers is very much just the tip of the iceberg, an iceberg which is likely to result in a change of law.The law already has been changed. However the important difference between Jimmy Carr and the Rangers players is that the Rangers players were still employed by the club. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky_ 893 Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 The law already has been changed. However the important difference between Jimmy Carr and the Rangers players is that the Rangers players were still employed by the club.but the article above states that employees "resign" yet they still carry out the contracted work, and still recieve a portion of a wage.... (even though they are unemployed?) and receive the rest via an "offshore trust" in the form of a loan that doesnt need to be repaid. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonbryce 63 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 but the article above states that employees "resign" yet they still carry out the contracted work, and still recieve a portion of a wage.... (even though they are unemployed?) and receive the rest via an "offshore trust" in the form of a loan that doesnt need to be repaid.I'm aware of similar schemes from having people who try to get us to sell them to our clients. What happens is that the "employer" signs a contract with an offshore company to provide the work - a bit like employing someone via a recruitment agency. The offshore company employs them on minimum wage and loans them the rest of the money. Google "Managed Service Company" if you want to read more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritchieshearercaldow 22,158 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Tax avoidance isn't illegal, except when it's Rangers Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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