The Founders Trail and Ibrox Stadium Tour 2010. Autumn Dates.

[Adoniram 1,919]

And censorship would be just as damaging as asking questions.

Here's a hypothetical question then....

Is there anything stopping the guys from the Founders Trail meeting up with the guys who got the McBeath project up and running. Having a beer or two and discussing any issues that are being spoken about on here?

I know i wouldn't refuse a beer with a fellow bear regardless of what has happened in the past. I am sure Willhelm would be the same although i cannot speak for him personally.

So is there anything stopping us?

But the questions you refer to have been asked repeatedly every time a thread about the Trail is posted. And these questions have been answered repeatedly yet some people don't seem satisfied with the answers.

That still doesn't answer my question

[Coisty355 1]

And censorship would be just as damaging as asking questions.

Here's a hypothetical question then....

Is there anything stopping the guys from the Founders Trail meeting up with the guys who got the McBeath project up and running. Having a beer or two and discussing any issues that are being spoken about on here?

I know i wouldn't refuse a beer with a fellow bear regardless of what has happened in the past. I am sure Willhelm would be the same although i cannot speak for him personally.

So is there anything stopping us?

But the questions you refer to have been asked repeatedly every time a thread about the Trail is posted. And these questions have been answered repeatedly yet some people don't seem satisfied with the answers.

That still doesn't answer my question

You edited your post as I was replying.

It's not my place to answer your hypothetical question as I'm not involved in the Trail.

[Poetry_In_Blue 1,043]

Here's a simple solution, quit bickering, if you don't believe in the tour or those that are organising it for whatever reasons don't go on the tour.

If you want to query any possible profits etc then contact The Founders Trail organisers directly and don't bring your squabble on this site.

To Moonlighter, from a personal point of view, the tour looks brilliant, and hopefully there will be one running the next time I'm in Glasgow which I'll hopefully get on.

[TheMoonlighter 499]

And censorship would be just as damaging as asking questions.

Here's a hypothetical question then....

Is there anything stopping the guys from the Founders Trail meeting up with the guys who got the McBeath project up and running. Having a beer or two and discussing any issues that are being spoken about on here?

I know i wouldn't refuse a beer with a fellow bear regardless of what has happened in the past. I am sure Willhelm would be the same although i cannot speak for him personally.

So is there anything stopping us?

But the questions you refer to have been asked repeatedly every time a thread about the Trail is posted. And these questions have been answered repeatedly yet some people don't seem satisfied with the answers.

That still doesn't answer my question

I'll answer it, in a word .

No.

I won't be taking the Founders Project into an arena that involves bitching between two websites.

I'm not taking the four kids who fought to establish our Club there, it's a simple as that.

I've tried my best to keep the project out of it, but as soon as it appears on here i'm accused of being a crook who's out to make a profit out of Rangers supporters.

This crook is then asked why i don't advertise on their site ?

Better than that i've now to sit and have a pint.

No, i'll continue to put the Founders first and watch from the side-lines while individulas rap themselves up in their own squabbles.

[TheMoonlighter 499]

Here's a simple solution, quit bickering, if you don't believe in the tour or those that are organising it for whatever reasons don't go on the tour.

If you want to query any possible profits etc then contact The Founders Trail organisers directly and don't bring your squabble on this site.

To Moonlighter, from a personal point of view, the tour looks brilliant, and hopefully there will be one running the next time I'm in Glasgow which I'll hopefully get on.

Thank you for that.

I will be back on here to advertise the celebration of our Founders. Their efforts come first.

I do hope that perhaps Admin can in future restrict the groundless accusations that have been banded about on here today.

It does no-one any favours.

[theweebluenose 4,335]

Here's a simple solution, quit bickering, if you don't believe in the tour or those that are organising it for whatever reasons don't go on the tour.

If you want to query any possible profits etc then contact The Founders Trail organisers directly and don't bring your squabble on this site.

To Moonlighter, from a personal point of view, the tour looks brilliant, and hopefully there will be one running the next time I'm in Glasgow which I'll hopefully get on.

Thank you for that.

I will be back on here to advertise the celebration of our Founders. Their efforst come first.

I do hope that perhaps Admin can in future restrict the groundless accusations that have been banded about on here today.

It does no-one any favours.

Why demmand censorship? One of the reasons RM is so popular and respected as a Rangers Forum is that it allows supporters to discuss and questions matters with little restrictions. Obviously certain behaviour is monitored but it would ruin the way the forum flows.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Why demmand censorship? One of the reasons RM is so popular and respected as a Rangers Forum is that it allows supporters to discuss and questions matters with little restrictions. Obviously certain behaviour is monitored but it would ruin the way the forum flows.

The constant attacks on this project ruin the way RM flows.

And it would hardly be censorship to stop people posting irrelevancies on a thread, I think it happens quite often

[Poetry_In_Blue 1,043]

Why demmand censorship? One of the reasons RM is so popular and respected as a Rangers Forum is that it allows supporters to discuss and questions matters with little restrictions. Obviously certain behaviour is monitored but it would ruin the way the forum flows.

The constant attacks on this project ruin the way RM flows.

And it would hardly be censorship to stop people posting irrelevancies on a thread, I think it happens quite often

This

As I said if they have any queries about the project or concerns, then contact the organisers directly and not ruin a thread with unnecessary bickering.

[Adoniram 1,919]

And censorship would be just as damaging as asking questions.

Here's a hypothetical question then....

Is there anything stopping the guys from the Founders Trail meeting up with the guys who got the McBeath project up and running. Having a beer or two and discussing any issues that are being spoken about on here?

I know i wouldn't refuse a beer with a fellow bear regardless of what has happened in the past. I am sure Willhelm would be the same although i cannot speak for him personally.

So is there anything stopping us?

But the questions you refer to have been asked repeatedly every time a thread about the Trail is posted. And these questions have been answered repeatedly yet some people don't seem satisfied with the answers.

That still doesn't answer my question

I'll answer it, in a word .

No.

I won't be taking the Founders Project into an arena that involves bitching between two websites.

I'm not taking the four kids who fought to establish our Club there, it's a simple as that.

I've tried my best to keep the project out of it, but as soon as it appears on here i'm accused of being a crook who's out to make a profit out of Rangers supporters.

This crook is then asked why i don't advertise on their site ?

Better than that i've now to sit and have a pint.

No, i'll continue to put the Founders first and watch from the side-lines while individulas rap themselves up in their own squabbles.

Thought you would say that....so much for Rangers First.

Excuse After Excuse After Excuse.....

[Balgairbear 0]

And censorship would be just as damaging as asking questions.

Here's a hypothetical question then....

Is there anything stopping the guys from the Founders Trail meeting up with the guys who got the McBeath project up and running. Having a beer or two and discussing any issues that are being spoken about on here?

I know i wouldn't refuse a beer with a fellow bear regardless of what has happened in the past. I am sure Willhelm would be the same although i cannot speak for him personally.

So is there anything stopping us?

But the questions you refer to have been asked repeatedly every time a thread about the Trail is posted. And these questions have been answered repeatedly yet some people don't seem satisfied with the answers.

That still doesn't answer my question

I'll answer it, in a word .

No.

I won't be taking the Founders Project into an arena that involves bitching between two websites.

I'm not taking the four kids who fought to establish our Club there, it's a simple as that.

I've tried my best to keep the project out of it, but as soon as it appears on here i'm accused of being a crook who's out to make a profit out of Rangers supporters.

This crook is then asked why i don't advertise on their site ?

Better than that i've now to sit and have a pint.

No, i'll continue to put the Founders first and watch from the side-lines while individulas rap themselves up in their own squabbles.

Thought you would say that....so much for Rangers First.

Excuse After Excuse After Excuse.....

Are you an EX FF poster ?

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Well that'll build bridges.

[caseyjones 3,009]

Well that'll build bridges.

Neither party wants that to happen, it would seem.

[AMMS 27]

Well that'll build bridges.

[Adoniram 1,919]

Well that'll build bridges.

Neither party wants that to happen, it would seem.

On the contrary.We have made numerous attempts at working together but they have all been rejected even when the only winners were Rangers and the fans.

[thebooler 4,509]

Ah.

So it IS all about the inter-webstie squabble.

Thought as much.

Moving on.

We've sold out the Founders Trail for July 18th but may be announcing an extra date in July this week.

I'll post details when i have more information.

Thanks for all the interest shown.

No, it's about people like you who deny there's any money being made, when you actually do make cash from it. Now I'll ask you again... Did you make any cash from the Ralston book when selling it outside Ibrox or not?

If he never, he's an idiot.

Do you make money from bus ticket sales?

If he doesn't, again, he's an idiot.

Do you make cash from T shirt sales?

Once again, if he doesn't, he's an idiot.

Did you permit the selling of memorabilia on Ebay?

All sorts of Rangers memorabilia is available on Ebay, and hundreds of other websites worldwide.

All very straight forward questions and I'm sure you'll have no problem answering. Unlike the request to post your tours on Vanguardbears, which for some reason you ignored or missed by accident.

Individuals have the right to decide where and when to promote their goods.

*Reminder to self*

1. Never buy another season ticket.

2. Never buy another programme.

3. Never buy another T Shirt.

4. Never buy another Pie & Bovril.

5. Never go buy RSC bus to away games.

6. Never buy another Fanzine.

7. Never buy another scarf.

8. Never buy another away European Trip from Thomas Cook.

All of the above means profit for someone - if I don't like it, I don't buy it.

Simples.

Keep up the good work with the Founders Trail - I WILL be making this trip soon.

[thebooler 4,509]

The people selling scarves and flags, as well as books etc, don't make any bones they are making profits from the business venture of their choice. I dare say the lads involved in the trail also do a great job and some fans love what they do. I've no problem with anyone making cash, but at least come out and say this is a business venture where profits are made from tours and T shirts.

Unfortunately, the T shirt vendor from a certain website is hawking the Founders Trail memorabilia on Ebay as we speak, which is sad, but very predictable.

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...=item563d702043

£2.99, you kidding?

I could understand your trepidation at them making profit if they were raking in an absolute ton, but they aren't. From what I've seen it's been self funded research by these guys for years, which isn't cheap itself, I've spent plenty of my spare time also researching the history of the club, and travel costs, printing costs, etc all add up. Research needs funding, thats a given. People I know that have done PHD's in History and Archaeology needed funding from somewhere, some even need to get funding to do the PHD in the first place.

Can I suggest you stop being so naive and learn to look at the bigger picture when not studying for your degree If you honestly believe they are making this amount, then feckin god help this country if you are the future. No one asked these people to start a trail, they did this of their own accord.

Now I'm all for learning and teaching about our history, but let me assure you of something. When profiteers get their greedy mitts on these things, you can be assured the cash is being put in pocketsof individuals. Of course they deny all knowledge of it, simply because they don't want you to know.

Invitation still open Le Bluebear / Moonlighter to post your tours on VB. Or are you still being controlled from profiteering HQ?

Jeezo!

I've seen it all now!

Who on Earth gave these guys the right to start a "Trail" without being asked?

*Another reminder to self*

Never fly Virgin Atlantic as Richard Branson started this airline without being asked.

Un-fuckin-believable.

[Carsons Army 4,146]

And censorship would be just as damaging as asking questions.

Here's a hypothetical question then....

Is there anything stopping the guys from the Founders Trail meeting up with the guys who got the McBeath project up and running. Having a beer or two and discussing any issues that are being spoken about on here?

I know i wouldn't refuse a beer with a fellow bear regardless of what has happened in the past. I am sure Willhelm would be the same although i cannot speak for him personally.

So is there anything stopping us?

But the questions you refer to have been asked repeatedly every time a thread about the Trail is posted. And these questions have been answered repeatedly yet some people don't seem satisfied with the answers.

That still doesn't answer my question

I'll answer it, in a word .

No.

I won't be taking the Founders Project into an arena that involves bitching between two websites.

I'm not taking the four kids who fought to establish our Club there, it's a simple as that.

I've tried my best to keep the project out of it, but as soon as it appears on here i'm accused of being a crook who's out to make a profit out of Rangers supporters.

This crook is then asked why i don't advertise on their site ?

Better than that i've now to sit and have a pint.

No, i'll continue to put the Founders first and watch from the side-lines while individulas rap themselves up in their own squabbles.

That has to be the most patronising post I have ever seen in my life,

If you want to "put the founders first" as you continually trot out, then post it on all Rangers sites, Not the ones Mark Dingwall allows to to post it on.

I don't really care if you make a profit, If you've put the leg work in then your entitled to it.

But don't spout the patronising stuff about "put the founders first" and "Putting Rangers first" when you are intentionally snubbing a section of the Rangers support who chose to use Vanguardbears.

This division and bitching between two websites, that you speak of, eminates from One person.

[thebooler 4,509]

And censorship would be just as damaging as asking questions.

Here's a hypothetical question then....

Is there anything stopping the guys from the Founders Trail meeting up with the guys who got the McBeath project up and running. Having a beer or two and discussing any issues that are being spoken about on here?

I know i wouldn't refuse a beer with a fellow bear regardless of what has happened in the past. I am sure Willhelm would be the same although i cannot speak for him personally.

So is there anything stopping us?

But the questions you refer to have been asked repeatedly every time a thread about the Trail is posted. And these questions have been answered repeatedly yet some people don't seem satisfied with the answers.

That still doesn't answer my question

I'll answer it, in a word .

No.

I won't be taking the Founders Project into an arena that involves bitching between two websites.

I'm not taking the four kids who fought to establish our Club there, it's a simple as that.

I've tried my best to keep the project out of it, but as soon as it appears on here i'm accused of being a crook who's out to make a profit out of Rangers supporters.

This crook is then asked why i don't advertise on their site ?

Better than that i've now to sit and have a pint.

No, i'll continue to put the Founders first and watch from the side-lines while individulas rap themselves up in their own squabbles.

That has to be the most patronising post I have ever seen in my life,

If you want to "put the founders first" as you continually trot out, then post it on all Rangers sites, Not the ones Mark Dingwall allows to to post it on.

I don't really care if you make a profit, If you've put the leg work in then your entitled to it.

But don't spout the patronising stuff about "put the founders first" and "Putting Rangers first" when you are intentionally snubbing a section of the Rangers support who chose to use Vanguardbears.

This division and bitching between two websites, that you speak of, eminates from One person.

I don't even know who this "one person" is, but I'm guessing he has the right to advertise his goods wherever he decides to do so.

He will also have reasons for "avoiding" certain avenues of advertising which is, once again, his right.

I know nothing of any of the people involved in this debacle on a personal level, but it's obvious the Founders Trail has required substantial research, and a shit load of work has gone into it. It's obviously very popular and successful, and if the guys who are responsible for all this hard work make a small profit, good luck to them. They deserve it.

As has been said before, petty squabbles on here only bring negativity to the project.

It's pretty obvious a handful of people are only posting on these threads in an effort to undermine the Trail organisers.

Unfortunately, it looks like the only people they are undermining are themselves.

[MisterC 12,487]

So the arguing is still going on in this thread? Jesus wept

[thebooler 4,509]

So the arguing is still going on in this thread? Jesus wept

MisterC - I'm certainly not arguing mate (nobody's replied to any of my posts ) and I'm as saddened as many others that this project should attract so much ill feeling from a handful of individuals. For this reason I felt compelled to post and try to defend the guys responsible for the project.

I also would like to see Admin moving swiftly in future to eliminate these negative posts every time anybody makes an attempt to promote or praise the Founders Trail.

[Carsons Army 4,146]

And censorship would be just as damaging as asking questions.

Here's a hypothetical question then....

Is there anything stopping the guys from the Founders Trail meeting up with the guys who got the McBeath project up and running. Having a beer or two and discussing any issues that are being spoken about on here?

I know i wouldn't refuse a beer with a fellow bear regardless of what has happened in the past. I am sure Willhelm would be the same although i cannot speak for him personally.

So is there anything stopping us?

But the questions you refer to have been asked repeatedly every time a thread about the Trail is posted. And these questions have been answered repeatedly yet some people don't seem satisfied with the answers.

That still doesn't answer my question

I'll answer it, in a word .

No.

I won't be taking the Founders Project into an arena that involves bitching between two websites.

I'm not taking the four kids who fought to establish our Club there, it's a simple as that.

I've tried my best to keep the project out of it, but as soon as it appears on here i'm accused of being a crook who's out to make a profit out of Rangers supporters.

This crook is then asked why i don't advertise on their site ?

Better than that i've now to sit and have a pint.

No, i'll continue to put the Founders first and watch from the side-lines while individulas rap themselves up in their own squabbles.

That has to be the most patronising post I have ever seen in my life,

If you want to "put the founders first" as you continually trot out, then post it on all Rangers sites, Not the ones Mark Dingwall allows to to post it on.

I don't really care if you make a profit, If you've put the leg work in then your entitled to it.

But don't spout the patronising stuff about "put the founders first" and "Putting Rangers first" when you are intentionally snubbing a section of the Rangers support who chose to use Vanguardbears.

This division and bitching between two websites, that you speak of, eminates from One person.

I don't even know who this "one person" is, but I'm guessing he has the right to advertise his goods wherever he decides to do so.

He will also have reasons for "avoiding" certain avenues of advertising which is, once again, his right.

I know nothing of any of the people involved in this debacle on a personal level, but it's obvious the Founders Trail has required substantial research, and a shit load of work has gone into it. It's obviously very popular and successful, and if the guys who are responsible for all this hard work make a small profit, good luck to them. They deserve it.

As has been said before, petty squabbles on here only bring negativity to the project.

It's pretty obvious a handful of people are only posting on these threads in an effort to undermine the Trail organisers.

Unfortunately, it looks like the only people they are undermining are themselves.

If you read my post I clearly state that I have no problem with anyone making a profit, If he puts the time and the work in, then he is entitled to some return.

What I do have issues with is the patronising pish about putting the Founders and Rangers first, when he is clearly not. because he is using personal reasons and issues he has for not posting it on Vanguardbears, Is this putting Founders and Rangers first ?

As for The squabbling and bitching between sites, Ask Le Bluebear / Moonlighter why you can't even type the word Vanguardbears on FF.

How petty is that ?

I have been banned from Follow Follow, I was banned because I mentioned Vanguardbears.

I recieved a message when I logged on, stating Banned ! when will ban be lifted: NEVER. Reason: none

I can freely post links to FF on Vanguardbears, If you try the same on FF, you will recieve a lifetime ban.

So how ironic is it that Moonlighter is talking about bitching and squabbling

[kplfishtank 4,679]

So the arguing is still going on in this thread? Jesus wept

MisterC - I'm certainly not arguing mate (nobody's replied to any of my posts ) and I'm as saddened as many others that this project should attract so much ill feeling from a handful of individuals. For this reason I felt compelled to post and try to defend the guys responsible for the project.

I also would like to see Admin moving swiftly in future to eliminate these negative posts every time anybody makes an attempt to promote or praise the Founders Trail.

tbf its not really RM policy to eliminate posts that folk dont like

i think the idea of this trail is great but at the same time although i am paying to go on it i would be less happy if Mr Dingwall was involved after all he deemed me not good enough for his website(must be cause im a bear)

these are the questions some guys want answered

[Carsons Army 4,146]

So the arguing is still going on in this thread? Jesus wept

MisterC - I'm certainly not arguing mate (nobody's replied to any of my posts ) and I'm as saddened as many others that this project should attract so much ill feeling from a handful of individuals. For this reason I felt compelled to post and try to defend the guys responsible for the project.

I also would like to see Admin moving swiftly in future to eliminate these negative posts every time anybody makes an attempt to promote or praise the Founders Trail.

Where exactly is the ill feeling towards the project, these handful of people you speak of, have actually commended and praised the Founders Trail on this thread and on other threads

[Coisty355 1]

tbf its not really RM policy to eliminate posts that folk dont like

i think the idea of this trail is great but at the same time although i am paying to go on it i would be less happy if Mr Dingwall was involved after all he deemed me not good enough for his website(must be cause im a bear)

these are the questions some guys want answered

That question has been answered.

[thebooler 4,509]

If you read my post I clearly state that I have no problem with anyone making a profit, If he puts the time and the work in, then he is entitled to some return.

What I do have issues with is the patronising pish about putting the Founders and Rangers first, when he is clearly not. because he is using personal reasons and issues he has for not posting it on Vanguardbears, Is this putting Founders and Rangers first ?

As for The squabbling and bitching between sites, Ask Le Bluebear / Moonlighter why you can't even type the word Vanguardbears on FF.

How petty is that ?

I have been banned from Follow Follow, I was banned because I mentioned Vanguardbears.

I recieved a message when I logged on, stating Banned ! when will ban be lifted: NEVER. Reason: none

I can freely post links to FF on Vanguardbears, If you try the same on FF, you will recieve a lifetime ban.

So how ironic is it that Moonlighter is talking about bitching and squabbling

And what does any of this have to do with RM?

Why bring the issues on here?