Hello, Hello, We Are The Silly Boys!

[trueblueal 2,117]

That's fair do's mate. I could tell you 5 or 6 Rangers songs I don't sing because I hate them for various reasons - but I don't tell other's not to sing them

I must say I am pleasantly surprised to be given a positive first reply. Expected to have the tin hat on by now

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

I must say I am pleasantly surprised to be given a positive first reply. Expected to have the tin hat on by now

Not at all. You've not exactly been demanding of others or scaremongering ... unless I've missed that

[RFC55 110,289]

I must say I am pleasantly surprised to be given a positive first reply. Expected to have the tin hat on by now

tbh there was nothing wrong with your post mate! You said you didnt like it and thats it. You werent on preaching at people

[H72 265]

McBoyd was typing a post for ages...then fucks off out the thread leaving my excitement shattered on the floor.

[minstral 5,375]

Personally anything that isn't related to the football I have no interest in. Not interested in Irish politics of the modern or historic variety in any way. If others want to sing these songs it doesn't offend me but I don't join in.

At least you are honest and and if you do not want to sing the songs that is fine.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

At least you are honest and and if you do not want to sing the songs that is fine.

Exactly. There is absolutely no problem with that - if that's how someone feels.

It's when they step beyond that and scaremonger/preach to others - that get's my back up.

Other than that, everyone is free to support the team how they feel.

[McBoyd 355]

While I tend to think Caseys response was short, to the point, and, said it all really, I will give the benefit of the doubt, and, just think you have been reading a little too much of "papaers" such as the Scottish Sun, so, some responses in line for claritys sake

To touch on your last line, why are the latter two in there with bigotry? You do realise that that line IS a bigotted line? Perhaps even sectarian. Unionism = proud of your country. Protestantism = a religion, which most people in the UK are part of in one form or another, yet, you lump them in with bigotry thus implying outright that they are "bad"? tut tut.

"Most people in the UK are part of" Maybe 30 years ago, not these days.

I know hardly any "religious" people, and the ones that are, are not definitely not practicing, but rather christened at birth, and thats it, they don't attend church, and they don't follow "Gods law of the land", so to speak. I'm not belittling anyone that is actually religious, good on them for having faith in something, I just don't myself.

Protestantism though, has nothing to do with the heritage of Rangers. People forget this. Fifteen years Rangers existed before Celtic, (1872 - 1887,) and in those 15 years, as well as another good 20 (+) years before, and just after the first World War, Rangers had no religious secondary interests attached to the club or it's support. No match report or article mentions it, we had catholic players, and we had an unregonised amount of (irish) catholic following, most of whom I am sure left us for Celtic in 1888, but that's a different story.

It's part of the history, yes, but we were not started as a protestant club, and we did not have any 'anti catholic agenda' as has been stated for years with regarding signings and the such. (I'm talking Maurice Johnston being the 'first' catholic at Rangers in the 80's, terrible journalism to sell papers.) Rangers were started for the love of the football game, unlike our rivals across the city, who were started to raise money for catholicism and poor Irish Catholics in the East End of the city.

I don't have a problem with the club being linked with Unionism and Protestantism, but there is too much of this belief that Rangers ARE a protestant club, just because after World War 1 a protestant following appeared, (a little after the Irish influx to the city in the late 19th Century), the club became part of the religious 'war' that was going on in Glasgow at the time. (Note: The Billy Boys, knife gangs etc).

What happened to the football side of it?

People should follow Rangers in the way they want, but in my opinion, only up to a point. When these secondary interests that are attached to the clubs support suddenly start ruining the primary interest, the actual football, you have to say, when is enough, enough? For three home european games, not a single supporter is allowed to watch from the luxury of a seat inside Ibrox, this includes the ones that are not interested in anything but the football, but have to pay the price because others choose to continue with secondary interests regardless.

Yes, yes, there is debate as to why we were 'dobbed in' for singing songs when the match reports being claimed against, stated nothing wrong. But we'd be lying if we said the songs haven't been sung at all over the last two years.

I'll pose these questions to get some minds going.

If Celtic never came to be, would we be in a rivalry with Hibernian? Or would no religion have been attached to our club, because of a lack of catholicism attached to another?

Would our great rivals now be Aberdeen? Hibs? Queens Park? Who knows, if Queens Park didn't stay amateur, maybe the religious war within the city would have attached itself to that club instead, what would our 'traditions and heritage' have been then?

I also wonder what the original Rangers would have thought of all of this? Of the religious attachment to their club, (do remember, it really is their conception, their club)?

From what I remember these original Rangers set up matches to help Celtic gain momentum, and early 'Old Firm' matches were friendly. Are they hand wringers, apologists? They helped raise money for, and nurture a team that we now hate. (This interests me because I've seen McCoist get slagged on here for raising money towards Catholic charities). I can't speak for them, but I will take a strong betting that the founders of this club did not expect it to become embroiled in a religious hate war within Glasgow, I'm not sure most of them even survived long enough to see it start happening either.

This post is serious, and I'm interested in hearing what folk actually have to say about it, instead of getting 'hangwringer, apologist' rubbish as a response.

As I said, I'm not stating we should have to stop singing our songs or drop what some deem our traditions, but I am just questioning it all for discussion and out of interest.

[McBoyd 355]

McBoyd was typing a post for ages...then fucks off out the thread leaving my excitement shattered on the floor.

Happy now?

[Lisburn Rangers 254]

i will always sing our traditional songs if we stop do you think they will say well done guys you have come along way ? NO . they will say ok thats the 1st step now leave youre union jacks and ulster flags at home because they offend away fans we have won the most league titles in the world we have one of the best stadiums if not the best in WORLD football and we have waved our banners and sung our songs the whole way threw it .

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

McBoyd, why does your avatar on a Rangers forum have a crown on it with absolute pride - if you don't want the old traditional connotations to have anything to do with the club (hence your post) ??

I think it's a cracking picture and don't have a problem with it - but it contradicts and flies in the face of your post - imo.

[Dennis 1,011]

i will always sing our traditional songs if we stop do you think they will say well done guys you have come along way ? NO . they will say ok thats the 1st step now leave youre union jacks and ulster flags at home because they offend away fans we have won the most league titles in the world we have one of the best stadiums if not the best in WORLD football and we have waved our banners and sung our songs the whole way threw it .

Off-topic, I used to drink in the Linfield Rangers club in Lisburn is it still there? We used to stay with a guy called Dickie. Canny mind his second name.

[McBoyd 355]

McBoyd, why does your avatar on a Rangers forum have a crown on it with absolute pride - if you don't want the old traditional connotations to have anything to do with the club (hence your post) ??

I think it's a cracking picture and don't have a problem with it - but it contradicts and flies in the face of your post - imo.

Mr Galbraith, good evening sir.

The Union Jack and being part of Britain has nothing to do with Protestantism? Am I mistaken? I am a Unionist, in the sense that I believe in Britain, I am British, I have family that are Scottish and English.

I am not religious, so it doesn't contradict my post at all.

In short, I don't think religion should be a part of football, but that's my opinion.

You'll also notice, it's the English and Scottish flag. No Northern Ireland

[swanseabear 25]

The most annoying thing about this whole issue is the divide it has caused among fans. The opening post, whether you agree or not, is written in an articulate way. Straight away people are ready to tell him to fuck off, because as he doesn't want to sing songs with lyics that contain the word fenian, he's not a proper fan. Ludicrous!

Then the person who wants to chant TBB, TFS or whatever is apparently nothing but a knuckle-dragger. Again ludicrous. I am happy that debate happens, because what we sing, as a fanbase, has been causing problems, and that is the reality. If we work together collectively as a fanbase, we could perhaps try and move the club forwards, because to be honest, we've now come to a crossroad. Our image inside and outside Scotland is pretty poor. Some of us don't like being perceived as a bunch of bigots, which in reality is what lots of people think. These people are wrong. Rangers Football Club is a fantastic institution, rich in footballing history and tradition. But songs supporting the YCV or being knee-deep in fenian blood is what the outside world see and hear. Some people couldn't care less what others think. This is what Rangers is about, and if you don't like it then go fuck yourself.

The fact of the matter is that whether you want to scream TBB at the top of your lungs, or you would like to get rid of songs of this ilk, you are a Rangers fan, and we all support the best team you possibly could. Debate is good, but you must take on board others values, rather than the usual retorts like "you're no better than a tim" or "you're a knuckle dragger bringing the club down". We have enough people slagging this club off, so there's no point slagging each other off!

[minstral 5,375]

McBoyd the fact is we ended up being the Protestant club and are known all over the world as such.

[caseyjones 3,009]

Happy now?

After reading that, I doubt his excitement managed to leave the comfort of the Axminster.

[H72 265]

Happy now?

Very.

Rep'd.

[McBoyd 355]

After reading that, I doubt his excitement managed to leave the comfort of the Axminster.

An interesting post, I'm glad you decided to add it to the debate.

[OLE SUPER WILBERT 2,475]

Im not reading the whole thread but from what i've seen a lot of people are against singing TBB etc., yet songs like the billy boys and the famine song seem to be the loudest when they are sung, take the league cup final for example nearly every rangers fan was singing TBB, NPOR and the famine song and nobody complained about it then infact they said how good an atmosphere it was, so whats changed? Uefa have said not to sing but they have been saying that for years now so why the sudden change of heart?

[McBoyd 355]

McBoyd the fact is we ended up being the Protestant club and are known all over the world as such.

We are the famous Glasgow Rangers because of the honour of the club, the trophies we have won and the glory we bring, our stadium, our history (in regards to football) and our dignity. The religious part of it comes second to all of that, in my opinion, of course. That's the way I grew up supporting Rangers, there wasn't a religious side to it at all.

[caseyjones 3,009]

The most annoying thing about this whole issue is the divide it has caused among fans. The opening post, whether you agree or not, is written in an articulate way. Straight away people are ready to tell him to fuck off, because as he doesn't want to sing songs with lyics that contain the word fenian, he's not a proper fan. Ludicrous!

Then the person who wants to chant TBB, TFS or whatever is apparently nothing but a knuckle-dragger. Again ludicrous. I am happy that debate happens, because what we sing, as a fanbase, has been causing problems, and that is the reality. If we work together collectively as a fanbase, we could perhaps try and move the club forwards, because to be honest, we've now come to a crossroad. Our image inside and outside Scotland is pretty poor. Some of us don't like being perceived as a bunch of bigots, which in reality is what lots of people think. These people are wrong. Rangers Football Club is a fantastic institution, rich in footballing history and tradition. But songs supporting the YCV or being knee-deep in fenian blood is what the outside world see and hear. Some people couldn't care less what others think. This is what Rangers is about, and if you don't like it then go fuck yourself.

The fact of the matter is that whether you want to scream TBB at the top of your lungs, or you would like to get rid of songs of this ilk, you are a Rangers fan, and we all support the best team you possibly could. Debate is good, but you must take on board others values, rather than the usual retorts like "you're no better than a tim" or "you're a knuckle dragger bringing the club down". We have enough people slagging this club off, so there's no point slagging each other off!

People should be able to support the club any way they wish. When someone starts preaching and calling for Bears to be ejected/arrested, the least they deserve is to be ridiculed.

[McBoyd 355]

Im not reading the whole thread but from what i've seen a lot of people are against singing TBB etc., yet songs like the billy boys and the famine song seem to be the loudest when they are sung, take the league cup final for example nearly every rangers fan was singing TBB, NPOR and the famine song and nobody complained about it then infact they said how good an atmosphere it was, so whats changed? Uefa have said not to sing but they have been saying that for years now so why the sudden change of heart?

The fact that fans, regardless of their stance on any of this, will not be allowed in the stadium to support their team, our team. No matter why, who or how we were 'investigated' for singing these songs, and no matter your opinion on their level of sectarian content (to be honest, songs at matches mean nothing, I've sung them, I don't take it at anymore than banter level) the fact is, fans are being punished, and as such, so are the team from playing the football.

[minstral 5,375]

We are the famous Glasgow Rangers because of the honour of the club, the trophies we have won and the glory we bring, our stadium, our history (in regards to football) and our dignity. The religious part of it comes second to all of that, in my opinion, of course. That's the way I grew up supporting Rangers, there wasn't a religious side to it at all.

We all must have grown up supporting the club in different ways. In my days and all the games i went to, the songs were sung loud and proud. Another thing mate, the club used to sell LP records with all those bad songs.

[McBoyd 355]

We all must have grown up supporting the club in different ways. In my days and all the games i went to, the songs were sung loud and proud. Another thing mate, the club used to sell LP records with all those bad songs.

I never said they were bad songs Minstral

[McBoyd 355]

People should be able to support the club any way they wish. When someone starts preaching and calling for Bears to be ejected/arrested, the least they deserve is to be ridiculed.

But it's different if certain fans sing songs despite facing punishment, allowing our team to pick up a ban and now every fan is basically being ejected from the stadium for 3 matches?

People should be able to support the club how they wish true, and if it wasn't affecting the football side of things, it wouldn't bother me, I've never had a problem with any of the songs or anything attached to Rangers, but in the light of what's happened, no matter the cause, it's a different story.

[bombaybadboy08 15,660]

We are the famous Glasgow Rangers because of the honour of the club, the trophies we have won and the glory we bring, our stadium, our history (in regards to football) and our dignity. The religious part of it comes second to all of that, in my opinion, of course. That's the way I grew up supporting Rangers, there wasn't a religious side to it at all.

Great comment as I grew up supporting them in a different way and there was/is a religious side involved.

'No Pope of Rome' 'Hello Hello' 'Here lies a soldier' all 'Rangers songs' by default as they've been sang spurring the team on for as long as I've been alive.

Who are these pricks who haven't been part of that to come along and tell us we are bigots when it's been allowed for years?

I don't mean UEFA,i mean the arseholes complaining to them.

Anyone remember any periods during that time when we've been up to our knees in fenian blood?

Na that's right as they are words to a song and one that used to have the full stadium bouncing and now due to the club accepting attacks from all angles Ibrox is literally silent.

The club are the problem here not the fans,well apart from the ones that round on their own.

This isn't actually directed at you McBoyd,it was just that wee comment that made me think.

edit- none of the songs I mentioned are sectarian,just to clarify.