Crime of the century ?

[RM Monitor And Standards Officer 112,814]

indeed we had a great view of it bt the guardia in our end wer shitin it as there was 4 a them and a thousand or 7o of us

[minstral 5,375]

Dart you are spot on about not starting out the Protestant club, but we ended up known all over the world as the Protestant club. Also in my opinion our founders were Protestant when you think that they decided that football would not be played on a sunday. I also dont think that we would have ended up so big a club without our Protestant culture, thats also only my opinion. Having followed our club from the late 50s we had a massive Protestant support back then, and if you could move that support into todays world our enemies would not get away with their attacks.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Why don't you ask the boys and girls from Ulster what their every day life is like?

Well I suppose you could.

On the other hand it might be preferable to dismiss the notion that anything sung at a football match has much to do with every day life anywhere....

[.Williamson. 87,187]

Answer my first question.

What songs to we sing that YOU find so offensive?

That we sing? The paramilitary songs that still get sung and which have no relevance to everyday life in Ulster anymore never mind at a Scottish football ground. Also the empty-headed, moronic, divisive 'FTP' chants which have died down of late but are slowly creeping back in. Criticism of the Catholic Church is fine but not when it's couched in a frankly bigoted chant.

As for The Billy Boys I dont find it offensive as such, I just have no desire to sing about being up to my knees in 'F*nian blood'. People can sing it if they want I'd just rather they didn't.

Anyway, time for bed and to rest the brain cells. I'm sure this will still be going tomorrow.

Why don't you ask the boys and girls from Ulster what their every day life is like?

Posters on VB keep us informed on a daily basis of what is happening in their various communities.

Republicans constantly bombarding their homes with whatever comes to hand and the PSNI doing nothing about it, whenever there is an orange march they are pelted by the scum and yet the PSNI do nothing about it, they blockade roads and the Protestant community are wary of what areas to walk in because they know what will happen if they do.

You live on cloud cuckoo land if you think that Ulster is all fluffy clouds and lovely beds of roses.

You are making assumptions and getting it wrong.

Most of that is news to me.

[Adoniram 1,919]

I would love to get my hands on the post from way back that stated

"We were told to sign a Catholic and the hatred would stop...we did and it continued"

"Ok they said...sign a Scottish Catholic..and we did but it still continued"

You get the gist.

Yes there are certain chants and songs that i agree don't belong in a football ground and among the Rangers support.

I would say that by and large the vast majority are simply not sung anymore home or away.

The FTP chant i haven't heard and the only other songs they would have a problem with are Super Rangers and TBB because of the word F*nian.

No matter how hard the authorities and the clubs try and portray football grounds as happy,disnified places to take the family the bottom line is they are still and always will cauldrons of seething hate.Gladitorial arenas where both sets of fans spout hatred and venom to each other for 90 minutes.

Singing bad songs is the least of societies worries but it is a clear anti Rangers agenda and that is the wider picture here that is deliberately overlooked by handwringers and apologists.

Until there is parity of reporting and condemnation then to hell with what others think or write.

[Edin-Bear-ugh 1]

However, can we honestly say that without looking at anyone else we are a perfect club?

Could you give me an example of one of those?

And you seem to be implying that only perfection can be entitled to a defence?

No, as I am not saying any club is perfect, I am more referring to our complaints against other's. Eg, 'People in Glass Houses'

We all know the others have problems, some larger than our's, but we should get really sort our own issues and forget about the rest.

If Timothy wants to moan, go the Embassy or phone the Pope, let her. At least we can look at ourselves in the mirror.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

It's patently obvious that there are people within our club, in the boardroom and in the stands, who want to see an end to any connection Rangers has to Protestantism, the OO, Loyalism, Ulster etc. and are quite happy to allow our enemies to do their work for them.

Correct - and I am proud to be one of them - we are first and foremost a FOOTBALL club. Our GREAT traditions are founded in our sportsmanship, integrity, and will to win.

Take the religion out and we are still the greatest football team (IMHO). If there was no football but only the religion Ibrox would be deserted.

[Adoniram 1,919]

It's patently obvious that there are people within our club, in the boardroom and in the stands, who want to see an end to any connection Rangers has to Protestantism, the OO, Loyalism, Ulster etc. and are quite happy to allow our enemies to do their work for them.

Correct - and I am proud to be one of them - we are first and foremost a FOOTBALL club. Our GREAT traditions are founded in our sportsmanship, integrity, and will to win.

Take the religion out and we are still the greatest football team (IMHO). If there was no football but only the religion Ibrox would be deserted.

And all of these were instilled from great Protestant ideals and great Protestant servants....oh the shame eh?

[mmrfc1873 48]

I would love to get my hands on the post from way back that stated

"We were told to sign a Catholic and the hatred would stop...we did and it continued"

"Ok they said...sign a Scottish Catholic..and we did but it still continued"

You get the gist.

Yes there are certain chants and songs that i agree don't belong in a football ground and among the Rangers support.

I would say that by and large the vast majority are simply not sung anymore home or away.

The FTP chant i haven't heard and the only other songs they would have a problem with are Super Rangers and TBB because of the word F*nian.

No matter how hard the authorities and the clubs try and portray football grounds as happy,disnified places to take the family the bottom line is they are still and always will cauldrons of seething hate.Gladitorial arenas where both sets of fans spout hatred and venom to each other for 90 minutes.

Singing bad songs is the least of societies worries but it is a clear anti Rangers agenda and that is the wider picture here that is deliberately overlooked by handwringers and apologists.

Until there is parity of reporting and condemnation then to hell with what others think or write.

By far the most sensible post ive seen in this thread

EDIT - Although I have to disagree with the "handwringer and apologists" comment, everybody associated with Rangers whether a fan or actually involved in the back room staff knows that we get the raw end of the deal when it comes to the media.

[caseyjones 3,009]

It's patently obvious that there are people within our club, in the boardroom and in the stands, who want to see an end to any connection Rangers has to Protestantism, the OO, Loyalism, Ulster etc. and are quite happy to allow our enemies to do their work for them.

Correct - and I am proud to be one of them - we are first and foremost a FOOTBALL club. Our GREAT traditions are founded in our sportsmanship, integrity, and will to win.

Take the religion out and we are still the greatest football team (IMHO). If there was no football but only the religion Ibrox would be deserted.

You can't just 'take the religion out'.

Whether you like it or not, it is a part of our history and it has had an influence on us being such a unique and successful club. Long may it continue.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Dart you are spot on about not starting out the Protestant club, but we ended up known all over the world as the Protestant club. Also in my opinion our founders were Protestant when you think that they decided that football would not be played on a sunday. I also dont think that we would have ended up so big a club without our Protestant culture, thats also only my opinion. Having followed our club from the late 50s we had a massive Protestant support back then, and if you could move that support into todays world our enemies would not get away with their attacks.

M I think you are qouting the wrong original poster - wasnt me who said that

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

It's patently obvious that there are people within our club, in the boardroom and in the stands, who want to see an end to any connection Rangers has to Protestantism, the OO, Loyalism, Ulster etc. and are quite happy to allow our enemies to do their work for them.

Correct - and I am proud to be one of them - we are first and foremost a FOOTBALL club. Our GREAT traditions are founded in our sportsmanship, integrity, and will to win.

Take the religion out and we are still the greatest football team (IMHO). If there was no football but only the religion Ibrox would be deserted.

No I beg to differ.

You should not be proud...you should be absolutely ashamed of yourself.

And it has nothing to do whatsoever with the fact that you wish to see and end to Rangers connection with Protestantism/Ulster etc etc. Each to their own.

What you have done in this thread is almost justified a case, or tendered a plea in mitigation, for those reptiles who peddle lies about our club. Those who would dismiss the GREAT traditions you yourself highlight - sportmanship, integrity and will to win. I havent heard any journo speak of those great traditions of our club for many a year...not since the likes of Hugh Taylor or Bob Cramspey. God rest their souls.

What you have most certainly done is exonerated our current guardians from any sense of responsibility in defending such great traditions simply because a few idiots occasionally break into a banned song.

It would appear to me you are almost opposing the saying "two wrongs make a right".

Tell me something Bluepeter9 .....when did you last hear the likes of Spiers/Anna Smith/Mcnee or Keevins even mention the huge steps this club has taken in the last few years to tackle religious bigotry. Or mention the many awards we have won or commendations from UEFA ?

Like me save you the research - never.

As Spiers condemned every man woman and child within Ibrox labelling them "Bigotted troglodytes" guys like you are giving them all the justification they need by suggesting until we are perfect we cannot defend ourselves.

Absolute nonsense.

Im not asking Murray to defend bigotted chants or singing or justifiable criticism thereof - Im asking him to defend this club from the blatant lies that have been told by elements of the media.

[Allanger 625]

Me Dinosaur

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

double post

[ianwrsc 23]

Excellant Article

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

triple post...oh my

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

Answer my first question.

What songs to we sing that YOU find so offensive?

That we sing? The paramilitary songs that still get sung and which have no relevance to everyday life in Ulster anymore never mind at a Scottish football ground. Also the empty-headed, moronic, divisive 'FTP' chants which have died down of late but are slowly creeping back in. Criticism of the Catholic Church is fine but not when it's couched in a frankly bigoted chant.

As for The Billy Boys I dont find it offensive as such, I just have no desire to sing about being up to my knees in 'F*nian blood'. People can sing it if they want I'd just rather they didn't.

Anyway, time for bed and to rest the brain cells. I'm sure this will still be going tomorrow.

Why don't you ask the boys and girls from Ulster what their every day life is like?

Posters on VB keep us informed on a daily basis of what is happening in their various communities.

Republicans constantly bombarding their homes with whatever comes to hand and the PSNI doing nothing about it, whenever there is an orange march they are pelted by the scum and yet the PSNI do nothing about it, they blockade roads and the Protestant community are wary of what areas to walk in because they know what will happen if they do.

You live on cloud cuckoo land if you think that Ulster is all fluffy clouds and lovely beds of roses.

You are making assumptions and getting it wrong.

Explain to me what helping everyday life in Ulster has to do with the U.V.F/Y.C.V anymore? Nothing, that's what. They run their communities like police states and are nothing but glorified criminal gangs who wear the clothes of Loyalism when it suits them.

More importantly it has nothing to do with a Scottish football club.

[BoltonLoyal 2]

Answer my first question.

What songs to we sing that YOU find so offensive?

That we sing? The paramilitary songs that still get sung and which have no relevance to everyday life in Ulster anymore never mind at a Scottish football ground. Also the empty-headed, moronic, divisive 'FTP' chants which have died down of late but are slowly creeping back in. Criticism of the Catholic Church is fine but not when it's couched in a frankly bigoted chant.

As for The Billy Boys I dont find it offensive as such, I just have no desire to sing about being up to my knees in 'F*nian blood'. People can sing it if they want I'd just rather they didn't.

Anyway, time for bed and to rest the brain cells. I'm sure this will still be going tomorrow.

Why don't you ask the boys and girls from Ulster what their every day life is like?

Posters on VB keep us informed on a daily basis of what is happening in their various communities.

Republicans constantly bombarding their homes with whatever comes to hand and the PSNI doing nothing about it, whenever there is an orange march they are pelted by the scum and yet the PSNI do nothing about it, they blockade roads and the Protestant community are wary of what areas to walk in because they know what will happen if they do.

You live on cloud cuckoo land if you think that Ulster is all fluffy clouds and lovely beds of roses.

You are making assumptions and getting it wrong.

And the relevance to Ranges FC, Edminston Drive, Glasgow, Scotland is?

NOTHING!

I have no idea, mainly because i haven't a clue who Ranges FC are neither do i know where Edminston drive is.

I blame the schools.

[martin93 136]

Answer my first question.

What songs to we sing that YOU find so offensive?

That we sing? The paramilitary songs that still get sung and which have no relevance to everyday life in Ulster anymore never mind at a Scottish football ground. Also the empty-headed, moronic, divisive 'FTP' chants which have died down of late but are slowly creeping back in. Criticism of the Catholic Church is fine but not when it's couched in a frankly bigoted chant.

As for The Billy Boys I dont find it offensive as such, I just have no desire to sing about being up to my knees in 'F*nian blood'. People can sing it if they want I'd just rather they didn't.

Anyway, time for bed and to rest the brain cells. I'm sure this will still be going tomorrow.

Why don't you ask the boys and girls from Ulster what their every day life is like?

Posters on VB keep us informed on a daily basis of what is happening in their various communities.

Republicans constantly bombarding their homes with whatever comes to hand and the PSNI doing nothing about it, whenever there is an orange march they are pelted by the scum and yet the PSNI do nothing about it, they blockade roads and the Protestant community are wary of what areas to walk in because they know what will happen if they do.

You live on cloud cuckoo land if you think that Ulster is all fluffy clouds and lovely beds of roses.

You are making assumptions and getting it wrong.

And the relevance to Ranges FC, Edminston Drive, Glasgow, Scotland is?

NOTHING!

I have no idea, mainly because i haven't a clue who Ranges FC are neither do i know where Edminston drive is.

I blame the schools.

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

Answer my first question.

What songs to we sing that YOU find so offensive?

That we sing? The paramilitary songs that still get sung and which have no relevance to everyday life in Ulster anymore never mind at a Scottish football ground. Also the empty-headed, moronic, divisive 'FTP' chants which have died down of late but are slowly creeping back in. Criticism of the Catholic Church is fine but not when it's couched in a frankly bigoted chant.

As for The Billy Boys I dont find it offensive as such, out being up to my knees in 'F*nian blood'. People can sing I just have no desire to sing abit if they want I'd just rather they didn't.

Anyway, time for bed and to rest the brain cells. I'm sure this will still be going tomorrow.

I doubt I will be on tomorrow, if not I dare say I will bump it on Friday.

Will be interesting to read how you explain 'they' are 'in the minority' and at worst 'political', but we are in your words, 'paramilitary, ftp bigots'.

Well the few thousand Celtic fans who belt out I.R.A song at their away fans would constitute a significant minority of the Celtic support - I actually know a lot of Celtic fans in real life and most of them are embarassed of these fans. I'm not saying their other ditties are political...I said there is a case to be made that they are sectarian but we will never have a proper debate on it until we are out of the spotlight

[martin93 136]

Answer my first question.

What songs to we sing that YOU find so offensive?

That we sing? The paramilitary songs that still get sung and which have no relevance to everyday life in Ulster anymore never mind at a Scottish football ground. Also the empty-headed, moronic, divisive 'FTP' chants which have died down of late but are slowly creeping back in. Criticism of the Catholic Church is fine but not when it's couched in a frankly bigoted chant.

As for The Billy Boys I dont find it offensive as such, out being up to my knees in 'F*nian blood'. People can sing I just have no desire to sing abit if they want I'd just rather they didn't.

Anyway, time for bed and to rest the brain cells. I'm sure this will still be going tomorrow.

I doubt I will be on tomorrow, if not I dare say I will bump it on Friday.

Will be interesting to read how you explain 'they' are 'in the minority' and at worst 'political', but we are in your words, 'paramilitary, ftp bigots'.

Well the few thousand Celtic fans who belt out I.R.A song at their away fans would constitute a significant minority of the Celtic support - I actually know a lot of Celtic fans in real life and most of them are embarassed of these fans. I'm not saying their other ditties are political...I said there is a case to be made that they are sectarian but we will never have a proper debate on it until we are out of the spotlight

So your saying because its only a few thousand at away games its a minority? Well if you are then that is no different to us because you dont get singing at Ibrox and these songs get sung at our away games so it must be a minority for us as well then

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

Answer my first question.

What songs to we sing that YOU find so offensive?

That we sing? The paramilitary songs that still get sung and which have no relevance to everyday life in Ulster anymore never mind at a Scottish football ground. Also the empty-headed, moronic, divisive 'FTP' chants which have died down of late but are slowly creeping back in. Criticism of the Catholic Church is fine but not when it's couched in a frankly bigoted chant.

As for The Billy Boys I dont find it offensive as such, out being up to my knees in 'F*nian blood'. People can sing I just have no desire to sing abit if they want I'd just rather they didn't.

Anyway, time for bed and to rest the brain cells. I'm sure this will still be going tomorrow.

I doubt I will be on tomorrow, if not I dare say I will bump it on Friday.

Will be interesting to read how you explain 'they' are 'in the minority' and at worst 'political', but we are in your words, 'paramilitary, ftp bigots'.

Well the few thousand Celtic fans who belt out I.R.A song at their away fans would constitute a significant minority of the Celtic support - I actually know a lot of Celtic fans in real life and most of them are embarassed of these fans. I'm not saying their other ditties are political...I said there is a case to be made that they are sectarian but we will never have a proper debate on it until we are out of the spotlight

So your saying because its only a few thousand at away games its a minority? Well if you are then that is no different to us because you dont get singing at Ibrox and these songs get sung at our away games so it must be a minority for us as well then

There is singing at Ibrox, dont be ridiculous.

[martin93 136]

Answer my first question.

What songs to we sing that YOU find so offensive?

That we sing? The paramilitary songs that still get sung and which have no relevance to everyday life in Ulster anymore never mind at a Scottish football ground. Also the empty-headed, moronic, divisive 'FTP' chants which have died down of late but are slowly creeping back in. Criticism of the Catholic Church is fine but not when it's couched in a frankly bigoted chant.

As for The Billy Boys I dont find it offensive as such, out being up to my knees in 'F*nian blood'. People can sing I just have no desire to sing abit if they want I'd just rather they didn't.

Anyway, time for bed and to rest the brain cells. I'm sure this will still be going tomorrow.

I doubt I will be on tomorrow, if not I dare say I will bump it on Friday.

Will be interesting to read how you explain 'they' are 'in the minority' and at worst 'political', but we are in your words, 'paramilitary, ftp bigots'.

Well the few thousand Celtic fans who belt out I.R.A song at their away fans would constitute a significant minority of the Celtic support - I actually know a lot of Celtic fans in real life and most of them are embarassed of these fans. I'm not saying their other ditties are political...I said there is a case to be made that they are sectarian but we will never have a proper debate on it until we are out of the spotlight

So your saying because its only a few thousand at away games its a minority? Well if you are then that is no different to us because you dont get singing at Ibrox and these songs get sung at our away games so it must be a minority for us as well then

There is singing at Ibrox, dont be ridiculous.

If there is any sort of singing at Ibrox then it isnt many fans that sing and certainly not more than a few thousands lets be serious,and very rare would you get bigoted songs sung,so are you saying that at parkhead no sectarian songs get sung there? If you are then you are being ridiculous by saying that biogted songs get sung at Ibrox and not at parkhead,

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

Im not asking Murray to defend bigotted chants or singing or justifiable criticism thereof - Im asking him to defend this club from the blatant lies that have been told by elements of the media.

But as I said before IF we do defend ourselves when it comes to things we have been unjustifiably criticised for then the Media will just deflect and point out things were we can be rightly criticised for.

I agree that we need to defend ourselves but it will be futile until we rid ourselves of the indefensible.

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

There is singing at Ibrox, dont be ridiculous.

If there is any sort of singing at Ibrox then it isnt many fans that sing and certainly not more than a few thousands lets be serious,and very rare would you get bigoted songs sung,so are you saying that at parkhead no sectarian songs get sung there? If you are then you are being ridiculous by saying that biogted songs get sung at Ibrox and not at parkhead,

No, I am saying we are under the spotlight at the moment. It doesn't matter if it's just a minority because there is so much scrutiny of what we sing then it will be picked up and highlighted.

Until we stop then Celtic can continue on - we need to become smarter about this.