UEFA to hammer Rangers

[Bothwellbear 1,392]

So i wonder if we can get this debate to the same amount as the Takeover thread.

[Bud72 117]

First time poster, long time Rangers fan. I am slightly disappointed at Walters's remarks, regarding the singing of our songs. I suppose his claims that he didn't know what they meant are the same as Ratzinger's, at a similar age when he joined the Hitler youth movement.

I sang the songs at the same age as Walter, and I very clearly understood what they meant. The fenians are Irish Republicans, they can be catholic or protestant, but they are most certainly Irish Republicans. Rangers fans did not create this name in order to sing bigoted songs. The Irish Republicans created the name, and still use it(banners on display at Celtic games).

Spiers once said on tv that Rangers fans did not use the word fenian in this context. I can assure you that we did. In my opinion Spiers should never have set foot in Ibrox again, after his shocking comments about Jock Wallace.

20,000 people in London sing Fuck the Pope, No not the bigots from Govan, these are ordinary middle class people, protesting against Ratzinger's visit to Britain. 600,000 Scottish catholics may wish to overlook this mans transgressions, but does that apply to the rest of us?

The neutrals amongst us(if there is such a thing) ask ,Why do you sing these songs? They have nothing to do with football.

Supporters of every team in the world sing songs that have nothing to do with football.

Celtic fans sing songs praising cold blooded murderers. People who have dedicated their lives to destroying the very fabric of our British way of life. We respond by singing songs in support of the people who have stopped them destroying our way of life.

Why is this considered sectarian?

It is very clear that there is an agenda here. Who could possibly hate The Rangers so much. I can't think of anyone at the moment, maybe it will come to me.

Could it be Spiers,Conti,Reid.Devine,LB,The Austrian . The one who tells his flock to fight for their faith. Who knows, but in the words of Harry Hill, thres only one way to find out. Fight. Fight for our very existance.Do not surrender to these people.

Remember people like Hitler. Musollini and Franco discovered that the longer and louder you shout, the more people are likely to believe your propoganda(I wonder what these 3 had in common)

Do not allow the to shout unchallenged any longer,

[SteveJ 743]

Does Ibrox have sectarian sections? What happens there?

You always try to place a twist on my posts!

I said IF I was in a sectarian section - I never once stated rangers FC have sectarian sections within the ground.

I will say for the 1000th time - I believe the fans who sing songs that are deemed to be sectarian are in a minority and this is proven by the moans from some that the Ibrox atmosphere is not as good as it used to be.

[thebooler 4,509]

You always try to place a twist on my posts!

I said IF I was in a sectarian section - I never once stated rangers FC have sectarian sections within the ground.

I will say for the 1000th time - I believe the fans who sing songs that are deemed to be sectarian are in a minority and this is proven by the moans from some that the Ibrox atmosphere is not as good as it used to be.

Care tae enlighten me on what songs that may be?

Are there quite a few?

Serious question.

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

First time poster, long time Rangers fan. I am slightly disappointed at Walters's remarks, regarding the singing of our songs. I suppose his claims that he didn't know what they meant are the same as Ratzinger's, at a similar age when he joined the Hitler youth movement.

I sang the songs at the same age as Walter, and I very clearly understood what they meant. The fenians are Irish Republicans, they can be catholic or protestant, but they are most certainly Irish Republicans. Rangers fans did not create this name in order to sing bigoted songs. The Irish Republicans created the name, and still use it(banners on display at Celtic games).

Spiers once said on tv that Rangers fans did not use the word fenian in this context. I can assure you that we did. In my opinion Spiers should never have set foot in Ibrox again, after his shocking comments about Jock Wallace.

20,000 people in London sing Fuck the Pope, No not the bigots from Govan, these are ordinary middle class people, protesting against Ratzinger's visit to Britain. 600,000 Scottish catholics may wish to overlook this mans transgressions, but does that apply to the rest of us?

The neutrals amongst us(if there is such a thing) ask ,Why do you sing these songs? They have nothing to do with football.

Supporters of every team in the world sing songs that have nothing to do with football.

Celtic fans sing songs praising cold blooded murderers. People who have dedicated their lives to destroying the very fabric of our British way of life. We respond by singing songs in support of the people who have stopped them destroying our way of life.

Why is this considered sectarian?

It is very clear that there is an agenda here. Who could possibly hate The Rangers so much. I can't think of anyone at the moment, maybe it will come to me.

Could it be Spiers,Conti,Reid.Devine,LB,The Austrian . The one who tells his flock to fight for their faith. Who knows, but in the words of Harry Hill, thres only one way to find out. Fight. Fight for our very existance.Do not surrender to these people.

Remember people like Hitler. Musollini and Franco discovered that the longer and louder you shout, the more people are likely to believe your propoganda(I wonder what these 3 had in common)

Do not allow the to shout unchallenged any longer,

Not a bad 1st post Bud.

I know I shouldn't but every time I see the words "1st time poster" I think "Hello timmy"

[SteveJ 743]

Care tae enlighten me on what songs that may be?

Are there quite a few?

Serious question.

This is the problem - nobody has come out and given a list of these songs, so no I cannot. I speak of the songs that are getting us in the shit but again, only Rangers will know what songs Uefa are moaning about.

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

This is the problem - nobody has come out and given a list of these songs, so no I cannot. I speak of the songs that are getting us in the shit but again, only Rangers will know what songs Uefa are moaning about.

So basically you pre judged the whole issue?

Thanks for clearing that up.

[SteveJ 743]

So basically you pre judged the whole issue?

Thanks for clearing that up.

No I never - we know that this current issue is regarding the term 'Fenian bastard' and that is what this UEFA sanction is regarding but I was asked a general question about a comment I made on sectarian chants inside IBROX and this is where I stand back and state that the list is something the Rangers fans who give a shite, want to see.

[thebooler 4,509]

This is the problem - nobody has come out and given a list of these songs, so no I cannot. I speak of the songs that are getting us in the shit but again, only Rangers will know what songs Uefa are moaning about.

Have you ever wondered why nobody has ever come out and given us a list of "these songs?"

Can you tell me what songs are "getting us in the shit again"?

If only Rangers know what songs Uefa are moaning about, then how can you possibly give the opinions you've been giving about fans singing songs?

These are all serious questions mate - I'm not trying to be sarcastic.

Oh aye, and where's this list that was supposed tae be getting handed over to both clubs by the Polis?

It seems tae have died a death as well.

[thebooler 4,509]

No I never - we know that this current issue is regarding the term 'Fenian bastard' and that is what this UEFA sanction is regarding but I was asked a general question about a comment I made on sectarian chants inside IBROX and this is where I stand back and state that the list is something the Rangers fans who give a shite, want to see.

Any links to this mate?

I can't find anything at all on what this latest issue is with Uefa.

[SteveJ 743]

Any links to this mate?

I can't find anything at all on what this latest issue is with Uefa.

It is the only thing i remember hearing being chanted at the game (no I was not there).

[thebooler 4,509]

It is the only thing i remember hearing being chanted at the game (no I was not there).

Ah OK, so ye don't know whit songs are banned?

Ye don't know whit songs Uefa are charging us with singing?

Ye mention the songs that are "getting us in the shit".

Ye don't have any links tae the charges?

Yer assuming it's cos of the term "fenian bastard".

And noo yer telling me ye wernae even at the game in question?

I struggle tae understand how ye can form such a strong opinion on the matter.

[SteveJ 743]

Ah OK, so ye don't know whit songs are banned?

Ye don't know whit songs Uefa are charging us with singing?

Ye mention the songs that are "getting us in the shit".

Ye don't have any links tae the charges?

Yer assuming it's cos of the term "fenian bastard".

And noo yer telling me ye wernae even at the game in question?

I struggle tae understand how ye can form such a strong opinion on the matter.

The strong opinion has been built over years and is not founded from this sole issue. Please remember that I have stated that this is the FOURTH time we have been in the UEFA dock in five years.

I don't know if you visit thebluenose at all, but if you do, you will have seen articles on the issues over the years. One informative read is found at: http://www.thebluenose.co.uk/assembly/uefa-directive/

UEFA Directive

Assembly - UEFA Directive

CLARIFICATION

UEFA DIRECTIVES.

Villareal

Following the two UEFA Champions League fixtures against Villareal in February and March 2006, UEFA charged Rangers FC for being responsible for discriminatory chants sung by sections of their supporters at both matches, in particular, the ‘Billy Boys’ and ‘Fuck the Pope’.

Rangers challenged the charges and the UEFA Control & Disciplinary Body cleared the Club in April 2006.

UEFA appealed that decision and the Disciplinary Inspector called for the closure of parts of Ibrox stadium, as well as a CHF 35,000 fine. UEFA rules also allowed the consideration of forcing Rangers to play matches behind closed doors, as well as a stadium ban.

The UEFA Appeals Body investigated the case and again Rangers FC challenged all charges. The club was fined CHF 30,000 and the closure or partial closure of Ibrox stadium, as originally sought, was prevented. However, the Club was severely warned about its responsibility for the future conduct of supporters and a directive was issued which stated (in conjunction with the Judgment from the Appeals Body):

• ‘Fuck the Pope’ is discriminatory under UEFA rules

• The ‘Billy Boys’ is associated “with an attitude that is strongly sectarian and thus discriminatory”.

• The directive also instructed to the Club to implement a range of measures to demonstrate its continuing efforts to eradicate sectarianism, including the banning of supporters indulging in such behaviour, communication of anti-sectarian messages etc.

• UEFA made it clear that the singing of the Billy Boys was prohibited. Songs and chants that referred to ‘fuck the Pope’ and ‘fenians’ were also condemned. The UEFA directive referred to the ‘ethos’ of its decision and said that a club such as Rangers should be in a position to encourage behaviour that would not jeopardise the club at domestic and international fixtures.

Osasuna

Following the UEFA Cup tie against Osasuna in March 2007, Rangers were fined 20,000 Swiss francs for “discriminatory singing” by its supporters. Osasuna was fined far more heavily due to the lack of security arrangements on the night.

UEFA specifically mentioned “No Pope in Rome”, “Fuck the Pope” and the Billy Boys as discriminatory singing and concluded the following:

“UEFA has to send a strong message that sectarianism is unacceptable within football, especially within UEFA competitions. If Rangers FC wishes to compete in UEFA competitions, they must combat this behaviour not only on the occasion of home matches but also on the occasion of away matches. These incidents are ascribable to Rangers FC in accordance with Article 6(1) RD and must be punished accordingly.”

Since that time, the Club has continued with informal liaison with UEFA and the Scottish football authorities and it is clear that the Club and its supporters are unlikely to be given the benefit of the doubt in the future should there be further incidents.

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

I honestly think there are very few would argue that FTP has had its day even though he may be the head of a vile organisation.

The word 'fenian' however is not sectarian ie appertaining to a sect.

It cannot have two meanings under any circumstances ie a cuddly republican meaning to them but a sectarian meaning to us.

A court of law would throw it out, just as a court of law would, if properly presented and with no ancillary behavoir, throw out the famine song as sectarian or racist.

The famine song is satire, outstanding satire at that, and they dont like it hence they played the racist/sectarian card to try and get it banned.

I suspect they may be overplaying that card and it might be like the wee bhoy who cried WOLF soon. Certainly as far as UEFA are concerned.

[thebooler 4,509]

The strong opinion has been built over years and is not founded from this sole issue. Please remember that I have stated that this is the FOURTH time we have been in the UEFA dock in five years.

I don't know if you visit thebluenose at all, but if you do, you will have seen articles on the issues over the years. One informative read is found at: http://www.theblueno...uefa-directive/

That's a Directive from Uefa mate.

The Laws of our country are what determines whether a person is guilty or innocent of a crime - not a footballing authority.

[SteveJ 743]

That's a Directive from Uefa mate.

The Laws of our country are what determines whether a person is guilty or innocent - not a footballing authority.

Yes but Rangers agreed to fall within this directive and asked the fans (if memory serves me well) to adhere to it.

[Bud72 117]

The first time Uefa loooked at the Villareal complaint they found no problem. After outrage from Conti, Gerhard Kapl appealed this decision

Who was advising Gerhard Kapl. Was it perhaps the member from the Irish Republic on the same commitee? Who knows.

Leggo mentioned the meeting with the SFA. Taylors's response that day concerned me. Why can they consistently play the political and historical card and we can't?

Why is their chairman allowed to pass comment on Rangers and the supporters without reprimand. People ask why the situation between the clubs appears to be getting worse. Rangers always are blamed. Nobody mentions the behavior of Martin O'neil, John Reid and Neil lennon for the increase in tension. People should take a good look at previous comments from these characters.

While we are on the subject of Uefa. How many serious misdemeanors must Celtic and their fans carry out before they lose their fair play award. I woul have thought that the points for this would have been wiped out by their racist attacks on Walters.Reyna and Diouf and their numerous attacks on referees.

[minnbear 30]

Yes but Rangers agreed to fall within this directive and asked the fans (if memory serves me well) to adhere to it.

The SFA thought they had rules as well. Then celtic showed up at their door with their QC.

[caseyjones 3,009]

No I never - we know that this current issue is regarding the term 'Fenian bastard' and that is what this UEFA sanction is regarding but I was asked a general question about a comment I made on sectarian chants inside IBROX and this is where I stand back and state that the list is something the Rangers fans who give a shite, want to see.

Where have UEFA stated what this latest investigation is about, or have Rangers published the details?

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

Poor StevieJ - canny seem to get his 'Facts' in order.

The only recognisable, audible chant which went on for any period of time at Eindhoven was Build My Gallows (about 20 minutes)

The UEFA observer made fleeting reference to anti ira chanting which is clearly what he was referring to.

The rest from FARE would appear to be a stool pigeon put in with the sole purpose of making a complaint.

A complaint so weak it took them a month to produce it.

I wonder if the result of the League Cup Final helped the process.

[debs1970 180]

STV news Thursday T Time showed two clips from Eindhoven. Both clips had audio and video.

First clip was fans singing Build my gallows, second clip not many singing, but they edited out the Fuck from F*ck the pope (sounded like one guy to me) but then I did only see it once so I may be wrong.

If I had to guess I"d say it's snippets from the likes of Youtube that are being used as "evidence" from Eindhoven.

Anyway, yesterday I go on the STV site to view the news again. Neither of the video clips from Eindhoven are on the news that's available on STV player.(Edited out).

The audio with the fans singing Build my gallows is playing in the background (although v v quietly) when the reporter's doing her piece to camera!

I'm just curious as to why it's been edited out. Legal issue with the owner of video or legal issue for airing it?

If that's the "evidence" of sectarian chanting then I smell a big pile of pooh!

[thebooler 4,509]

Yes but Rangers agreed to fall within this directive and asked the fans (if memory serves me well) to adhere to it.

Yes, "asked the fans" being an accurate description.

That's all they could do since there are no laws against the use of the word fenian, and therefore they couldn't insist.

This is what we, as fans, really need to be told.

Is it officially banned because it's against the law, or are we being asked not to use it because Uefa don't want us to use it?

If it's cos Uefa don't want us to use it, then the club and our authorities should be asking Uefa for explanations as to why they think they can over rule our countries laws.

[mithrandir713 8]

Yes, "asked the fans" being an accurate description.

That's all they could do since there are no laws against the use of the word fenian, and therefore they couldn't insist.

This is what we, as fans, really need to be told.

Is it officially banned because it's against the law, or are we being asked not to use it because Uefa don't want us to use it?

If it's cos Uefa don't want us to use it, then the club and our authorities should be asking Uefa for explanations as to why they think they can over rule our countries laws.

And why it's ok for the filth to sing about the ira! If that's political I don't see why TBBs isn't.

[thebooler 4,509]

And why it's ok for the filth to sing about the ira! If that's political I don't see why TBBs isn't.

You make a valid point mate, but to be honest, I couldnae really give a fuck whit that lot sing, so long as it's no aboot the Ibrox Disaster, Davie Cooper, or similar such events.

Rangers FC need to defend our right to sing our songs (provided they are not illegal) without using THEM as an excuse.

We need to defend our rights as Rangers FC - not in a tit-for-tat way involving scum.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Those wanting to sing and be dammed should read this thread:

Says it all well

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=183309&view=findpost&p=1058891309