The Founders Trail and Ibrox Stadium Tour 2010. Autumn Dates.

[Coisty355 1]

I don't know why people bother to enter threads with the sole intention of badmouthing the people or the project for which it was started ! The OP has never once badmouthed the William McBeath project which was undertaken by people on here and from VB, and in fact he refers to this during his tour, i thought it was fantastic project and i hope the same people are continuing with their research in the same way the " Founders " guys are doing with theirs.

Can we not just knock this stupid " Us and Them " thing on the head ! as the Moonlighter has said on many occasions, He is not putting any of the " profits " into his pocket and none of it is going into MD's pocket either. FACT.

so come on guys instead of the bickering, get yer Arse on one of these Tours and see what it's all about.

and then and only then if you Don't like it, or feel ripped off, you can on and discuss your views. end of rant.

So MD makes no money from this, despite me posting a link showing him profiteering again?

There are three guys who run the Trails. Mark Dingwall isn't one of them.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Either way I'm sick of hearing about this and so what if money is being made, what about the money spent on research etc.

Indeed, every thread about the Trail gets ruined, I wish admin would do something about it, it's spoiling RM.

[TheMoonlighter 499]

Ah.

So it IS all about the inter-webstie squabble.

Thought as much.

Moving on.

We've sold out the Founders Trail for July 18th but may be announcing an extra date in July this week.

I'll post details when i have more information.

Thanks for all the interest shown.

No, it's about people like you who deny there's any money being made, when you actually do make cash from it. Now I'll ask you again... Did you make any cash from the Ralston book when selling it outside Ibrox or not?

Do you make money from bus ticket sales?

Do you make cash from T shirt sales?

Did you permit the selling of memorabilia on Ebay?

All very straight forward questions and I'm sure you'll have no problem answering. Unlike the request to post your tours on Vanguardbears, which for some reason you ignored or missed by accident.

If i'm as much of a crook as you're making out why do you want me anywhere near your site ?

Also a straight forward question which you'll have no problem answering.

For a while on here you were accusing me of being someone else, glad the peeny eventually dropped.

The books were purchased at cost from the publisher , they were all signed by the author and sold to Rangers supporters , i actually saved them money.

Every single penny made goes back into the Founders Research.

It's a good news story, is that what's annoying people ?

[MisterC 12,487]

I don't know why people bother to enter threads with the sole intention of badmouthing the people or the project for which it was started ! The OP has never once badmouthed the William McBeath project which was undertaken by people on here and from VB, and in fact he refers to this during his tour, i thought it was fantastic project and i hope the same people are continuing with their research in the same way the " Founders " guys are doing with theirs.

Can we not just knock this stupid " Us and Them " thing on the head ! as the Moonlighter has said on many occasions, He is not putting any of the " profits " into his pocket and none of it is going into MD's pocket either. FACT.

so come on guys instead of the bickering, get yer Arse on one of these Tours and see what it's all about.

and then and only then if you Don't like it, or feel ripped off, you can on and discuss your views. end of rant.

Seems to me and possibly others the only reason the guys from VB are so pissed off with this is because the organisers didnt advertise this on their website. Either way I'm sick of hearing about this and so what if money is being made, what about the money spent on research etc.

I'm not representing a website, merely expressing my own opinions. I gave up my duties with VB a long time ago, just so you know and get your facts right from now on. Moonlighter knows the truth about profits and so do I.

Duly noted

[McBoyd 355]

Can I suggest you stop being so naive and learn to look at the bigger picture when not studying for your degree If you honestly believe they are making this amount, then feckin god help this country if you are the future. No one asked these people to start a trail, they did this of their own accord.

Now I'm all for learning and teaching about our history, but let me assure you of something. When profiteers get their greedy mitts on these things, you can be assured the cash is being put in pocketsof individuals. Of course they deny all knowledge of it, simply because they don't want you to know.

Invitation still open Le Bluebear / Moonlighter to post your tours on VB. Or are you still being controlled from profiteering HQ?

Im not studying for anything, I've already graduated thank you.

If you read it again you'll see I was referring to friends, who have in years gone by, needed funding for historical research. If you look close you might see where the relation is in this context.

I'm not sure how you can assume from two replies on an internet forum that 'me being the future of this country' is a bad thing, you must be a hell of a psychoanalyst to work that out.

They have said themselves they make a small profit, of which is put back into the funding. I'm not sure how you are missing that everytime?

I'm still failing to see your issue, past the obvious intersite anger towards them.

At the end of the day we are all Rangers fans.

[caseyjones 3,009]

I find this extremely odd.

I've been on various websites over the years and i've yet to find one thread having a go at the guys outside Ibrox or any other football ground who sell T-shirts, Scarves, Hats, Fanzines, Badges etc etc .

I've had Founders Polo Shirts and Tshirts made, because punters asked for them, i make a tiny wee bit of profit on them which goes straight back into the research behind the project,but my project is being targetted on here.

Why is that ?

Is it really down to this supposed inter-website squabble that i have scant knowledge of and have had no part of ?

Why don't you try being positive ( i know that's a big step for some ) and put our Founders and Rangers first instead of yourselves ?

You are doing a great job with this project and the time and effort that you have put into it is outstanding, and if you make a profit from it, good for you.

Your refusal to advertise the tours on the VB website, rightly or wrongly, looked like you were taking sides in these inter-website squabbles and you must have known that there would be a backlash. You use FF often enough to see that you would be tarred with the same 'conflict of interest' brush as MD.

Anyway, keep up the good work and I hope to be able to go on the tour in the near future.

[TheMoonlighter 499]

Psst, don't tell anyone but there's a guy going around Rangers pubs selling small metal Blue Stars , like the one on our jersey from the 1877 SC Final.

You know what ? that's marvellous.

It gets the story out even further.

It's commonly referred to as a spin-off from a popular venture.

Best of luck to him and anyone else who takes this product out to the punters. wither it be t-shirts, Polo Shirts, Books etc etc.

Our research comes at a cost but we will continue, there's a long road to travel yet.

The only people who'll benfit from it long-term are Rangers and that's what we're all here for after all.

Isn't it ?

[AMMS 27]

This thread has taken a bizarre turn, and I never had Willhelm pegged as a communist either, he'll be crossing over and joining us hand-wringers next you know......

I'll echo what has been said on here already, the tour is excellent. If the people organising it make something from it then good luck to them they deserve it. I'm no economist but I doubt they'll be retiring on it though. No one pushed any merchandise at us on Sunday, in fact apart from some raffle tickets the only mention of money made that I recall was when discussing the possibility of improving the graves at Craigton, and that was in the context of the club getting involved.

Whatever reason Willhelm et al have for knocking this tour they are the poorer for not going on it, pun intended.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Psst, don't tell anyone but there's a guy going around Rangers pubs selling small metal Blue Stars , like the one on our jersey from the 1877 SC Final.

Bassa better not make any money from it

[BRICKY1872 118]

Every time I read one of these threads a litle bit of me dies.

[MisterC 12,487]

Psst, don't tell anyone but there's a guy going around Rangers pubs selling small metal Blue Stars , like the one on our jersey from the 1877 SC Final.

Bassa better not make any money from it

It would be an outrage if he was! The worst ones are those who won Rangers pubs and profit from fellow bears and their fondness for a substance which is damamging to peoples health.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Every time I read one of these threads a litle bit of me dies.

It's sad.

These threads should be celebrations of our great history, and they should be supporting the dedicated group of bears who have made it all possible.

[papaguy51 912]

Personally, I usually stay out of such quibbles. This is the first time I've entered this thread in all honesty.

I am generally unaware of all these website tiffs that seem to go on. As far as I can see, a group of people are giving up their time to allow other fans to see our Founders Trail and if they make a bit of cash out of it, so be it.

No-one is getting ripped off, no-one is profiteering to a massive level and it appears that the days out are good value for the buck. Christ, this is becoming one of my major gripes. The politics between Rangers fans is astonishing at times, I fail to understand it.

As Manti said, this thread should be a celebration of our history and those that make that history accessible to other Bears.

[McBoyd 355]

The politics between Rangers fans is astonishing at times, I fail to understand it.

You and me both mate, it's amazing really.

[MisterC 12,487]

Also nobody is being forced to go on this nor are they forced to buy whatever merchandise may be on sale. Its a sad day when politics gets in the way of our story being told.

[papaguy51 912]

I think we get on pretty well with the VB lads, I'm a member of the site myself, but I'm just not sure if this thread was the best arena in which to bring up these issues.

[BRICKY1872 118]

Every time I read one of these threads a litle bit of me dies.

It's sad.

These threads should be celebrations of our great history, and they should be supporting the dedicated group of bears who have made it all possible.

This has got to be symptomatic of the modern trend for internet forums. I'm old enough to remember a time when we didn't even have fanzines and I can never remember petty bitchiness or back biting like this between fellow Bears. Or was I walking around with my head in the clouds for all those years???

[*Manticore* 1,893]

This has got to be symptomatic of the modern trend for internet forums. I'm old enough to remember a time when we didn't even have fanzines and I can never remember petty bitchiness or back biting like this between fellow Bears. Or was I walking around with my head in the clouds for all those years???

Differences of opinion tended to get dropped or sorted out sharpish back in those days.

[Balgairbear 0]

I think we get on pretty well with the VB lads, I'm a member of the site myself, but I'm just not sure if this thread was the best arena in which to bring up these issues.

It certainly wasn't the OP that brought up the Issues which i think you refer too,Why don't the admin step in and stop the Negative points that seem to FOLLOW this subject about ?

[BRICKY1872 118]

This has got to be symptomatic of the modern trend for internet forums. I'm old enough to remember a time when we didn't even have fanzines and I can never remember petty bitchiness or back biting like this between fellow Bears. Or was I walking around with my head in the clouds for all those years???

Differences of opinion tended to get dropped or sorted out sharpish back in those days.

Generally over a pint or if it was on the terraces usually by one of the ever constant voices of reason who would point out that we were all Bears and should never forget that.

[Adoniram 1,919]

I think we get on pretty well with the VB lads, I'm a member of the site myself, but I'm just not sure if this thread was the best arena in which to bring up these issues.

It certainly wasn't the OP that brought up the Issues which i think you refer too,Why don't the admin step in and stop the Negative points that seem to FOLLOW this subject about ?

And censorship would be just as damaging as asking questions.

Here's a hypothetical question then....

Is there anything stopping the guys from the Founders Trail meeting up with the guys who got the McBeath project up and running. Having a beer or two and discussing any issues that are being spoken about on here?

I know i wouldn't refuse a beer with a fellow bear regardless of what has happened in the past. I am sure Willhelm would be the same although i cannot speak for him personally.

So is there anything stopping us?

[Balgairbear 0]

I think we get on pretty well with the VB lads, I'm a member of the site myself, but I'm just not sure if this thread was the best arena in which to bring up these issues.

It certainly wasn't the OP that brought up the Issues which i think you refer too,Why don't the admin step in and stop the Negative points that seem to FOLLOW this subject about ?

And censorship would be just as damaging as asking questions.

Here's a hypothetical question then....

Is there anything stopping the guys from the Founders Trail meeting up with the guys who got the McBeath project up and running. Having a beer or two and discussing any issues that are being spoken about on here?

I know i wouldn't refuse a beer with a fellow bear regardless of what has happened in the past. I am sure Willhelm would be the same although i cannot speak for him personally.

So is there anything stopping us?

But you just can't come into a thread and start calling the people involved a Liar, can you ?

I certainly can't and won't answer on behalf of the Founders commitee, Personally i don't see a problem with it, but i have not had the abuse/ accusations (sp) spouted to me unlike the OP !

[*Manticore* 1,893]

I think we get on pretty well with the VB lads, I'm a member of the site myself, but I'm just not sure if this thread was the best arena in which to bring up these issues.

It certainly wasn't the OP that brought up the Issues which i think you refer too,Why don't the admin step in and stop the Negative points that seem to FOLLOW this subject about ?

For some reason they seem to be reluctant to intervene early, last time they just let it run and eventually had to lock the thread.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

But you just can't come into a thread and start calling the people involved a Liar, can you ?

Well that sort of thing is hardly likely to be followed by a friendly pint.

[Coisty355 1]

And censorship would be just as damaging as asking questions.

Here's a hypothetical question then....

Is there anything stopping the guys from the Founders Trail meeting up with the guys who got the McBeath project up and running. Having a beer or two and discussing any issues that are being spoken about on here?

I know i wouldn't refuse a beer with a fellow bear regardless of what has happened in the past. I am sure Willhelm would be the same although i cannot speak for him personally.

So is there anything stopping us?

But the questions you refer to have been asked repeatedly every time a thread about the Trail is posted. And these questions have been answered repeatedly yet some people don't seem satisfied with the answers.