HMRC arrange for liquidators at Rangers if administrators fail to save club

[bazzl82 2]

The papers are taking 1 and 1 and coming out with 18 as usual this is only an indication of the what if and if it happens

[North Rd 2,860]

FFS More Tax Demands:

So HMRC now want 18.3m - STV

... while D&P were given wrong information "by the club" (I "like" the club bit) when estimating the initial debt.

+ + + (Ignoring the quote option, so the text is not "italicized")

Rangers administrators blame HMRC penalties for £4m tax bill increase

By Mike Farrell 7 June 2012 18:31 BST

Rangers administrators claim the club’s tax bill has increased by £4m because of interest and penalties added by the authorities.

According to a report released earlier this month, the Ibrox club now owe HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) an estimated £18.3m for non-payment of VAT and PAYE in the nine months following Craig Whyte's May 2011 takeover.

The penalties have added £4m to the tax debt originally specified as £14.3m in Duff and Phelps's statement to creditors released in April.

Mr Whyte deducted the tax from employees' wages but did not hand it over to HMRC, instead using it as a source of working capital at Ibrox.

On Thursday, a spokesman for the administrators claimed that the increase in the club's tax liability was not the result of any failure to pay PAYE or VAT since they were appointed on February 14.

The administrators also said the figure had risen as a result of "new information coming to light" which differed from what the club's owners had given them.

The spokesman said: "The £14.3m figure was Duff and Phelps’ calculations based on the information provided to them by the club at the time.

"The £18.3m takes into account HMRC’s full claim as creditors apart from both the big and wee tax cases.

"A substantial part of that increase is down to penalties and interest being added by HMRC for non-payment. It is also to do with new information coming to light in its claim, which differed from the information provided by the club to the administrators initially."

The administrator’s spokesman said "all tax has been paid on behalf of Rangers since their appointment on February 14" and stated the increase was not in relation to new debts built up since the insolvency firm was appointed.

When administrators were called in earlier this year, the HMRC debt was estimated at £9m by the administrators. But this rose to £14m in Duff and Phelps' first report to creditors the following month,

Rangers owe HMRC around £3m for the 'wee' tax case, which centres on the club’s use of a discounted options scheme to pay players Tore Andre Flo and Ronald de Boer from 2000 to 2003.

The club is also awaiting the first tier tribunal’s decision on the 'big' tax case, in which Rangers are appealing against HMRC’s decision that the way they used offshore employee benefit trusts (EBTs) breached tax law. Under Sir David Murray’s ownership the club paid part of the salaries of staff and players using loans from the trusts between 2001 and 2010.

The use of such trusts was not illegal, but the way in which Rangers allegedly (inserted by dB) deployed them to pay wages found them in breach of the rules according to HMRC. Legislation introduced last March was designed to clampdown on the schemes by imposing tax-charges on loans from the trusts.

According to administrators, Rangers could face a tax bill of up to £75m if they are unsuccessful in the tax tribunal case, which concluded hearing evidence in January and is still to report its findings over the use of EBTs.

... sayest STV

[RFC55 108,908]

Wtf is happening with the BTC verdict?

[Edmiston Drive 3,846]

Wtf is happening with the BTC verdict?

It's gone to penalties and Blatter is raging.

[Guardian 4,281]

It doesn't much matter if we owe the taxman £30m, £50m, £100m or a £1bn

The full amount will never be paid and has little relevance now.

I don't know whether the BTC verdict not being in is a good thing or a bad thing.

Gut feeling says it's probably best unknown til after the CVA.

Wouldn't surprise me to see it trotted out at a critical moment.

[Straight-Edge-Loyal 6,686]

Spot on bud.....the very same dave king who said well over a month ago that he was taking murray to court for his £2om, now at this late stage he turns round and states he will seek the money from the club.

You are really coming out of your hole now davey boy you piece of keech.

I would assume Murray has told him to take a flying fuck to himself and he sees the club as his last chance to claw it back.

While adding to our debt with a debt that wouldn't be included in the CVA because King didn't plan suing us for the money.

With advising us not to buy season tickets and chasing the club for money it seems like King has suddenly decided to wake up and try aquire us for himself. Particularly with the "first refusal" story that came out a wee while ago.

All in all it seems like sour grapes however we all thought that about AJ and Bain and they turned out correct so I have doubts about Green for the first time really.

[sprotson11 147]

I would assume Murray has told him to take a flying fuck to himself and he sees the club as his last chance to claw it back.

While adding to our debt with a debt that wouldn't be included in the CVA because King didn't plan suing us for the money.

With advising us not to buy season tickets and chasing the club for money it seems like King has suddenly decided to wake up and try aquire us for himself. Particularly with the "first refusal" story that came out a wee while ago.

All in all it seems like sour grapes however we all thought that about AJ and Bain and they turned out correct so I have doubts about Green for the first time really.

So he wants 20m from the club but he will reinvest it, so basically wants the club for nothing!!

[Bertent 2,081]

t so I have doubts about Green for the first time really.

Im sure that was Kings aim.

But why hasnt he specified the problem as he sees it? Unless of course the only problem is that King isnt in the driving seat himself.

[Straight-Edge-Loyal 6,686]

So he wants 20m from the club but he will reinvest it, so basically wants the club for nothing!!

Don't know if he will reinvest it or not was just speculating on my part however I wouldn't be shocked at this being the case and considering Green is putting less than ten million in to the club then it is a "better deal" assuming that is his plan.

In saying that while I have doubts about Green now I would much prefer him to King or TBK.

[Straight-Edge-Loyal 6,686]

Im sure that was Kings aim.

But why hasnt he specified the problem as he sees it? Unless of course the only problem is that King isnt in the driving seat himself.

I agree that probably was his aim to spread doubt but why?

It is possible he has seen documentation that shows Green as a Whyte style character and that's why he OS delivering the warning.

However I suspect it is because someone else is buying the club rather than him does that mean King is wrong to warn us though?

[Bertent 2,081]

I agree that probably was his aim to spread doubt but why?

It is possible he has seen documentation that shows Green as a Whyte style character and that's why he OS delivering the warning.

However I suspect it is because someone else is buying the club rather than him does that mean King is wrong to warn us though?

If he has evidence to back up his claims surely he has a duty to raise the issue with the relevant governing agency's and to be specific in his statements to the fans/stakeholders. Cause surely any such evidence would indicate that the Administrators are falsifying their statements to creditors.

[Straight-Edge-Loyal 6,686]

If he has evidence to back up his claims surely he has a duty to raise the issue with the relevant governing agency's and to be specific in his statements to the fans/stakeholders. Cause surely any such evidence would indicate that the Administrators are falsifying their statements to creditors.

I don't know if he has or has seen evidence was just a possible reason he is being so out spoken at the moment. There must be a reason for it I agree he should have said though rather than telling the fans what to do with no reasons given but Leggo also had the same idea last week as well.

As let's face it this is the last thing we need at this time as we seem to be getting closer to the end game now.

[jonbryce 63]

Jesus. Why would HMRC even contemplate liquidation if the CVA decision lies with them?

Why do HMRC want to appoint a different company to put us through liquadation too?

Then we have King asking fans not to buy season books whilst at the same time telling us he is making a claim against the club for hsi investment, what was it, £20m or so?

WTF!

Well it is them and Ticketus. Both need to approve it. Nobody else's votes matter.

But certainly it does look worrying.

[jonbryce 63]

Umm... Surely that's just normal procedure? What a ground-breaking story.

No it's not. Normal proceedure in that they can do it if they want, but it very rarely happens.

[jonbryce 63]

Not looking good at all!

Brace yourselves for a newco

Dave King has let me down here, chasing the Club for £20m. Am I right in saying that if he does chase "the club" for £20m, and we are newco'd.. will his claim not be null and void?

This whole thing is beginning to stink again. Why any of us would risk not paying for season tickets is beyond me, 'let's all just not give the Club money and watch it suffer again and again'

King really needs to explain more his intentions behind these ideas.

It would go into the CVA or liquidation pot, and he would get a bit less than 9p/£, maybe about £1.5m or so at the expense of other creditors.