Nationalist Rangers Fans

[Boab 73]

Independence stuff is based on the anti-English shite that runs through Scotland.

I refuse to consider otherwise.

You've just went right down in my estimations.

[OLE SUPER WILBERT 2,475]

You've just went right down in my estimations.

What he said was true.

[Boab 73]

What he said was true.

What he said was a nonsense.

[eastlothianbear 28]

Personally i'm very proud to be Scottish but i've always said that if you truly love your country you will always want what's best and what's best is our Union with England ,NI and Wales.

I would be interested as to why you think Scotland would be financially better tied into the union? Furthermore, why you think that London knows best when making key political decisions?

[simplythebest 11,453]

You've just went right down in my estimations.

As you have in mine recently, your obsession with people playing for Scotland that weren't born in Scotland borders on bigotry with the number of times you mention it, fair enough if you think it shouldn't be allowed but it is and it's a route that the national team is going down, time to give it a rest.

I'm not the brilliant when it comes to politics so of course there's always the chance i'm missing something that the SNP and the idea of independence bring. But there's far too much anti-English sentiment in this 'country' for me to believe that the vast majority who vote for Salmond and co aren't just thinking how great it is that they want to break Scotland away from big bad England.

[nachothelegend 1,932]

I would be interested as to why you think Scotland would be financially better tied into the union? Furthermore, why you think that London knows best when making key political decisions?

Check the Independence thread .

[eastlothianbear 28]

As you have in mine recently, your obsession with people playing for Scotland that weren't born in Scotland borders on bigotry with the number of times you mention it, fair enough if you think it shouldn't be allowed but it is and it's a route that the national team is going down, time to give it a rest.

I'm not the brilliant when it comes to politics so of course there's always the chance i'm missing something that the SNP and the idea of independence bring. But there's far too much anti-English sentiment in this 'country' for me to believe that the vast majority who vote for Salmond and co aren't just thinking how great it is that they want to break Scotland away from big bad England.

Let me put forward the case for independence.

The issue of self determination- Scotland makes up less than 10% of the population of the United Kingdom. Our elected MP's make up a similar proportion of Westminister. Therefore Scots don't have any real say as to what happens.

Wouldn't it be nice to decide whether to spend your money and mine on illegal wars, nuclear weapons costing billions of pounds? Remember we are utterly unique in that we are a normal country YET we let another country decide how we are run!

Relating things back to Rangers for a minute would you prefer

a) Having our budgets decided by a the chairman of Man united, having your buget slashed year after year despite showing tremendous financials and success

b) Have a seat on the board. Invest in the team and reap what you sow?

Next we have the figures

Scotland runs in Surplus. We make up 9.7% of the population, yet contribute more than this to the treasury.

Despite Scotland great figures- 32 years in a row of surplus/profit. The UK debt is sitting at over 1,000,000,000 pounds(yes).

Every man woman and child would be far better off if we were normal. On last years figures (£1,350 per head)

I really don't mind if folk can actually provide a good argument for the retention of the union, but any suggestion that "it aint broken", "it's served us well for years" etc is shite of the highers order. Scotland hasn't been served well in the union.

Ask yourself Why is the London based Mp's so keen to keep Scotland in the union? Not for tradition, but for the £200,000,000,000 they have received in oil revenues over the last 30 years. They are so desperate that they have started changing the sea boundaries. If I go down my local beach in east lothian I'm actually looking over English water! Let us govern ourselves, and see Scotland flurish.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Absolutely nothing like the european union dont talk shite your head is up your backside if you think that and we are in big trouble being part of it.

Youare more suited over on the other lots forum.

The other lot!!??

I dont think VB would have me!

[Boab 73]

As you have in mine recently, your obsession with people playing for Scotland that weren't born in Scotland borders on bigotry with the number of times you mention it, fair enough if you think it shouldn't be allowed but it is and it's a route that the national team is going down, time to give it a rest.

I'm not the brilliant when it comes to politics so of course there's always the chance i'm missing something that the SNP and the idea of independence bring. But there's far too much anti-English sentiment in this 'country' for me to believe that the vast majority who vote for Salmond and co aren't just thinking how great it is that they want to break Scotland away from big bad England.

First point, much more nonsense. Seems you can't understand my point, not my problem. Never been anti-english or ever bordered on bigotry; point you mentioned is; nah I'm not even going to spell it out for you. As I said, not my problem whether folk/you agree with me or not.

2nd, I can't fathom how you somehow think the only intention of independence would be to spite England, quite perverse.

[Boab 73]

Let me put forward the case for independence.

The issue of self determination- Scotland makes up less than 10% of the population of the United Kingdom. Our elected MP's make up a similar proportion of Westminister. Therefore Scots don't have any real say as to what happens.

Wouldn't it be nice to decide whether to spend your money and mine on illegal wars, nuclear weapons costing billions of pounds? Remember we are utterly unique in that we are a normal country YET we let another country decide how we are run!

Relating things back to Rangers for a minute would you prefer

a) Having our budgets decided by a the chairman of Man united, having your buget slashed year after year despite showing tremendous financials and success

b) Have a seat on the board. Invest in the team and reap what you sow?

Next we have the figures

Scotland runs in Surplus. We make up 9.7% of the population, yet contribute more than this to the treasury.

Despite Scotland great figures- 32 years in a row of surplus/profit. The UK debt is sitting at over 1,000,000,000 pounds(yes).

Every man woman and child would be far better off if we were normal. On last years figures (£1,350 per head)

I really don't mind if folk can actually provide a good argument for the retention of the union, but any suggestion that "it aint broken", "it's served us well for years" etc is shite of the highers order. Scotland hasn't been served well in the union.

Ask yourself Why is the London based Mp's so keen to keep Scotland in the union? Not for tradition, but for the £200,000,000,000 they have received in oil revenues over the last 30 years. They are so desperate that they have started changing the sea boundaries. If I go down my local beach in east lothian I'm actually looking over English water! Let us govern ourselves, and see Scotland flurish.

A fantastic post.

[eastlothianbear 28]

A fantastic post.

Ta.

I can still be swayed IF anyone can actually provide a sound argument to retain the union.....?

[sassaaaa 11,406]

Let me put forward the case for independence.

The issue of self determination- Scotland makes up less than 10% of the population of the United Kingdom. Our elected MP's make up a similar proportion of Westminister. Therefore Scots don't have any real say as to what happens.

Wouldn't it be nice to decide whether to spend your money and mine on illegal wars, nuclear weapons costing billions of pounds? Remember we are utterly unique in that we are a normal country YET we let another country decide how we are run!

Relating things back to Rangers for a minute would you prefer

a) Having our budgets decided by a the chairman of Man united, having your buget slashed year after year despite showing tremendous financials and success

b) Have a seat on the board. Invest in the team and reap what you sow?

Next we have the figures

Scotland runs in Surplus. We make up 9.7% of the population, yet contribute more than this to the treasury.

Despite Scotland great figures- 32 years in a row of surplus/profit. The UK debt is sitting at over 1,000,000,000 pounds(yes).

Every man woman and child would be far better off if we were normal. On last years figures (£1,350 per head)

I really don't mind if folk can actually provide a good argument for the retention of the union, but any suggestion that "it aint broken", "it's served us well for years" etc is shite of the highers order. Scotland hasn't been served well in the union.

Ask yourself Why is the London based Mp's so keen to keep Scotland in the union? Not for tradition, but for the £200,000,000,000 they have received in oil revenues over the last 30 years. They are so desperate that they have started changing the sea boundaries. If I go down my local beach in east lothian I'm actually looking over English water! Let us govern ourselves, and see Scotland flurish.

Great post , and agree totally........

[minstral 5,375]

Ta.

I can still be swayed IF anyone can actually provide a sound argument to retain the union.....?

Does Scotland not get more in subsides than it pays in tax, just wondering.

[sassaaaa 11,406]

Does Scotland not get more in subsides than it pays in tax, just wondering.

Thats what the English like to tell everyone .

OUR oil and gas has kept the UK afloat for decades , and is the main reason the English government want us to stay in UK ........

[eastlothianbear 28]

Does Scotland not get more in subsides than it pays in tax, just wondering.

No it has run in surplus for the last 32 years.

Where you are getting you thoughts from is the barnett formula. This is basically how the money is handed out the various "regions of the UK"

London gets the biggest handout but Scotland gets a larger share than most.

Think of like this.

You and your 9 mates put into a kitty.

You pay 30 pounds, and your mates all pay 10 pounds to make up 120 pounds. All pubs are closed so its time to divide the kitty. You get offered 15 quid back and your mates get angry that you are getting more than you deserve.

Now the disparity between what Scotland gives and receives isn't as big as my illustration, but the point remains. Last year it payed in 10.3 billion and received 8.9 billion. Some years its greater, others its less but its heavy in surplus. Hence, why the English are desperate for us to remain in the union.

[simplythebest 11,453]

Let me put forward the case for independence.

The issue of self determination- Scotland makes up less than 10% of the population of the United Kingdom. Our elected MP's make up a similar proportion of Westminister. Therefore Scots don't have any real say as to what happens.

Wouldn't it be nice to decide whether to spend your money and mine on illegal wars, nuclear weapons costing billions of pounds? Remember we are utterly unique in that we are a normal country YET we let another country decide how we are run!

Relating things back to Rangers for a minute would you prefer

a) Having our budgets decided by a the chairman of Man united, having your buget slashed year after year despite showing tremendous financials and success

b) Have a seat on the board. Invest in the team and reap what you sow?

Next we have the figures

Scotland runs in Surplus. We make up 9.7% of the population, yet contribute more than this to the treasury.

Despite Scotland great figures- 32 years in a row of surplus/profit. The UK debt is sitting at over 1,000,000,000 pounds(yes).

Every man woman and child would be far better off if we were normal. On last years figures (£1,350 per head)

I really don't mind if folk can actually provide a good argument for the retention of the union, but any suggestion that "it aint broken", "it's served us well for years" etc is shite of the highers order. Scotland hasn't been served well in the union.

Ask yourself Why is the London based Mp's so keen to keep Scotland in the union? Not for tradition, but for the £200,000,000,000 they have received in oil revenues over the last 30 years. They are so desperate that they have started changing the sea boundaries. If I go down my local beach in east lothian I'm actually looking over English water! Let us govern ourselves, and see Scotland flurish.

The last PM was Scottish, surely that wipes out what you're saying at the start there? John Reid who was a huge part of the war you're referring to, another Scot? Unless you mean something different when you're talking about Scottish politicians. Nobody has forced anybody to do anything, all decisions have been United Kingdom decisions and whether I disagree with them or not I certainly don't start whining about how we're poor wee Scotland hamstrung by England, i'll just look at the political parties, the leading figures and consider my future votes.

What you're saying is just what gives me the view point I have, it's an inferiority complex and a paranoia that Scotland are forced by England to do this and that when it's a load of rubbish. Whatever the differences in population if there was some sort of huge objection from Scottish politicians when it comes to decisions made on issues like wars then things would have been different, any decisions made are made by the United Kingdom, not England. This is the kind of shite bag view I mentioned earlier that I got from someone that the attack on Glasgow Airport was a reason to get independent as soon as possible, disgraceful comment in a time where the UK as a whole was attacked (the fact the attack failed to even harm anyone made it less of an issue but the intent was clear), just like the London train bombings the whole of the UK was attacked, not England.

The arguement you're putting there does involve some figures but it's still covered in patriotic pride and anti-English sentiment and that's where this whole independence issue comes back to for me.

But having said all that, fair play for trying to put across an arguement rather than doing a Boab and going off in a huff, blocking me from twitter etc. I'm not actually trying to attack you personally mate, I'm friendly with people who support the SNP and I don't fall out over politics, I rarely evem discuss politics because frankly I don't know enough about them, but when SNP and independence are discussed I have a very cynical view that at the moment I can't change and I always get heated enough about it to express. I just hope my view is a majority if/when a referendum comes about.

[eastlothianbear 28]

The last PM was Scottish, surely that wipes out what you're saying at the start there? John Reid who was a huge part of the war you're referring to, another Scot? Unless you mean something different when you're talking about Scottish politicians. Nobody has forced anybody to do anything, all decisions have been United Kingdom decisions and whether I disagree with them or not I certainly don't start whining about how we're poor wee Scotland hamstrung by England, i'll just look at the political parties, the leading figures and consider my future votes.

What you're saying is just what gives me the view point I have, it's an inferiority complex and a paranoia that Scotland are forced by England to do this and that when it's a load of rubbish. Whatever the differences in population if there was some sort of huge objection from Scottish politicians when it comes to decisions made on issues like wars then things would have been different, any decisions made are made by the United Kingdom, not England. This is the kind of shite bag view I mentioned earlier that I got from someone that the attack on Glasgow Airport was a reason to get independent as soon as possible, disgraceful comment in a time where the UK as a whole was attacked (the fact the attack failed to even harm anyone made it less of an issue but the intent was clear), just like the London train bombings the whole of the UK was attacked, not England.

The arguement you're putting there does involve some figures but it's still covered in patriotic pride and anti-English sentiment and that's where this whole independence issue comes back to for me.

But having said all that, fair play for trying to put across an arguement rather than doing a Boab and going off in a huff, blocking me from twitter etc. I'm not actually trying to attack you personally mate, I'm friendly with people who support the SNP and I don't fall out over politics, I rarely evem discuss politics because frankly I don't know enough about them, but when SNP and independence are discussed I have a very cynical view that at the moment I can't change and I always get heated enough about it to express. I just hope my view is a majority if/when a referendum comes about.

Why preach during debate about politics when you no little about it? Not your fault if you have no idea what you are talking about, but your jip is non-factual and atrocious.

Lets start from the top.

your claim- "If we have a Scots prime minister our premise of being oppressed dies a death"- Gordon Brown, spoke for himself, he is a leader of a unionist party. Indeed a party that has failed Scotland for ever. It's a silly argument.

Inferiority complex? England is slightly inferior to Scotland when it comes down to revenue stats. This is factual. Scotland btw is miles better that wales and even further ahead on Northern Ireland.

What interests me is you playing the anti-english card. A trick of unionist that no longer works. We are not anti-english/welsh/ni/anyone just pro our country.

[simplythebest 11,453]

First point, much more nonsense. Seems you can't understand my point, not my problem. Never been anti-english or ever bordered on bigotry; point you mentioned is; nah I'm not even going to spell it out for you. As I said, not my problem whether folk/you agree with me or not.

2nd, I can't fathom how you somehow think the only intention of independence would be to spite England, quite perverse.

It's not something I ever intended on attacking you about until you started going on about going down in estimation, and I see you blocked me on Twitter as well.

I have a cynical view of it but i'm entitled to that opinion, it's not an attack on individuals because i'm friends with people that support the SNP, I don't fall out with them over it and they don't with me. If there's a referendum i'll have my vote and just need to hope i'll be in a majority.

Frankly this has been discussed too much on a football forum as it is.

[eastlothianbear 28]

It's not something I ever intended on attacking you about until you started going on about going down in estimation, and I see you blocked me on Twitter as well.

I have a cynical view of it but i'm entitled to that opinion, it's not an attack on individuals because i'm friends with people that support the SNP, I don't fall out with them over it and they don't with me. If there's a referendum i'll have my vote and just need to hope i'll be in a majority.

Frankly this has been discussed too much on a football forum as it is.

How can you have a cynical view if you haven't a clue what you are voting on, or rational thought about each case?

[simplythebest 11,453]

How can you have a cynical view if you haven't a clue what you are voting on, or rational thought about each case?

Not sure what point you're actually making here.

All people of the right age are intitled to vote (provided they aren't in prison), there's no IQ test to decide how much you know about this or that. Not voting at all is looked down upon since it's considered a duty.

[nachothelegend 1,932]

Rule Britannia and God Save the Queen and the Union of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.

SNP =Socialist Fascist Party.

[eastlothianbear 28]

Not sure what point you're actually making here.

All people of the right age are intitled to vote (provided they aren't in prison), there's no IQ test to decide how much you know about this or that. Not voting at all is looked down upon since it's considered a duty.

Listen, I would never suggest you are too daft to vote. Indeed you are probably smarter than I am.

I'm suggesting you invest a little time in what you are voting for. Being a young fella in Scotland currently isn't easy, there are little jobs, the cost of living is rising, and it's very hard to get a morgage. Vote away if you want these things to remain, if being a unionist is more important than common sense. The rest of the county will vote with their head. I suspect the winning margin will be 70/30 in favour of being normal.

[nachothelegend 1,932]

There are plenty jobs out there just look for them and we have been over that topic beforeGod Save the Union and Rule Britannia.

[simplythebest 11,453]

Why preach during debate about politics when you no little about it? Not your fault if you have no idea what you are talking about, but your jip is non-factual and atrocious.

Lets start from the top.

your claim- "If we have a Scots prime minister our premise of being oppressed dies a death"- Gordon Brown, spoke for himself, he is a leader of a unionist party. Indeed a party that has failed Scotland for ever. It's a silly argument.

Inferiority complex? England is slightly inferior to Scotland when it comes down to revenue stats. This is factual. Scotland btw is miles better that wales and even further ahead on Northern Ireland.

What interests me is you playing the anti-english card. A trick of unionist that no longer works. We are not anti-english/welsh/ni/anyone just pro our country.

Delusion in the extreme if you believe that's the case for everyone, I perhaps am generalising but you can't deny there's still that element at least in some decent numbers.

And i'm confessing to not being one for political debates generally because I feel it's right that I do, doesn't mean i'm not intelligent enough to have an opinion on the matter, and as a Scot i'm certainly entitled.

Just to point out that this has moved away from the original topic and it's nothing to do with football teams that i'm debating over, if Rangers fans want to support the SNP then while I can't fathom it they're entitled and I have no more a bad feeling towards them than I do people I consider friends that support SNP, independence etc.

[eastlothianbear 28]

Delusion in the extreme if you believe that's the case for everyone, I perhaps am generalising but you can't deny there's still that element at least in some decent numbers.

TBH, I know of no SNP member that is anti-english/welsh/northern irish. They simply support their country.

What I find loads of is unionist supporters begging for a bite on this issue, trying to explain how salmond is is some way anti english because he helps you and me by getting us a better deal on you taxation. Thankfully is dying a death, and your voice will be lost against a backdrop of reality.

To love Rangers you don't need to be an orangeman, unionist, UJ wearer. You just need to bleed blue.

Now at least PLEASE provide a salient argument on why we should remain in the UK union?