Founders Trail and Stadium Tour 30th May 2010.

[AJK51 0]

For those of us that haven't the first clue about this apparent rift between VB and FF, what repercussions are in store for The Moonlighter if he decides to post the information on VB?

And then, if it is nothing to do with FF, why not just post the info on VB and be done with it? Sounds to me like a perfectly decent thing to do?

Sensible question.

Regardless of prefered Rangers Forum - We are all Rangers Fans at the end of the day ?

[4boysandabaw 3]

The Founders Trail Organiser(s) could, in a gesture of goodwill, arrange a Vanguardbears day out on the Founders Trail, for free.

[nemisis 358]

The Founders Trail Organiser(s) could, in a gesture of goodwill, arrange a Vanguardbears day out on the Founders Trail, for free.

You're funny

[4boysandabaw 3]

The Founders Trail Organiser(s) could, in a gesture of goodwill, arrange a Vanguardbears day out on the Founders Trail, for free.

You're funny

It would be a magnificent gesture, something that could sweep away all acrimony. I cant speak for VB, but Im sure the folk there would be delighted to recieve such an invitation. What about it Founders Trail Organiser(s)?

[Carsons Army 4,146]

Not much point is there

[thebooler 4,509]

The Founders Trail Organiser(s) could, in a gesture of goodwill, arrange a Vanguardbears day out on the Founders Trail, for free.

You're funny

It would be a magnificent gesture, something that could sweep away all acrimony. I cant speak for VB, but Im sure the folk there would be delighted to recieve such an invitation. What about it Founders Trail Organiser(s)?

And why should members on VB get it for free and the rest of us who are not members on VB have to pay for it, sensible idea as it may seem?

I also don't know, and don't care, about politics within our support, but my reading of this thread is that there is a divide/rift/breakdown in communication between VB and FF. Why is it being played out on RM?

[theweebluenose 4,335]

The thing I don't understand is why after the "oversight" of not advertising the Founders trail on VB has this not been amended? I wonder why?

[NOLUWDC 1]

For those of us that haven't the first clue about this apparent rift between VB and FF, what repercussions are in store for The Moonlighter if he decides to post the information on VB?

And then, if it is nothing to do with FF, why not just post the info on VB and be done with it? Sounds to me like a perfectly decent thing to do?

Sensible questions.

And to keep this on topic ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obKeQB68XrU

[maineflyer 2]

The Founders Trail Organiser(s) could, in a gesture of goodwill, arrange a Vanguardbears day out on the Founders Trail, for free.

You're funny

It would be a magnificent gesture, something that could sweep away all acrimony. I cant speak for VB, but Im sure the folk there would be delighted to recieve such an invitation. What about it Founders Trail Organiser(s)?

And why should members on VB get it for free and the rest of us who are not members on VB have to pay for it, sensible idea as it may seem?

I also don't know, and don't care, about politics within our support, but my reading of this thread is that there is a divide/rift/breakdown in communication between VB and FF. Why is it being played out on RM?

Everyone cares about the politics if it divides and weakens the supporter voice. This division between supporters organisations needs to be healed and that means discussion has to take place. But where else would it be played out? FF adherents won't post on VB and won't even allow the VB name to be mentioned on FF - so where else can this take place other than a third forum. In any case it's hardly threatening RM discussion space. Surely the only threat is to those who don't want open debate at all.

Look, I think every open-minded poster has seen over the last day or so where the problem stems from. One side is making open invitations to the other, while the other is blanking the first. I don't know why this problem exists but it's pathetic and petty. There was a terrific opportunity yesterday to build bridges and get beyond this daft affair but Moonlighter chose to ignore it for God knows what reasons. Therefore, perhaps it's time for those of us with a genuine interest in a strong, united support to finally acknowledge where the root of the problem lies and to expose it vigorously.

We've seen this same problem for years with the RST, which has struggled from day one to achieve an independent voice and to reach out equally to all supporters. That has definitely acted against the supporters' interests and is due in no small measure to the overlap between the RST and FF. Now it's the Founders Trail. If FF wants to dominate the supporters' voice then let it come out openly and say so. If that's not the case then please, stop interfering in the wider activities of the Rangers support. If the Founders Trail is a FF operation then say so - if it's not then the Founders Trail must demonstrate this by acting in an even handed manner towards ALL Rangers supporters, including those who choose to use only the VB website.

[outlaw69uk 123]

The Founders Trail Organiser(s) could, in a gesture of goodwill, arrange a Vanguardbears day out on the Founders Trail, for free.

You're funny

It would be a magnificent gesture, something that could sweep away all acrimony. I cant speak for VB, but Im sure the folk there would be delighted to recieve such an invitation. What about it Founders Trail Organiser(s)?

And why should members on VB get it for free and the rest of us who are not members on VB have to pay for it, sensible idea as it may seem?

I also don't know, and don't care, about politics within our support, but my reading of this thread is that there is a divide/rift/breakdown in communication between VB and FF. Why is it being played out on RM?

Everyone cares about the politics if it divides and weakens the supporter voice. This division between supporters organisations needs to be healed and that means discussion has to take place. But where else would it be played out? FF adherents won't post on VB and won't even allow the VB name to be mentioned on FF - so where else can this take place other than a third forum. In any case it's hardly threatening RM discussion space. Surely the only threat is to those who don't want open debate at all.

Look, I think every open-minded poster has seen over the last day or so where the problem stems from. One side is making open invitations to the other, while the other is blanking the first. I don't know why this problem exists but it's pathetic and petty. There was a terrific opportunity yesterday to build bridges and get beyond this daft affair but Moonlighter chose to ignore it for God knows what reasons. Therefore, perhaps it's time for those of us with a genuine interest in a strong, united support to finally acknowledge where the root of the problem lies and to expose it vigorously.

We've seen this same problem for years with the RST, which has struggled from day one to achieve an independent voice and to reach out equally to all supporters. That has definitely acted against the supporters' interests and is due in no small measure to the overlap between the RST and FF. Now it's the Founders Trail. If FF wants to dominate the supporters' voice then let it come out openly and say so. If that's not the case then please, stop interfering in the wider activities of the Rangers support. If the Founders Trail is a FF operation then say so - if it's not then the Founders Trail must demonstrate this by acting in an even handed manner towards ALL Rangers supporters, including those who choose to use only the VB website.

Very good post mate. I failt to understand why some individuals are seemingly intent on ensuring the support IS divided. Makes zero sense

[Iserdo 1]

The offer to post on VB still stands, but as yet, they have refused to even acknowledge the invitation. However we were told earlier, that the profiteer from FF has no involvement with the trail people. So I thought Moonlighter and others should know that others are trying to make a fast buck off of their efforts. If I were you guys, I would be concerned others are making cash from the pioneers name.

http://shop.ebay.co.uk/merchant/grandmaster_suck

T shirts being sold which casts doubts on certain people's claims that he's not involved. Now if someone was selling T shirts with VB on the front, I would be asking who they were? did they have permission? etc etc. I'm sure it's all perfectly innocent and the trail organisers had no idea this was happening.

Will you be posting the trail adverts on VB any time soon lads?

That is shocking.Why would anyone want to profit from our dead founders and the Rangers Supporters Erskine Appeal ?

[Adoniram 1,919]

The offer to post on VB still stands, but as yet, they have refused to even acknowledge the invitation. However we were told earlier, that the profiteer from FF has no involvement with the trail people. So I thought Moonlighter and others should know that others are trying to make a fast buck off of their efforts. If I were you guys, I would be concerned others are making cash from the pioneers name.

http://shop.ebay.co.uk/merchant/grandmaster_suck

T shirts being sold which casts doubts on certain people's claims that he's not involved. Now if someone was selling T shirts with VB on the front, I would be asking who they were? did they have permission? etc etc. I'm sure it's all perfectly innocent and the trail organisers had no idea this was happening.

Will you be posting the trail adverts on VB any time soon lads?

That is shocking.Why would anyone want to profit from our dead founders and the Rangers Supporters Erskine Appeal ?

Let's be clear about a few things here.

No one from VB is implying that the poster Moonlighter is profiting from the Founders Trail or the RSEA.

Without knowing who the other 2 colleagues are i personally couldn't comment.

VB members do not deserve special treatment and do not wish a free trip on the trail.We are all Rangers fans and will happily contribute should we decide to embark on said tour.

It has been said on many occasions that we do not wish to stand alone from the Rangers support and that is still the case.We get on very well with RM and indeed many other sites and it is this collaboration that has allowed the various groups to work together on a number of projects recently.

That same invitation goes out to Moonlighter and indeed any other group who wish to pull the resources of the Rangers support together and work as one for the good of the club and the support.

The offer is open and can be taken up anytime Moonlighter.

Rather than decry your efforts or get involved in a tit for tat situation why don't you take up our invitation and contact us privately if you so wish and lets get talking to boost your excellent project and ensure that Rangers does indeed come first AT ALL TIMES.

[Iserdo 1]

Adoniram mate,i wasn't implying moonlighter was/is profiting from the Founders Trail,but by the looks of it that other guy on ebay is!

[Adoniram 1,919]

Adoniram mate,i wasn't implying moonlighter was/is profiting from the Founders Trail,but by the looks of it that other guy on ebay is!

Ok no problem.

Just thought it best to clear that point up for all looking in

[4boysandabaw 3]

The Founders Trail Organiser(s) could, in a gesture of goodwill, arrange a Vanguardbears day out on the Founders Trail, for free.

You're funny

It would be a magnificent gesture, something that could sweep away all acrimony. I cant speak for VB, but Im sure the folk there would be delighted to recieve such an invitation. What about it Founders Trail Organiser(s)?

Tongue firmly in cheek at the "for free" comment.

[maineflyer 2]

The Founders Trail Organiser(s) could, in a gesture of goodwill, arrange a Vanguardbears day out on the Founders Trail, for free.

You're funny

It would be a magnificent gesture, something that could sweep away all acrimony. I cant speak for VB, but Im sure the folk there would be delighted to recieve such an invitation. What about it Founders Trail Organiser(s)?

Tongue firmly in cheek at the "for free" comment.

To be fair 4baab, I think everyone fully understood you weren't actually suggesting VB got anything for free.

[Adoniram 1,919]

The Founders Trail Organiser(s) could, in a gesture of goodwill, arrange a Vanguardbears day out on the Founders Trail, for free.

You're funny

It would be a magnificent gesture, something that could sweep away all acrimony. I cant speak for VB, but Im sure the folk there would be delighted to recieve such an invitation. What about it Founders Trail Organiser(s)?

Tongue firmly in cheek at the "for free" comment.

To be fair 4baab, I think everyone fully understood you weren't actually suggesting VB got anything for free.

I do hope the offers are being considered at the very least?

[Adoniram 1,919]

Your actions speak louder than words.

Another olive branch thrown back in our face.

Rangers first my arse.

[thebooler 4,509]

The Founders Trail Organiser(s) could, in a gesture of goodwill, arrange a Vanguardbears day out on the Founders Trail, for free.

You're funny

It would be a magnificent gesture, something that could sweep away all acrimony. I cant speak for VB, but Im sure the folk there would be delighted to recieve such an invitation. What about it Founders Trail Organiser(s)?

And why should members on VB get it for free and the rest of us who are not members on VB have to pay for it, sensible idea as it may seem?

I also don't know, and don't care, about politics within our support, but my reading of this thread is that there is a divide/rift/breakdown in communication between VB and FF. Why is it being played out on RM?

Think you have misunderstood something here mate. VB members don't want it for free, they will pay like everyone else does. They only ask they have the courtesy of being told about it, the same as any other website which Rangers supporters use. There is no rift between members of FF and VB either, just the owner of one website spreading filthy lies to protect profits.

Seems clear enough to me.

[nemisis 358]

Whats clear is, grandmaster suck, another name for mark dingwall, the owner and only profit taker from ff, is making money from the founders trail despite claims to the contrary.

[maineflyer 2]

Whats clear is, grandmaster suck, another name for mark dingwall, the owner and only profit taker from ff, is making money from the founders trail despite claims to the contrary.

Hardly the benign "Rangers First" operation we've been led to believe then? Perhaps Moonlighter isn't calling all the shots he claims either?

Why is that those who most readily claim the moral high ground so often turn out to be the ones with the most to be ashamed of. Moonlighter knew this when he fairly squealed in outrage yesterday. Bizarre and disappointing ... yet again.

[MisterC 12,468]

Whats clear is, grandmaster suck, another name for mark dingwall, the owner and only profit taker from ff, is making money from the founders trail despite claims to the contrary.

With all due respect nemisis, thats a bit of a litigious comment to make. I hold no truck with ££ and if it is the case what has emerged in thread is true in terms of not advertising on VB, then thats deplorable and hypocritical for someone who claims to be 'Rangers first'. Heres an idea why dont VB organise something similar, I'm sure a wee bit of competition wouldn't do any harm. Just a thought.

[sonOwilliam 0]

Just a pity it isn't open to all Rangers fans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Advertised on here and other Rangers sites.

It also had a two page feature in the Rangers News and was covered by BBC Alba.

I think it's fair to assume that posters from Vanguard frequent Rangers Media, so that saved me the bother.

Thats lies!

[Crabman 0]

Just a pity it isn't open to all Rangers fans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Advertised on here and other Rangers sites.

It also had a two page feature in the Rangers News and was covered by BBC Alba.

I think it's fair to assume that posters from Vanguard frequent Rangers Media, so that saved me the bother.

Thats lies!

Which part?

[outlaw69uk 123]

Whats clear is, grandmaster suck, another name for mark dingwall, the owner and only profit taker from ff, is making money from the founders trail despite claims to the contrary.

With all due respect nemisis, thats a bit of a litigious comment to make. I hold no truck with ££ and if it is the case what has emerged in thread is true in terms of not advertising on VB, then thats deplorable and hypocritical for someone who claims to be 'Rangers first'. Heres an idea why dont VB organise something similar, I'm sure a wee bit of competition wouldn't do any harm. Just a thought.

Shouldnt need to should they? All inclusive and something for ALL Bears