Paisleybear1872
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Posts posted by Paisleybear1872
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On 27/08/2017 at 2:16 PM, Copland bear said:
You talk one load of pish ? I have been to games over the years that Ibrox when the atmosphere has been second to none, yet according to you we have never had an atmosphere at all.
So the safe standing argument does not stick when it comes to Ibrox, And put your petted lip back in as your not getting it now or in the future.
Just maybe if we had a decent team on the park we would have something to shout about, we have taken 4 points out of 12 points and Ross County will be tough and we can't afford to drop anything more at this stage of the season.
And if the
Literally the most annoying thing to see in a debate over something is for someone to misrepresent the other persons argument to try and make their own sound better. At least engage with what is actually being said instead of inflating and exaggerating the points into something that wasn't said, doesn't look good.
PRW isn't saying "we have never had any atmosphere at all", that would be daft. It really doesn't need addressing how many games we have had a great atmosphere at, it's undeniable and obvious. A good team helps atmosphere, obviously yes but having a good team doesn't equal a good atmosphere, that is clear at some of the best teams in the world right now, especially in England, absolute morgues. There are things you can do to help the atmosphere which benefits the fans, the team and the club.
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2 hours ago, Cedrick said:
Today's game against Dundee was another indication to me that the safe standing area would be a complete waste of money if it's to be installed to create an atmosphere, the bottom line is against your dundees etc the fans just can't be arsed and for those think moving off our arse to a standing position will make today's game or games against Hamilton , Ross county etc a cauldron of noise are deluded
Being not in favour of safe standing is fine but this logic makes zero sense - 'The atmosphere wasn't great today so it will never be any better than that'. To add, nobody ever said that games against Hamilton will be a "cauldron of noise" or have the full stadium bouncing like you are insinuating - and that's not the argument being made for safe standing. Will the atmosphere be much better? Most definitely. Will it be more enjoyable? Most definitely. It's simple maths, a section of a couple thousand in a prominent position is louder and has better chance of spreading during spells, than a section of 500 in the worst corner of the ground. So you are replying to a point that isn't being made.
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List problem sorted with @BEE
Hadn't got to the very bottom of who put the name forward, wasn't from social media but either way wasn't their convenor so problem is still on our end imo. Happy to say that the bus has now officially decided to support safe standing though
- Mr Soprano and RFCstuart
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1 minute ago, Mr Soprano said:
Fwiw, our supporters bus had a poll.
Voted overwhemingly in support.
What's your RSC mate and I'll send it to be added to the next list if you's haven't already done so. Glad to see the support!
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Just now, BEE said:
Yes, my SC is listed and the boys that run it are none the wiser. Leave them to clear it up though. Just pointing out that some mongo on the internet saying, 'Add...' shouldn't be enough to produce something like that. Really amateur.
You're right about that, there's plenty RSC's that have been left out for that reason though so calm your jets. What's your RSC and I'll sort out where it came from and have it took off if necessary. Pm if you don't want to post it publically or that, just whatever suits.
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Just now, BEE said:
Right well where have you got the names? Have you contacted the bus conveners etc?
Began with e-mails and messages directly and then spread with people contacting us to add their support. Feel like you have a problem...
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2 minutes ago, BEE said:
Where's this come from?
Was released on our Facebook and twitter. List of RSC's in support now much, much larger.
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7 minutes ago, bigsasasfloopyhair said:
You're not getting my point.
Nothing against UB or making a better atmosphere.
My issue is how it will be allocated. Impact on moving fans from designated area. How fans will be consulted with or offered the opportunity to stand as opposed to sitting and that the whole process should be something engaging all season ticket holders.
UB are taking a lead role, but should not be given priority as a result of doing so.
What I've posted is what I personally believe to be the fairest way. I believe people choosing to move out should be given first choice on availability at no extra cost to their season ticket.
As you can see from my post it's not from taking a lead role that I believe we came into it, it's from being the section that has stood for years and holds the people currently most keen to stand and sing at Ibrox, and a section that is allowed to happen at grounds through leniency. It's really common sense to seek to move those same people into a 'safe' standing section. Obviously those in the area should be given the choice to stay or move IMO and then thereafter as I previously listed.
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14 minutes ago, bigsasasfloopyhair said:
see above posted 2 hours ago
Thanks, I take it back about the list of demands. The way it worked with Celtic and the way BF1 currently works is there is a fairly negotiated allocation given by the club and the way would happen on for this would again be on the basis of availability from people who don't move ( I strongly believe). The group's allocation would be together and it would be selectively chosen, from the front (honestly the worst view so I don't see how it would be a problem). I don't imagine an arrangement based upon growth, anyone who has any interest if ever being involved with the UB/atmosphere on a matchday will be looking to move if this eventually happens. I personally don't see a problem in that, it isn't really unreasonable.
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4 hours ago, Camshy said:
You for real, the majority of nonsense that comes from the broomie tends to come for the UBs section......the paper that day was thrown from that section, I was at the game and could clearly see it coming from BR1. Even after the ref stopped the match they still threw shit on the pitch.
I admire the support of these guys and that is most welcome as are the displays and the positive stuff they bring to a game BUT the indeniable fact is there is a troublesome element within that section which has to stop.
It's harder to hit the pitch from the BF1 than other sections never mind it being physically impossible to hit the goals where the problem was coming from with the keeper taking the goal kick. I'd honestly give you 100 quid if you could hit the goalpost with a bit of scrunched up A5 paper (paper aeroplanes don't count).
Just bizarre to blame the group for that
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2 hours ago, WeirFleckNRothen said:
Allowances to lob filled cups of Coca-Cola at away players taking corners.
Bastard, thought we already were allowed
Joke for anyone feeling a bit serious.
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18 minutes ago, bigsasasfloopyhair said:
Read on you will see.
Also I've never once said exclude the UB. I said they shouldn't be given first refusal because of raising the issue.
Feel like a fucking parrot here!!
You've not which is why you keep avoiding saying what the demands we would start making after safe standing are. You also began by claiming this is about making the UB feel more important about themselves. The UB was created to add colour and atmosphere to Rangers games home and away, the benefit of creating a better atmosphere is the benefit of Ibrox - the ultimate reason for our existence.
The order I personally believe it will go in is season ticket holders in that area will be told what is happening and be given the choice of staying or moving. Following that the club will give the group a fairly negotiated amount of the allocation that is left (don't worry the amount we get will be less than the amount that is left). The seats left will then be given to those who register an interest. I personally believe that is the fairest way and it's pretty much the exact same situation as Celtic.
To add this is all completely hypothetical, it may not be the CF although that seems the most popular choice and common example. We as Rangers fans have made massive strides in the past week but there is still a long way to go.
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2 hours ago, bigsasasfloopyhair said:
Read my posts, given my opinion.
Just because you start the chat doesn't mean you should have preferential treatment.
Just because you currently stand and sing doesn't mean you should have preferential treatment.
All fans are equal and as such deserve the right to be consulted on any change.
You've not said any demands anywhere we would make, just that we would "start getting all arses with demands." Shouldn't be too hard to give a quick list of the demands you imagine? struggling to imagine them myself which is why I'm so confused.
If you think Rangers are going to exclude the only section in Ibrox that has been standing at games for years and years - when you aren't actually allowed technically - from a newly built safe standing section then you are completely off your head to be honest.
Ofcourse all fans are equal but BF1 is the accepted standing section of Ibrox where those who are the most keen to stand and sing are. To exclude them from a newly built standing section for that very purpose, when the current arrangement shouldn't technically be allowed, defies all common sense.
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1 hour ago, bigsasasfloopyhair said:
Not at all. I'd bet when negotiations start the UB start getting all arses with demands.
That's not in the interest of the wider fan base.
What kind of demands do you think we would make like?
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3 hours ago, bigsasasfloopyhair said:
Why should the UB be given priority? They are individually no more a fan than any other season ticket holder and if treated as such then the club will ostracise many other supporters.
I don't expect us to get preferential treatment over anything but I'm sorry when it comes to this - we are the only section that stands in Ibrox and it would be absolutely bizarre for us not to be in the standing section.
That said, say for example it's CF which is the common example used, there would be more than enough space for the demand.
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1 hour ago, Copland bear said:
How is it? These things cost money and that's something we do not have in abundance right now, if we could magically win the league and get into at least the Europa league then I would say do both enclosures , but as it is we are skint so skint we do not have disabled toliets in most parts of the ground. That is a fact and to put this and other thing right in the ground is gonna cost money we do not have at the moment
Personally if we ever did go along this route I would want to fill in the corners properly also and put safe standing in corners , full Copland, both enclosures , full broomland stands and keep the Govan, main and club deck as they are.
The club would need to put this out to season ticket holders to see how many seats we would require, 12,500 if we done the corner and the new rear bit with the full Copland and east enclosure, they could also set up a site for fans to swap seats as I would move and I am behind the goal just over 3/4 of the way up, so I have good seats and would not want shitty seats in th Govan front row or something
But this cost money and sadly we have not got any. But if we were ever gonna do it then do it right
I would be literally shocked if it was put in the enclosures, I really, extremely doubt that's where it will go for so many reasons.
For what you mention about stadium redevelopment there will never ever be that many safe standing sections at Ibrox if I'm reading what you are proposing correctly, not even that many in Germany either where the sections are more popular. Although I do support replacing the screens with a seating area but that would cost 10x the amount of safe standing and would be far too many years down the line.
In the grand scheme of things it's not a lot of money and if you set a date in the future of say next season or the season after, the money over the period of time would be even smaller in comparison to the size of budget over that period.
I am sorry to hear about the conditions you have to face for taking your son to the toilet, so it's completely understandable why you are passionate about this. I can say that at any meetings the UB have had with Rangers they have brought up how awful the disabled facilities are at Ibrox and the serious need to change them, so I really do hope that happens.
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2 hours ago, K.A.I said:
I'm all for safe standing and credit to the UB's for pushing it but I just hope that if we do get it it's not an exclusive Union Bear thing like it's their section only
I'd like to watch the game from the standing section but no desire to be an ultra or anything so would be good if it's open to all
Yeah it definitely won't be exclusive and wouldn't worry about that. Not everyone in the standing section at Celtic is particularly interested in the GB, it's perfectly normal and ok for folk who just enjoy standing at football games.
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57 minutes ago, mchammer said:
I did not say there was thousands of UB members did I? And do not call me a fecking liar. I do not tell lies. Why don't you ask him yourself at the Hearts game. He will probably be standing in front of the UB's or BO trackside, or around the corner.
Hold on and I'll ask him is it true that mchammer said you don't actually like us.
Like PRW said, he doesn't even stand there. There's more than just David Martin who is head of security and I wouldn't believe that to be true because it doesn't reflect any dealings we have had at all.
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54 minutes ago, Copland bear said:
Well if we have £500k to spend , which comes first ?
It's not one or the other and it just makes you look ridiculous playing them off against each other.
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39 minutes ago, Copland bear said:
How about money ? We need disabled toliets also as it's a disgrace the lack of facilities we have , and the fact they are gonna get a right few quid in and will invest in their squad again the last thing we can do is wasting money ripping seats out. And as someone who sits in the Copland front they can fuck of with their stupid idea .
We need to dig deep,and fund the club again, maybe another share issue or a buyer as we would be a good club to buy as the premiership is just crazy now, but why waste money we don't have ?
53 minutes ago, Copland bear said:With no disabled toliets in the Copland and broomland stands and 1 in the Govan rear I think the club have other priorities first. Also any safe standing should be the east and west enclosures only . As for doing the Copland front? No thanks happy with the way the stadium is, we only need a team to produce on the park and give us something to shout about and we are still along way short of that.
But hey let's waste money on ripping out the Copland front and spend money that the club do not have.
How about asking the club to pay an extra £150 for adults £99 kids and concession to put the name on the back of your seats next season, they could do it in conjunction with season ticket sales and people can pay 4 instalments as the normally do for their season ticket with just a little extra .
We need money as the mhanky mob are all but in the champs league and with £5-7m for Van dijk as they get 10% of the fee, then the last thing I want the club to do is waste money when we need another 6 players of Dorran and Alves standards in our squad as they are gonna spend again and that spells,trouble for us.
It won't be in the enclosure's. It's fine if you are happy with Ibrox at the moment but a seriously large amount of people aren't because it's fucking awful at the moment.
A lot of money will be spent on improving Ibrox in different ways, regardless of safe standing. Dave King has explicitly said so as our facilities has been left to rot for years and improvements to Ibrox will continue to go on. This is part of that and is not a waste of money.
There isn't one person who supports safe standing that doesn't want a lot of money spent on the playing squad, but it's foolish to think that you can only spend money on the playing squad as money is being spent on Ibrox regardless, so that isn't happening.
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9 hours ago, Bad Robot said:
I think the UBs should be moved to a prominent standing section which should also be offerred to other ST holders but so far the UBs have continued to allow people to set off flares at Ibrox and beyond and until that stops how do you expect the club to trust you ?
Flares have never been set off on a matchday inside Ibrox by UB or Rangers fans, the only time I've ever seen it is Ibrox title celebrations when we've won the league away from home.
12 hours ago, JCDBigBear said:People go on about the atmosphere as it once was. When was that? I've been going to Ibrox for decades and the atmosphere has never always been great. It is an urban myth that the atmosphere used to be great. Certainly it has been unbelievable at some games but at others it has been almost non-existent. I think the UB are Ok sometimes and complete idiots at other times. I will repeat part of my previous posts: Will the UB proposal have sufficient numbers of fans willing to pay for season tickets to the value of those being displaced? Exactly how many are the UB talking about? Where do those displaced fans get relocated? If the club has cut off communication then the UB should use the SLO and Club 1872 to open some form of dialogue.
To be clear we aren't claiming we are going to get 50,000 singing against Hamilton on a average league game, but a couple thousand capacity safe-standing section in a more prominent area will create a greater atmosphere, that is more likely to spread, than 500 in the worst corner of the stadium.
Will the UB proposal have sufficient numbers of fans willing to pay for season tickets to the value of those being displaced?
It has always been a proposal that we have suggested and have always been aware safe-standing season tickets are going to cost more. I think there is definitely an appetite and believe that is being shown at the moment.
Exactly how many are the UB talking about?
Can't put an exact number on it because each location of Ibrox changes the number, for example you can't have CF1,2,3 safe standing and the rest normal seats because the safe standing section will block the view of the other sections for that side of the pitch. We do believe it has to be on a big scale so it is done properly and actually has the potential to change the matchday atmosphere for fans. There wouldn't be much point in another section of 500 because there is more appetite than that and us ourselves have more than outgrown our current section of 500. Celtic have roughly 3,000 I believe, it needs to be on that scale as well.
Where do those displacd fans get relocated?
Fans should first of all have the option to stay if they wish. After that, in my opinion they should be given first option on the available seats to move into.
If the club has cut off communication then the UB should use the SLO and Club 1872 to open some form of dialogue?
We have explored all avenues and everyone is receptive but we really need to be moving forward at a better rate. Club 1872 can only act upon the wishes of its members and have to poll a proposal before they can act on it and/or potentially lobby Rangers on it. Maybe with the current interest they will decide to do poll their members. If Club 1872 were able to do that, as the second largest shareholder I believe that would be extremely beneficial, but at the moment I personally believe they can't do too much we can't already do ourselves, which still leaves the current frustration.
7 hours ago, mchammer said:I did say thousands or so signed the petition so I do know there is not thousands of UB members.
And I remember the singing section wanting to expand and it was not allowed. They wanted
people to join the UB and BO and fill up the Broomloan but this was not allowed. Once again, security and
police nipped it in the bud. 50,000 could vote for it, don't see the security or police budging on
anything when they really want to see the back of them. This is not my opinion, this is what I
heard from the head of security myself regarding them not wanting the UB or BO there at all.
Just saying that I would love to see Ibrox bouncing more often but security and police will not want to accommodate
this petition no matter how many want it.
I will be very surprised if they do but it would have to come from the Rangers board to give the go ahead.
A headache they can't fulfil right now due to the expense.
I am not sure if the board can say go ahead as I am not sure how much authority they have given to the security and the police
regarding the safe standing issue but it does appear if they say no, then that is the end of the matter.
There isn't thousands of UB members and I honestly don't recall serious proposals to expand the Broomloan section. I don't believe for a minute any of the head of security said the things you have said he did about the UB at Ibrox and that is based on their actions.
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On 15/08/2017 at 6:24 PM, Ger_onimo said:
Seems a complete no-brainer really. Any idea of the cost involved OP?
Wouldn't want to be quoted on it but from what I remember a couple hundred thousand to the 500k range. It really depends on where they would put it and the size to be honest, there are quite fine details to it, for example, the stand needs to be made to a specific gradient where safe standing is.
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Just now, cushynumber said:
Have your emails just been ignored or put on the back burner? To be honest, typically when I talk to a customer who has previously been hot for a project and it's went quiet, there is one of two things that is the cause: the money has dried up or the internal politics has shifted.
We have points of contact with the club that we can go through more directly than e-mails. Our frustrations are more to do with raising this issue with the club for years in meetings and then having our most promising meeting with the right personnel at the club, to then not being up-dated properly and feeling a bit 'palmed off' with the follow-up meeting never happening; leaving us having no real answer to what is developing so we would know where we currently stand and wondering if we are potentially being kept sweet. So in our eyes we had no alternative but to go down a different route to campaign for support and demonstrate the desire for change at Ibrox because the issue is much bigger than just the UB.
I still personally believe we will have safe standing in the near future, it will just take more hard work is all.
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6 hours ago, cushynumber said:
any idea why the club stopped talking?
None. Following promising discussions earlier this year at a meeting a provisional follow-up meeting was agreed that never materialised.
Ibrox display tomorrow, Our City, Our Club!
in Jimmy Bell's Kitroom
Posted
No abuse just missing the point. Displays are for the team and nobody else. Tv is completely irrelevant.