Nationalist Rangers Fans

[eastlothianbear 28]

Oh, undoubtedly Salmond is terrifically popular but i'd put it to you that his popularity isn't based on his 'brilliant' polices or glittering personality. It's largely down to a subtle change in media language and perception following the removal of Labour from power. Truely the difference was felt up here almost immediately and likely similar effects were felt in England. That Salmond is being associated with this feel-good factor is expedient. Cameron knows he's got no hope of gaining any kind of vote in Scotland so far better to keep things friendly with the slippery customer that is Alex Salmond.

As for independance you can be as entirely rational as you like. You can quote as many figures and statistics as you like. The fact is that a majority of people are opposed to the notion for no reason they can rationally explain and a minority of people, hey maybe just a minority of one, is opposed to the notion because they don't fancy giving these politicians too much freedom of action. Lets just say it's a balance of misery. Until politicians rebuild that level of trust which all of them erroded over the last 30 years, you can forget all but the most practical and pragmatic of policies.

To be honest I think folk vote for the union, because they have been brainwashed by the media. Remember the Sun in 2007, the noose headline. "Scotland won't survive if you vote SNP", the labour funded Daily Record. The BBC which is filled with labour members- kirsty wark, Brian Taylor etc.

Unionist will probably agree that Scotland runs health and education better than the UK Government. YET claim the UK government should control defence and the majority of other fiscal matters. Staggering stuff.

The union has been worse than a wonga loan for Scotland.

[Whyte N McKay 17]

To be honest I think folk vote for the union, because they have been brainwashed by the media. Remember the Sun in 2007, the noose headline. "Scotland won't survive if you vote SNP", the labour funded Daily Record. The BBC which is filled with labour members- kirsty wark, Brian Taylor etc.

Unionist will probably agree that Scotland runs health and education better than the UK Government. YET claim the UK government should control defence and the majority of other fiscal matters. Staggering stuff.

The union has been worse than a wonga loan for Scotland.

Kirsty Wark is labour? Right that's her off the MILF list...Brainwashing, or conditioning, of the kind you're talking about only really works on a minority who feel they have something to gain within the system. The majority of people are pretty much turned off by it all and they don't appreciate all the efforts that the journalists and TV personalities go to. They really do just care more about a football team or a popular singer.

Your idea doesn't really make any sense. Just because the SNP can manage a budget doesn't mean they should make descisions that mean life and death for people who are not their constituents.

I think this belief in independance is going to hurt the SNP and its supporters in the long term.

[eastlothianbear 28]

Your idea doesn't really make any sense. Just because the SNP can manage a budget doesn't mean they should make descisions that mean life and death for people who are not their constituents.I think this belief in independance is going to hurt the SNP and its supporters in the long term.

If the SNP made decisions on what wars the military of Scotland were involved in they would very much be serving their constituents! Currently we don't have a say on such issues so the reverse of what you claim actually true.

The UK has the third biggest defence budget in the world, it would be up to an independent Scotland to decide whether to continue with such an enormous outlay to defence OR to cut tax/increase budgets in other areas.

What makes you think Scotland(unlike every other country in the world is unable to make a these calls)

The elecrorate voted for the SNP and the vote to become normal. I can't see the returning party being anything other than snp or a new centre right party for the next decade. Labour can't ever be trusted and the lib dems are struggling.

[Whyte N McKay 17]

If the SNP made decisions on what wars the military of Scotland were involved in they would very much be serving their constituents! Currently we don't have a say on such issues so the reverse of what you claim actually true.

The UK has the third biggest defence budget in the world, it would be up to an independent Scotland to decide whether to continue with such an enormous outlay to defence OR to cut tax/increase budgets in other areas.

What makes you think Scotland(unlike every other country in the world is unable to make a these calls)

The elecrorate voted for the SNP and the vote to become normal. I can't see the returning party being anything other than snp or a new centre right party for the next decade. Labour can't ever be trusted and the lib dems are struggling.

Sorry. I misunderstood what you had posted. I didn't understand that you meant post-independance. I thought you meant that the SNP should have a control over the British Armed Forces. I don't really like speculating about the possibilities or the ramifications. If the SNP think doing so will help their cause then by all means speculate about how good it will be.

I have to say i think it's about 50/50. Half of the SNP votes were for them. The other half were against Labour. I wouldn't say Labour are finished in Scotland but they have been dealt a very serious blow which I don't think they have actually realised or accepted.

[eastlothianbear 28]

Sorry. I misunderstood what you had posted. I didn't understand that you meant post-independance. I thought you meant that the SNP should have a control over the British Armed Forces. I don't really like speculating about the possibilities or the ramifications. If the SNP think doing so will help their cause then by all means speculate about how good it will be.

I have to say i think it's about 50/50. Half of the SNP votes were for them. The other half were against Labour. I wouldn't say Labour are finished in Scotland but they have been dealt a very serious blow which I don't think they have actually realised or accepted.

Most of the SNP votes cam directly from the Lib Dems so this isn't true. The labour vote actually held up.

The reason the SNP vote went up bases on their record in government, and the publics trust in the party. IF the SNP can stamp out sectarianism and continue to run the country in the manner we have enjoyed, expect the yes vote to win confortably. Recent polls show a small majority in favour of normalisation. I would expect the yes vote to hit 65% when the truth relayed to the people of Scotland.

[Whyte N McKay 17]

Most of the SNP votes cam directly from the Lib Dems so this isn't true. The labour vote actually held up.

The reason the SNP vote went up bases on their record in government, and the publics trust in the party. IF the SNP can stamp out sectarianism and continue to run the country in the manner we have enjoyed, expect the yes vote to win confortably. Recent polls show a small majority in favour of normalisation. I would expect the yes vote to hit 65% when the truth relayed to the people of Scotland.

Yet Labour had to go to previously unheard extremes to do so. And in doing so exposed themselves for what they really are.

Well, I think 'stamping out sectarianism' is going to prove much harder to do since nobody can actually tell you what 'sectarianism' actually is. If you mean that by attacking our civil liberties they'll cement their middle class voting base, I agree but you'll also find that Salmond is also damaging his and his parties image. The carrot and the stick isn't really the wisest policy. I'll be surprised if you win your referendum and regardless of that, it doesn't actually guarantee you anything.

[eastlothianbear 28]

Yet Labour had to go to previously unheard extremes to do so. And in doing so exposed themselves for what they really are.

Well, I think 'stamping out sectarianism' is going to prove much harder to do since nobody can actually tell you what 'sectarianism' actually is. If you mean that by attacking our civil liberties they'll cement their middle class voting base, I agree but you'll also find that Salmond is also damaging his and his parties image. The carrot and the stick isn't really the wisest policy. I'll be surprised if you win your referendum and regardless of that, it doesn't actually guarantee you anything.

Any attack on the corrupt boom and bust debt merchants liers of the Labour party will always be met with agreement from me!

The bolded bit from yourself is bang right. However, I hope the government can strike a balance, one of the most famous corries songs talks about getting rid of bigots and fools. Personally I don't care if you call it bigoted or foolish, it's time as a country we developed and stoped moping around in the 19 century.

When I'm at Ibrox, an I see a fan wearing an england top, a william of orange scarf, singing FTP. I think Bigot. If others think its foolish thats fine, all I know is that I don't want it at my club. We are making strides at Ibrox, the PA's pre/post match choices have been better this year, long may it continue.

[Whyte N McKay 17]

Any attack on the corrupt boom and bust debt merchants liers of the Labour party will always be met with agreement from me!

The bolded bit from yourself is bang right. However, I hope the government can strike a balance, one of the most famous corries songs talks about getting rid of bigots and fools. Personally I don't care if you call it bigoted or foolish, it's time as a country we developed and stoped moping around in the 19 century.

When I'm at Ibrox, an I see a fan wearing an england top, a william of orange scarf, singing FTP. I think Bigot. If others think its foolish thats fine, all I know is that I don't want it at my club. We are making strides at Ibrox, the PA's pre/post match choices have been better this year, long may it continue.

It's maybe just a little sad that it took so long and things got so bad before something changed.

I'm of the opinion that this isn't really what a Government should be doing. These are not really Government issues. It's a social issue or it's a criminal issue. There the talk should stop. If you look at it from that point of view it'll never change because of the prevalent attitude that there is something inherintly wrong with basing your identity on your religious beliefs or who you understand yourself to be historically. The harder you push the harder the resistance gets. In any case the source of 'bigotry' is really Northern Ireland and they are decades away from a final resolution of that level of militancy which some people find so distasteful.

And if you really want to, quietly, or loudly, exclude these 'bigots' from Ibrox where are you suggesting that they go? Jail? Or would it get to the point where the 'bigots' become terrorists?

[WVB 2,560]

Any attack on the corrupt boom and bust debt merchants liers of the Labour party will always be met with agreement from me!

The bolded bit from yourself is bang right. However, I hope the government can strike a balance, one of the most famous corries songs talks about getting rid of bigots and fools. Personally I don't care if you call it bigoted or foolish, it's time as a country we developed and stoped moping around in the 19 century.

When I'm at Ibrox, an I see a fan wearing an england top, a william of orange scarf, singing FTP. I think bigot. If others think its foolish thats fine, all I know is that I don't want it at my club. We are making strides at Ibrox, the PA's pre/post match choices have been better this year, long may it continue.

Superb.

The single most ironic post I've ever read on here. Take a bow sir!

[eastlothianbear 28]

It's maybe just a little sad that it took so long and things got so bad before something changed.

I'm of the opinion that this isn't really what a Government should be doing. These are not really Government issues. It's a social issue or it's a criminal issue. There the talk should stop. If you look at it from that point of view it'll never change because of the prevalent attitude that there is something inherintly wrong with basing your identity on your religious beliefs or who you understand yourself to be historically. The harder you push the harder the resistance gets. In any case the source of 'bigotry' is really Northern Ireland and they are decades away from a final resolution of that level of militancy which some people find so distasteful.

And if you really want to, quietly, or loudly, exclude these 'bigots' from Ibrox where are you suggesting that they go? Jail? Or would it get to the point where the 'bigots' become terrorists?

Sensible reply. Thankyou.

Self Policing the first port of call. The problem is there are far too many at Ibrox/celtic/hearts etc that are not for changing. Self Policing works if SMALL section of the crowd are out of kilter with the vast majority. Imagine being a celtic fan and saying "hold the bus lads lets not be singing about the ira", you would get a lynching!

The Sfa have no powers to directly involve the police. So such is the massive nature of the problem, the government in Scotland have interveened. Started my labour under JM and continued by the snp and AS.

[Whyte N McKay 17]

Sensible reply. Thankyou.

Self Policing the first port of call. The problem is there are far too many at Ibrox/celtic/hearts etc that are not for changing. Self Policing works if SMALL section of the crowd are out of kilter with the vast majority. Imagine being a celtic fan and saying "hold the bus lads lets not be singing about the ira", you would get a lynching!

The Sfa have no powers to directly involve the police. So such is the massive nature of the problem, the government in Scotland have interveened. Started my labour under JM and continued by the snp and AS.

You'll find limited success dealing with the individual and questioning his or her views. Such a process, if people want to undergo such changes and there has to be willingness, takes years of self anaylsis and so on. To change patterns of behaviour, or rather simply to make people conform to what is socially acceptable, also requires a willingness which probably isn't there to a large degree. Personally, as I've been saying for the last week, opposing the bill is probably your best bet of tidying up the act of thousands of supporters if it's done correctly. Fuck up and you're getting nicked. Smarten up and you can GIRU Salmond and the Police at the same time.

The massive nature of the problem is unemployment and sub-standard living conditions and there the Government can do something within it's remit. It's complicated by the situation which exploded in Northern Ireland in the 1960's. That situation is vastly different to one of Irish Immigration into Scotland. What is happening at the moment is that the real problem, social isolation and exclusion and economic stagnation, is being hidden behind ham-fisted attempts to tackle a symptom which is sporadic violence. If Salmond tackles Aberdeen, Celtic, Hibs, Motherwell and Hearts fans he's gone one better than McConnell but he's still missing the forest for the trees.

[minstral 5,375]

Any attack on the corrupt boom and bust debt merchants liers of the Labour party will always be met with agreement from me!

The bolded bit from yourself is bang right. However, I hope the government can strike a balance, one of the most famous corries songs talks about getting rid of bigots and fools. Personally I don't care if you call it bigoted or foolish, it's time as a country we developed and stoped moping around in the 19 century.

When I'm at Ibrox, an I see a fan wearing an england top, a william of orange scarf, singing FTP. I think Bigot. If others think its foolish thats fine, all I know is that I don't want it at my club. We are making strides at Ibrox, the PA's pre/post match choices have been better this year, long may it continue.

What do you mean by making great strides.

[eastlothianbear 28]

Superb.

The single most ironic post I've ever read on here. Take a bow sir!

You do understand you gloating post lacks any semblance of structured connectivity.

[eastlothianbear 28]

What do you mean by making great strides.

It's a term often used to describe taking action for the better.

Glad to help.

[minstral 5,375]

It's a term often used to describe taking action for the better.

Glad to help.

So what part of our support offends you, just wondering.

[WVB 2,560]

You do understand you gloating post lacks and semblance of structured connectivity.

Can't argue with your logic, so I think you win by default.

[eastlothianbear 28]

The massive nature of the problem is unemployment and sub-standard living conditions and there the Government can do something within it's remit. It's complicated by the situation which exploded in Northern Ireland in the 1960's. That situation is vastly different to one of Irish Immigration into Scotland. What is happening at the moment is that the real problem, social isolation and exclusion and economic stagnation, is being hidden behind ham-fisted attempts to tackle a symptom which is sporadic violence. If Salmond tackles Aberdeen, Celtic, Hibs, Motherwell and Hearts fans he's gone one better than McConnell but he's still missing the forest for the trees.

While I welcome the SNP's vision to built council houses(labour built 6!) this is absolute nonsense. Wales has massive social deprivation yet it isn't a sectarian mess. The issues are not interchangable, however I do appreciate the point you are trying to raise.

The problems which have probably been mentioned on here for years start in seperate schooling, and idiotic parenting. There problems unquestionably do fester, and exacerbate with the respective football clubs.

[WVB 2,560]

So what part of our support offends you, just wondering.

People who wear clothes he doesn't like himself. Orange scarves (which I like) & England tops (not to keen myself, but there ye go).

I could have misunderstood him of course, some of his posts are just random words typed out in a line.

[minstral 5,375]

People who wear clothes he doesn't like himself. Orange scarves (which I like) & England tops (not to keen myself, but there ye go).

I could have misunderstood him of course, some of his posts are just random words typed out in a line.

Maybe he would like everyone to go about dressed up like something out of Brigadoon, and singing A Deer.

[WVB 2,560]

While I welcome the SNP's vision to built council houses(labour built 6!) this is absolute nonsense. Wales has massive social deprivation yet it isn't a sectarian mess. The issues are not interchangable, however I do appreciate the point you are trying to raise.

The problems which have probably been mentioned on here for years start in seperate schooling, and idiotic parenting. There problems unquestionably do fester, and exacerbate with the respective football clubs.

Yes, The Rangers have long been outspoken champions of the sectarian schooling system and I suppose Willie Waddell invented idiotic parenting through his promotion of domestic violence?

You're a mentalist.

[eastlothianbear 28]

So what part of our support offends you, just wondering.

Our support doesn't offend me. I don't like anything that glorifies the orange order and queen tbh. Not because I am against these institutions( I would want to retain the crown if we achieve normality) but I don't like to see it at the football.

I also find the fuck the snp rather cringeworthy, as the folk singing it are not the smartest.

I have enjoyed the changes in the last 6 months. Love Penny arcade etc.

[minstral 5,375]

Our support doesn't offend me. I don't like anything that glorifies the orange order and queen tbh. Not because I am against these institutions( I would want to retain the crown if we achieve normality) but I don't like to see it at the football.

I also find the fuck the snp rather cringeworthy, as the folk singing it are not the smartest.

I have enjoyed the changes in the last 6 months. Love Penny arcade etc.

What about Flower Of Scotland being sung, and fans dressed as if they have just came from Brigadoon. Is that any worse than the Orange Order.

[nemisis 358]

What about Flower Of Scotland being sung, and fans dressed as if they have just came from Brigadoon. And there's nothing wrong with the Orange Order.

Sorted that for you.

[eastlothianbear 28]

What about Flower Of Scotland being sung, and fans dressed as if they have just came from Brigadoon. Is that any worse than the Orange Order.

I'm sorry I don't understand you point, I suspect you don't either.

Your premise is that you find the wearing of the kilt, sporran, dress jacket, as being offensive?

Next we get the singing of the national anthem of our country- A song I don't like as its a bit dreary. But the lyrics don't at anytime say anything anti-english.

[minstral 5,375]

I'm sorry I don't understand you point, I suspect you don't either.

Your premise is that you find the wearing of the kilt, sporran, dress jacket, as being offensive?

Next we get the singing of the national anthem of our country- A song I don't like as its a bit dreary. But the lyrics don't at anytime say anything anti-english.

It is not the national anthem of your country.