Burst the Bank Dave

[Prso's headband 35,447]

5 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said:

We all know ( believe) the debt is to be in for a debt equity swap once we stort out the corporate shite that prevents that. King is putting in the levels of cash that we need to operate -  even using your own figures finding £3.7m  and getting folk to stump up £20m in soft loans for a Scots football club is no small undertaking. I don’t think there are many waiting in the wings to take over. 

Robertson may not be the man to pick a manager - that’s what Allen is for - I await to see what that brings. 

What corporate shite exactly? They’ve had 2.5 years to sort things and were in more debt than ever and keeping the lights on, on a quarterly basis. 

Rangers businessmen in Rangers are the absolute fucking worst. They all claim they want what’s best but they’re acting like they don’t care and never will. They’re imposters

[eosmhdo 1,879]

26 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said:

I think you’ll find he is investing and investing over a period of time - I don’t know if he is the man to lead us but he is (slowly) sorting out out the club infrastructure and deals and seems to be doing so in a sustainable manner. What do you want to do? Go back to using debt to chase our dreams and leave us exposed to this all happening again ? 

We all want a winning team on the park - risking the long term viability if the club is not the way to do it. 

It’s not what he said he would do initially to win the fans support is it? No one wants into a debt cycle again, he pledged we wouldnt with his cash and basically he has not brought his promises to the table. Surely you can’t disagree with this analysis.

[gj923 1,457]

We don’t need investment we simply need people to run us properly within budget and increase the turnover to 50m within a few years. The current board don’t have the skills or expertise to do this so I can see us sliding into mediocrity for the foreseeable future as the follow follow gang are happy with the current board. Just how long can Ashley be blamed for having pish poor sponsorship and commercial revenue.

[gj923 1,457]

25 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said:

We all know ( believe) the debt is to be in for a debt equity swap once we stort out the corporate shite that prevents that. King is putting in the levels of cash that we need to operate -  even using your own figures finding £3.7m  and getting folk to stump up £20m in soft loans for a Scots football club is no small undertaking. I don’t think there are many waiting in the wings to take over. 

Robertson may not be the man to pick a manager - that’s what Allen is for - I await to see what that brings. 

By corporate shite do you mean the lies that our Chairman told to the takeover panel and then withheld this from the fans and shareholders for more than a year?

[Reformation Bear 6,453]

I think Dave King is now running on financial vapour in terms of what he will put into Rangers.   If he loses his court case with the Takeover Panel and is forced by the courts to make the offer for shares that he has so far refused to make then it seems to me he'd need to find the cash to make that offer, cash which is not then available to invest in Rangers.   

If he loses the case and still refuses to comply with a court order to make the offer to shareholders I've no idea where that will put him.   Jail maybe for contempt of court?   Disqualified as a director?   Removal of his credentials as a fit and proper person perhaps?  Forced to sell his own shares and remove himself from any executive role in the Club......and he'd want his money back at that time?   I've no idea what remedies the court has if King loses his case and refuses to comply with court orders but it does seem to me that whatever he does may yet have a bit of impact on his role at Rangers.  Especially if he decided he wanted out and wanted his money back.   Until that case is cleared up I just do not see King being in any sort of position to 'burst the bank', even if he wanted to.

Therefore we are stuck with King and the other directors for the time being.    The outcome of the court case may start to clarify the financial landscape a bit more as King will have financial decisions to make - find the dosh to make the share offer; refuse to comply with a court ruling; decide on whether he'd had enough of his Rangers experiment and want out with his cash (loans repaid); press on and try and find some more money to invest in the Club.......there may be other options. 

I'm assuming that the Board will win the vote for Res 10 at the AGM.  So loans can be converted to equity .....the question will then be how soon.     And, I think, the pathway is then clearer for raising money by issuing more shares.     That'll be good in the sense of it raising much needed cash.   But think of the timing, say next Spring / early Summer.  Right bang slap in a period when folks could he likely to be seeing increases in personal taxation, increases in council tax, increased travel costs, inflation still running fairly high and with wages still stuck in the doldrums and so on.   Point being a lot less disposable cash for Supporters to shell out in buying Rangers shares.   And does King think he really can attract enough big institutional investors at a time when money may well be flowing out of the UK pre-exit from the EU?    It could be a very difficult year to raise cash from a share issue.

So to help fund a much better first team, far more capable of challenging properly for the title anytime in the near future maybe there will need to be some strong cost cutting at Ibrox as well.     For starters, the question should be asked about whether the whole development set up is really delivering or just endlessly talking of football jam tomorrow and tomorrow's first team players and eventual transfer sales rarely materialise and in any event not the amount to justify the whole development set up.  Maybe the savings in wages should be channelled into helping to get a better quality first team squad and when they win the league and when we access CL money then come back to building a development set up.   Right now that bet on development future does not look like it is going to deliver a decent return on the investment anytime soon.   For if it were, why then do we need to scout for loan players like those we already have and the 2 rumoured to be sought from Man U. 

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

2 hours ago, Prso's headband said:

What corporate shite exactly? They’ve had 2.5 years to sort things and were in more debt than ever and keeping the lights on, on a quarterly basis. 

Rangers businessmen in Rangers are the absolute fucking worst. They all claim they want what’s best but they’re acting like they don’t care and never will. They’re imposters

I know 2.5 years sounds long but it’s not with the shite we have to sort - we only just managed to put our scouting network back together for instance. 

Im not here to defend the board - I think they are shocking at communication for instance, but as you said they are keeping the lights on, they have invested their own cash ( even in loan form) so not all bad.

my ‘gripe’ is the expectation by some fans that we can just return to the top by spending cash, especially cash we don’t have. It’s a process and while it’s in uncharted territory for us it’s a process that needs time. 

I do agree it’s a process that needs the correct leadership but unless someone steps in this current board is all we have,but they are not nearly as bad as some make out. 

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

2 hours ago, eosmhdo said:

It’s not what he said he would do initially to win the fans support is it? No one wants into a debt cycle again, he pledged we wouldnt with his cash and basically he has not brought his promises to the table. Surely you can’t disagree with this analysis.

I also heard him say that cash would be invested over a period of time ( unspecified I grant you) and also from what is public info there is I understand investment is still difficult - so situations change. All people cling to is this £30m figure and ignore everything else when it suits. 

it doesn’t help going through two managers so quick either. Hopefully the DofF helps that. 

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

2 hours ago, gj923 said:

By corporate shite do you mean the lies that our Chairman told to the takeover panel and then withheld this from the fans and shareholders for more than a year?

Yep that’s part of it. I ain’t defending the board - but they are no where near as bad as folks make out - our impatience looks for targets, especially after a bad result, but many on here underestimate the task. 

[Bristoe1872 2,551]

King has no cash to invest. The man is a charlatan who did not even care that he put the very club at risk in order to get his mits on it. I have never trusted and will never trust the man. Without an outside party becoming involved and taking over the club,which is unlikely,i can see nothing in the future but more of the same. Savco are out of sight and getting more distant,they also control the Scottish media who hype them to staggering heights and over value their players to a degree that beggars belief frankly. Iv'e never known times as dark as this following Rangers,some folk bring up the early 80's but that period is not even close. We still competed then,still won the odd major honour. It's now six years since we managed that feat,and I can see that continuing indefinitely. Sorry for being so downcast,but I honestly can see nothing at the moment that gives me hope for the future at our great club. 

[simplythebest 11,453]

22 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said:

Yep that’s part of it. I ain’t defending the board - but they are no where near as bad as folks make out - our impatience looks for targets, especially after a bad result, but many on here underestimate the task. 

You keep going on about patience as per usual, I think most people accept that we couldn't realistically expect to be back exactly where we want to be at this stage 

What the support do fairly expect is to see a proper plan and signs of some sort of encouragement and progress, there's none of that at all. A new manager been and gone and millions spent yet we aren't any further forward than we were a year ago and look to be facing yet another rebuilding job 

[Johnny Dangerously 7,562]

Peter

The board are fuckin’ awful.

[Blue Avenger 22,567]

2 hours ago, Reformation Bear said:

I think Dave King is now running on financial vapour in terms of what he will put into Rangers.   If he loses his court case with the Takeover Panel and is forced by the courts to make the offer for shares that he has so far refused to make then it seems to me he'd need to find the cash to make that offer, cash which is not then available to invest in Rangers.   

If he loses the case and still refuses to comply with a court order to make the offer to shareholders I've no idea where that will put him.   Jail maybe for contempt of court?   Disqualified as a director?   Removal of his credentials as a fit and proper person perhaps?  Forced to sell his own shares and remove himself from any executive role in the Club......and he'd want his money back at that time?   I've no idea what remedies the court has if King loses his case and refuses to comply with court orders but it does seem to me that whatever he does may yet have a bit of impact on his role at Rangers.  Especially if he decided he wanted out and wanted his money back.   Until that case is cleared up I just do not see King being in any sort of position to 'burst the bank', even if he wanted to.

Therefore we are stuck with King and the other directors for the time being.    The outcome of the court case may start to clarify the financial landscape a bit more as King will have financial decisions to make - find the dosh to make the share offer; refuse to comply with a court ruling; decide on whether he'd had enough of his Rangers experiment and want out with his cash (loans repaid); press on and try and find some more money to invest in the Club.......there may be other options. 

I'm assuming that the Board will win the vote for Res 10 at the AGM.  So loans can be converted to equity .....the question will then be how soon.     And, I think, the pathway is then clearer for raising money by issuing more shares.     That'll be good in the sense of it raising much needed cash.   But think of the timing, say next Spring / early Summer.  Right bang slap in a period when folks could he likely to be seeing increases in personal taxation, increases in council tax, increased travel costs, inflation still running fairly high and with wages still stuck in the doldrums and so on.   Point being a lot less disposable cash for Supporters to shell out in buying Rangers shares.   And does King think he really can attract enough big institutional investors at a time when money may well be flowing out of the UK pre-exit from the EU?    It could be a very difficult year to raise cash from a share issue.

So to help fund a much better first team, far more capable of challenging properly for the title anytime in the near future maybe there will need to be some strong cost cutting at Ibrox as well.     For starters, the question should be asked about whether the whole development set up is really delivering or just endlessly talking of football jam tomorrow and tomorrow's first team players and eventual transfer sales rarely materialise and in any event not the amount to justify the whole development set up.  Maybe the savings in wages should be channelled into helping to get a better quality first team squad and when they win the league and when we access CL money then come back to building a development set up.   Right now that bet on development future does not look like it is going to deliver a decent return on the investment anytime soon.   For if it were, why then do we need to scout for loan players like those we already have and the 2 rumoured to be sought from Man U. 

Unless you were a fan, you'd need to be certified insane to invest in us with this board at the helm, so any thoughts in windfall I'd say are well blown out the water. 

The board will get their wish in preferential shares, undermining every other shareholder and the stranglehold on the club is complete and austerity in perpetuity.  

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

13 minutes ago, simplythebest said:

You keep going on about patience as per usual, I think most people accept that we couldn't realistically expect to be back exactly where we want to be at this stage 

What the support do fairly expect is to see a proper plan and signs of some sort of encouragement and progress, there's none of that at all. A new manager been and gone and millions spent yet we aren't any further forward than we were a year ago and look to be facing yet another rebuilding job 

I agree with most of that - I don’t agree with the thread sentiment of ‘bust the Bank dave’ That is not the way forward. I also sat elsewhere the board are poor communicators and only offer up the opinion that the only alternate to ‘busting the bank’ is Patience. Progress is very seldom linear. 

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Dangerously said:

Peter

The board are fuckin’ awful.

They may be - and yet the op would have them ‘bust the bank’ ? If you don’t trust the board you don’t want that and if you do trust the board you don’t want that - ergo one does not want this board bursting the bank. 

[Gaffbear 4,096]

We need a proven top manager and £20m to spend .

God knows where that will come from 

[City_of_Blue 565]

1 minute ago, Gaffbear said:

We need a proven top manager and £20m to spend .

God knows where that will come from 

Probably in my dreams tonight

[Johnny Dangerously 7,562]

2 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said:

They may be - and yet the op would have them ‘bust the bank’ ? If you don’t trust the board you don’t want that and if you do trust the board you don’t want that - ergo one does not want this board bursting the bank. 

They need to find investment from somewhere. It’s their job

[Gaffbear 4,096]

2 minutes ago, City_of_Blue said:

Probably in my dreams tonight

Its in my letter to Santa 

[City_of_Blue 565]

7 minutes ago, Gaffbear said:

Its in my letter to Santa 

Way to ruin the fat cunts Christmas

After these past 6 years, it would not surprise me in the slightest if our new chairman was Santa Claus

[Reformation Bear 6,453]

51 minutes ago, Blue Avenger said:

Unless you were a fan, you'd need to be certified insane to invest in us with this board at the helm, so any thoughts in windfall I'd say are well blown out the water. 

The board will get their wish in preferential shares, undermining every other shareholder and the stranglehold on the club is complete and austerity in perpetuity.  

Accepted it is very much  wishful thinking but maybe the director / financial landscape at Rangers or in relation (say) to European football leagues would change enough over time for other investors to start to become attracted to the prospect of taking big enough stakes in Rangers.  King is on record as saying he wants to step down as chairman.  The sooner the better imo and maybe some fresh thinking and more effective top leadership might be able to explore more creatively and vigorously options for raising more money to significantly improve the quality of players at Rangers.   

FC Lausanne-Sport is the latest outfit to see investment (from Ineos).  I'd never heard of the club before despite spending holidays in Switzerland years ago and admiring the way clubs were even in those days encouraging the game to be played.   If companies like that have some ambition to take a mid-table club and look to propel into a top 4 Swiss club and qualify for European football inside 4 years then the optimist in me thinks maybe some sort of similar intervention could happen at Rangers.  I know, I know its just wishful thinking but to an extent I hold on to the thought that somewhere down the pathway there might be decisive enough circumstances where bigger and better quality investors might see Rangers as an opportunity to advance their brand.    

If King and the board can not find significantly more investment and can only offer the football equivalent of financial loose change to just about keep afloat year after year then it strikes me the Support in general will increasingly start to thump the war drums.    There may as yet be no alternative to the directors but that won't stop increasingly louder and persistent voices of criticism and calls for action.    The media would be almost bound to jump on that bandwagon seeing the juicy target of directors stuck in the mire and unable or unwilling to go get more investment and just as unwilling to give up their controlling interests.     As AJ noted recently they are not deaf and blind.  The noise they'd be hearing and the sights they'd be seeing if years of mediocrity happen and watching the other lot get further and further away would, I suspect, make their positions less and less attractive and create the climate for them to look to sell up and move on.   The question as ever would be, sell to whom and would replacements be much better.    

In the meantime I can only hope that they have enough about them to appoint a really good manager because its that person who, in the immediate term, must find a way to take the first team squad and from whatever meagre transfer funds are to be made available and turn the team into a far far more competitive outfit.   A very tall order.   

[eosmhdo 1,879]

2 hours ago, Bluepeter9 said:

I also heard him say that cash would be invested over a period of time ( unspecified I grant you) and also from what is public info there is I understand investment is still difficult - so situations change. All people cling to is this £30m figure and ignore everything else when it suits. 

it doesn’t help going through two managers so quick either. Hopefully the DofF helps that. 

If you don’t have 30m available to hand don’t say it . It’s quite simple really. He said it and hasn’t delivered. Not clinging onto anything, just facts and quotes from him. You should try it, you’ll find out he talks shite.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

1 hour ago, Reformation Bear said:

Accepted it is very much  wishful thinking but maybe the director / financial landscape at Rangers or in relation (say) to European football leagues would change enough over time for other investors to start to become attracted to the prospect of taking big enough stakes in Rangers.  King is on record as saying he wants to step down as chairman.  The sooner the better imo and maybe some fresh thinking and more effective top leadership might be able to explore more creatively and vigorously options for raising more money to significantly improve the quality of players at Rangers.   

FC Lausanne-Sport is the latest outfit to see investment (from Ineos).  I'd never heard of the club before despite spending holidays in Switzerland years ago and admiring the way clubs were even in those days encouraging the game to be played.   If companies like that have some ambition to take a mid-table club and look to propel into a top 4 Swiss club and qualify for European football inside 4 years then the optimist in me thinks maybe some sort of similar intervention could happen at Rangers.  I know, I know its just wishful thinking but to an extent I hold on to the thought that somewhere down the pathway there might be decisive enough circumstances where bigger and better quality investors might see Rangers as an opportunity to advance their brand.    

If King and the board can not find significantly more investment and can only offer the football equivalent of financial loose change to just about keep afloat year after year then it strikes me the Support in general will increasingly start to thump the war drums.    There may as yet be no alternative to the directors but that won't stop increasingly louder and persistent voices of criticism and calls for action.    The media would be almost bound to jump on that bandwagon seeing the juicy target of directors stuck in the mire and unable or unwilling to go get more investment and just as unwilling to give up their controlling interests.     As AJ noted recently they are not deaf and blind.  The noise they'd be hearing and the sights they'd be seeing if years of mediocrity happen and watching the other lot get further and further away would, I suspect, make their positions less and less attractive and create the climate for them to look to sell up and move on.   The question as ever would be, sell to whom and would replacements be much better.    

In the meantime I can only hope that they have enough about them to appoint a really good manager because its that person who, in the immediate term, must find a way to take the first team squad and from whatever meagre transfer funds are to be made available and turn the team into a far far more competitive outfit.   A very tall order.   

So basically you ‘hope’ there will be an investor - ‘hope’ there is some one to take over? You seeem to advocate hounding the current group in the ‘hope’ they can be replaced? That’s a fairly poor financial plan. 

[gj923 1,457]

4 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said:

So basically you ‘hope’ there will be an investor - ‘hope’ there is some one to take over? You seeem to advocate hounding the current group in the ‘hope’ they can be replaced? That’s a fairly poor financial plan. 

Well it is certainly better than the financial plan of the current board which seems to be build up debt whilst investing in a pile of shite from Mexico. Robertson is so far out of his depth but we are relying on him to lead the club into generating millions in extra revenue.

[The Specky Forum Organiser 64,684]

Fuck Dave King and all his people

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

2 hours ago, gj923 said:

Well it is certainly better than the financial plan of the current board which seems to be build up debt whilst investing in a pile of shite from Mexico. Robertson is so far out of his depth but we are relying on him to lead the club into generating millions in extra revenue.

On what do you base that Robertson is out of his depth?