The Enemy Within

[Bothwellbear 1,392]

One thing is clear 'fans' like you we can do without, particularly at this time of need.

Now is a time to rise above the menace of Rome, an opportunity for the rank and file Ranger to rewind the Ibrox video and undo the damage that Murray sought to inflict on our great club...beginning with the day Johnston signed.

'The Murray Generation' have done enough damage to our club thank you very much, Octopus is a shining example of the Legacy left to us by he who sought to destroy Rangers, a man who clearly does not understand the value of tradition and loyalty - We are Presbyterian Scotland..and Presbyterian Scotland is us.

The soil of our forefathers still belongs to us, the blood they spilt for this land must be redeemed.. we will not baulk nor stand for this silent revolution, these papal whispers that slowly bring us despair.

Once we let our guard slip and before you know it we have this one and that one in the light blue, all of a sudden we can't sing our anthems nor speak our minds, we are labelled vile perverts by all and sundry and no one defends us yet - indeed we are expected to say sorry!!!...where does it all end I ask you?

First they came for the communists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me

and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Many people of different faiths,creeds, colours have spilled blood for this country. If you want to exercise your faith then go to church. You may even learn about what it actually is to be a protestant, a Christian, a religion that is based on the teachings of Christ. Rangers are a football club, open to everyone. The gallant pioneers set our standards, not people hijacking the name for their own political goals.

If you are so concerned with the so called boogie man that is the catholic church. Stand for election. By I will agree with a few others in here, there is no catholic brainwashing in this country. Britain is becoming more and more secular every day (and I am a church going protestant),

[Saddam Ghandi 17]

This is a joke surely? Please tell me this is a joke.

Your literally the first person ive ever heard, Rangers fan or otherwise, to paint the Mo Johnston signing as anything other than a positive step forward. And to say that the signing was infact the beginning of some sort of ethnic cleansing conspiracy is just insane.

The real 'joke' in this whole sorry saga we find engulfing Rangers at the moment is the division in our ranks. A noticeable deterrent, an obvious obstacle as we attempted to unite for the good of our club recently. You see at the heart lies a clandestine online campaign seemingly ordained by bleeding heart liberals.

I say No to this shameful shirking of Rangers great traditions, people can't seriously be expected to surrender a Legacy so grand. In these times of repeated attacks bloodthirsty enemies are desperate to eradicate our club and our way of life, they won't stop once the wheels are in motion.

[Octopus 27]

The real 'joke' in this whole sorry saga we find engulfing Rangers at the moment is the division in our ranks. A noticeable deterrent, an obvious obstacle as we attempted to unite for the good of our club recently. You see at the heart lies a clandestine online campaign seemingly ordained by bleeding heart liberals.

I say No to this shameful shirking of Rangers great traditions, people can't seriously be expected to surrender a Legacy so grand. In these times of repeated attacks bloodthirsty enemies are desperate to eradicate our club and our way of life, they won't stop once the wheels are in motion.

Your away with the fairies. Far away.

[knowledge 21]

"Long since left behind" was a reference to not how long ago the handshake was, but how far we've come from the worst of the troubles in the 80's, to the handshake taking place. I thought that was clear, sorry you missed it.

So 20-30 yrs is "long since left behind"?

The Jock Wallace days at Ibrox are "long since left behind"?

Just as well you're an octopus. Two arms to type, two to dig yourself out of holes and four to scratch your head.

[The Godfather 72,643]

[Jolymack 3]

One thing is clear 'fans' like you we can do without, particularly at this time of need.

Now is a time to rise above the menace of Rome, an opportunity for the rank and file Ranger to rewind the Ibrox video and undo the damage that Murray sought to inflict on our great club...beginning with the day Johnston signed.

'The Murray Generation' have done enough damage to our club thank you very much, Octopus is a shining example of the Legacy left to us by he who sought to destroy Rangers, a man who clearly does not understand the value of tradition and loyalty - We are Presbyterian Scotland..and Presbyterian Scotland is us.

The soil of our forefathers still belongs to us, the blood they spilt for this land must be redeemed.. we will not baulk nor stand for this silent revolution, these papal whispers that slowly bring us despair.

Once we let our guard slip and before you know it we have this one and that one in the light blue, all of a sudden we can't sing our anthems nor speak our minds, we are labelled vile perverts by all and sundry and no one defends us yet - indeed we are expected to say sorry!!!...where does it all end I ask you?

First they came for the communists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me

and there was no one left to speak out for me. Sad dam , time to return to CQN methinks

[knowledge 21]

The ruling monarch has no say in the Church of Scotland, the only appointment the kirk makes is to name a moderator each year and he/she has no official powers, he/she is only the spokesperson for the Kirk. The leader of the Church of Scotland is Christ, the clergy are all equal and appointed by the members of each parish or church. The older buildings that used to be Cathedrals (such as Dunblane) are not Cathedrals anymore because a Cathedral has to have a bishop and of course there are no such appointments to the church of Scotland. They are officially "High Kirks". I am often amazed at those who profess the greatest hatred for the church of Rome while espousing Scottish Protestantism have little to no idea of the emunical differences between the two. And this is where Scots Protestantism is SOOOO different from that in England, the English Church is in reality was just a political split, the Scottish one was/is based on differences in the set up of the church and ways to worship one of the most important being that services should be conducted in English and that all people should be able to read the bible for themselves with Clergy being a guide or a teacher, not a dictorial authoritarian figure telling the flock what passages mean. And this reading of the bible was NOT gender specific. This led to the transformation of Scotland from being one of Europe's poorest countries to being the WORLDS first literate society,

These are the things we SHOULD be espoucing NOT hatres of a silly wee man in Rome who wears a dress and is so far out of touch with reality, further the biggest bigots on each side of the Old firm divide will have been in a church mibbees 3 times, their Christening, their marriage and their funeral. Organised religion through churches is dying a sure death on both sides.

So while I champion Rangers rich Scottish Protestant heritage I see no need to promote this as hatred for Catholics, espouce it by promoting our own positive rich culture and Heritage, Sing the Sash, Derry's Walls and The Cry, but leave out the add ons, there is just no need and without them we promote the hsitory and culture with the overthrow of a bigoted religion, with them it makes us no better than them.

Largely factually correct. I made the point about the Kirk educating the land elsewhere.

Irrespective of hatred (a waste of energy) history teaches us that any group has to constantly defend itself from rome whose insidious creeping nature will always attempt to take control, often by weight of numbers.

[Bothwellbear 1,392]

Largely factually correct. I made the point about the Kirk educating the land elsewhere.

Irrespective of hatred (a waste of energy) history teaches us that any group has to constantly defend itself from rome whose insidious creeping nature will always attempt to take control, often by weight of numbers.

What church do you attend every Sunday?

I want to go to a service there to see if that opinion is being thumped from the pullpit. I strongly doubt it is.

[Bothwellbear 1,392]

Largely factually correct. I made the point about the Kirk educating the land elsewhere.

Irrespective of hatred (a waste of energy) history teaches us that any group has to constantly defend itself from rome whose insidious creeping nature will always attempt to take control, often by weight of numbers.

History also teaches us that Scotland, England, Ireland and Wales were all Catholic countries before they were ever protestant.

[cambyloyal 20]

Was there not just 10 of them?

Love it haha

[Jonok 1,245]

The ruling monarch has no say in the Church of Scotland, the only appointment the kirk makes is to name a moderator each year and he/she has no official powers, he/she is only the spokesperson for the Kirk. The leader of the Church of Scotland is Christ, the clergy are all equal and appointed by the members of each parish or church. The older buildings that used to be Cathedrals (such as Dunblane) are not Cathedrals anymore because a Cathedral has to have a bishop and of course there are no such appointments to the church of Scotland. They are officially "High Kirks". I am often amazed at those who profess the greatest hatred for the church of Rome while espousing Scottish Protestantism have little to no idea of the emunical differences between the two. And this is where Scots Protestantism is SOOOO different from that in England, the English Church is in reality was just a political split, the Scottish one was/is based on differences in the set up of the church and ways to worship one of the most important being that services should be conducted in English and that all people should be able to read the bible for themselves with Clergy being a guide or a teacher, not a dictorial authoritarian figure telling the flock what passages mean. And this reading of the bible was NOT gender specific. This led to the transformation of Scotland from being one of Europe's poorest countries to being the WORLDS first literate society,

These are the things we SHOULD be espoucing NOT hatres of a silly wee man in Rome who wears a dress and is so far out of touch with reality, further the biggest bigots on each side of the Old firm divide will have been in a church mibbees 3 times, their Christening, their marriage and their funeral. Organised religion through churches is dying a sure death on both sides.

So while I champion Rangers rich Scottish Protestant heritage I see no need to promote this as hatred for Catholics, espouce it by promoting our own positive rich culture and Heritage, Sing the Sash, Derry's Walls and The Cry, but leave out the add ons, there is just no need and without them we promote the hsitory and culture with the overthrow of a bigoted religion, with them it makes us no better than them.

good post

[WVB 2,560]

History also teaches us that Scotland, England, Ireland and Wales were all Catholic countries before they were ever protestant.

Only because the Roman Empire made it that way.

We do not need the influence of Rome in our country.

.....or any other religion for that matter.......but the Roman Catholic doctrine is being allowed to get its claws into our society again, and if it is not addressed it will become a bigger problem.

Also, seeing as Protestantism came about due to the people feeling dis-enfranchised with papal catholicism, your statement isn't really relevant in the context its being applied.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Many people of different faiths,creeds, colours have spilled blood for this country. If you want to exercise your faith then go to church. You may even learn about what it actually is to be a protestant, a Christian, a religion that is based on the teachings of Christ. Rangers are a football club, open to everyone. The gallant pioneers set our standards, not people hijacking the name for their own political goals.

If you are so concerned with the so called boogie man that is the catholic church. Stand for election. By I will agree with a few others in here, there is no catholic brainwashing in this country. Britain is becoming more and more secular every day (and I am a church going protestant),

I have stayed well clear of this arguement for quite some time but this post drew me in.

Like you Bothwellbear, I too am a church going Protestant, and I would seriously defend the expression of that faith wherever or whenever it manifests itself. "Preach the gospel in season and out of season"

I cringe on here, and particularly during this thread, at what some see, describe or believe as an expression of our "Protestant heritage". Just so that some know...singing "F*** the pope" is not an expression of your Protestant heritage....its a very poor, as well as primary ammunition for our enemies, expression of your opposition to the Roman Catholic church.

However going back to your post Bothwell, its not accurate reflection either Im afraid.

Rangers are a football club, open to everyone. The gallant pioneers set our standards, not people hijacking the name for their own political goals.

What you have omitted however is the characterisation and identity of our club from 1888 onwards and particularly during the period after the First World War when our club embraced and devolped a strong Unionist, Protestant identity. This had nothing to do with any ideals the club had at inception, but developed over time due to the strong Irish/Catholic identity of Celtic FC. A Scottish indegenous population wanted a club which similarly reflected their beliefs and culture and Rangers - probably due to as Prof Graeme Walker alludes to favourable transport links to Ibrox - became that chosen platform - as opposed to the likes of Clyde or Queens Park.

Furthermore your assertion that there is no catholic brainwashing in our country is inaccurate as well. Many who have gone through that educational process will attest to that.

If we are ever to move on in a debate such as this its essential we acknowledge where we came from and what we stood for...not airbrush it convienently from our history.

[knowledge 21]

History also teaches us that Scotland, England, Ireland and Wales were all Catholic countries before they were ever protestant.

Yes and that before that they worshipped other gods, oh and before that they worshipped other gods. Your point being?

[.Williamson. 83,755]

This thread has many an idiot

[Octopus 27]

.

Furthermore your assertion that there is no catholic brainwashing in our country is inaccurate as well. Many who have gone through that educational process will attest to that.

Not wishing to answer on BothwellBears behalf or anything but both he and I were referring specifically to the brainwashing of non-Catholics, which was the allegation made by two people in this thread.

We all know that Catholic schools exist purely to indoctrinate their young, but this isn't something that can only be said of Catholicism. All religions have been reliant on indoctrinating children for millenia, It's how the've survived for so long. They all learned early on that it's extremely difficult to convince adults to believe in their nonsence, so best to get them while they are young.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Not wishing to answer on BothwellBears behalf or anything but both he and I were referring specifically to the brainwashing of non-Catholics, which was the allegation made by two people in this thread.

We all know that Catholic schools exist purely to indoctrinate their young, but this isn't something that can only be said of Catholicism. All religions have been reliant on indoctrinating children for millenia, It's how the've survived for so long. They all learned early on that it's extremely difficult to convince adults to believe in their nonsence, so best to get them while they are young.

there is no catholic brainwashing in this country

I can only respond to what people write...not to what they think they are writing.

[Saddam Ghandi 17]

I have many Catholic friends... They don't shame my club ..... You do !

Hmmm...And yet here you are requesting I return to CQN?

Do the Rangers traditions and their associations with Queen and God "shame" you too as your fellow supporters so obviously do?

Perhaps we do not want a 'cool' club with every trendy fanny with 'fifteen minutes of' disgracing the club, just maybe we do not wish to be seen as avant garde. We are sedate, we have our culture, we are Establishment in this little land.

We have traditions, loyalty, brotherhood (and sisterhood ) that demand protection, as I said on another thread I am all for a short term financial downsizing if only it meant that our club reverted to type and re-establishes all the old traditions that made us what we are today.

Without this passion for Legacy we are finished, to take two steps forward we MUST take a small step back and find our comfort zone, never before has upholding the ways set by our blood before us been so relevant - this for me is actual modern-thinking, not late 20th century passive, liberal flip-flopping hoping for a multi-cultures utopia which simply is not there!...now is the time for bold radical steps, preserve our club, traditions and way of life - your children will pass your name down in legend.

[Octopus 27]

I can only respond to what people write...not to what they think they are writing.

yes if you take that one line out of context, like you have, you can make it sound however you like. But that line, when taken with the rest of the post in which it was made, and more importantly, read alongside the posts it was responding to, you then get the full picture.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

yes if you take that one line out of context, like you have, you can make it sound however you like. But that line, when taken with the rest of the post in which it was made, and more importantly, read alongside the posts it was responding to, you then get the full picture.

Ive read it a number of times now....and nowhere does it assert it applies to non-catholics in that post.

So what exactly have I taken out of context ?

[Saddam Ghandi 17]

yes if you take that one line out of context, like you have, you can make it sound however you like. But that line, when taken with the rest of the post in which it was made, and more importantly, read alongside the posts it was responding to, you then get the full picture.

Is that an Octopus I see floundering on the beach? What a load of waffle from 'Paul'.

[glesgabear81 24]

One thing is clear 'fans' like you we can do without, particularly at this time of need.

Now is a time to rise above the menace of Rome, an opportunity for the rank and file Ranger to rewind the Ibrox video and undo the damage that Murray sought to inflict on our great club...beginning with the day Johnston signed.

'The Murray Generation' have done enough damage to our club thank you very much, Octopus is a shining example of the Legacy left to us by he who sought to destroy Rangers, a man who clearly does not understand the value of tradition and loyalty - We are Presbyterian Scotland..and Presbyterian Scotland is us.

The soil of our forefathers still belongs to us, the blood they spilt for this land must be redeemed.. we will not baulk nor stand for this silent revolution, these papal whispers that slowly bring us despair.

Once we let our guard slip and before you know it we have this one and that one in the light blue, all of a sudden we can't sing our anthems nor speak our minds, we are labelled vile perverts by all and sundry and no one defends us yet - indeed we are expected to say sorry!!!...where does it all end I ask you?

First they came for the communists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me

and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Sabre rattling and grandstanding in the extreme yet you haven't managed to provide any justification why Rangers Football Club should be used as a platform for a minority of political and religious extremists.

You are a dying breed of "fan", you and your counterparts in the east end will be forced to take it outside of Scottish football sooner rather than later. The rest of us can enjoy the football and get on with supporting the team.

[Octopus 27]

Ive read it a number of times now....and nowhere does it assert it applies to non-catholics in that post.

So what exactly have I taken out of context ?

He said in that same post that he agreed with others who said RC wasn't trying to brainwash people.

By "others" he meant me.

Which was a reference to an argument I was having with Saddam,Jack and knowledge. Who accused me of being brainwashed by RC.

But look, this thread is a fucking nightmare, you would have to dig through about 5 hours worth of pointless arguments to get the full picture, so lets just leave it there mate eh?

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

He said in that same post that he agreed with others who said RC wasn't trying to brainwash people.

By "others" he meant me.

Which was a reference to an argument I was having with Saddam,Jack and knowledge. Who accused me of being brainwashed by RC.

But look, this thread is a fucking nightmare, you would have to dig through about 5 hours worth of pointless arguments to get the full picture, so lets just leave it there mate eh?

Im not happy to leave anything - Im hoping bothwellbear responds. And I certainly wont be held accoutnable for reading and responding to something someone has written if they actually meant to say something else, but failed to do so.

[Octopus 27]

Sabre rattling and grandstanding in the extreme yet you haven't managed to provide any justification why Rangers Football Club should be used as a platform for a minority of political and religious extremists.

You are a dying breed of "fan", you and your counterparts in the east end will be forced to take it outside of Scottish football sooner rather than later. The rest of us can enjoy the football and get on with supporting the team.

Well said mate.

Is it just me or does he sound like a really obvious parody account with all that Sabre rattling tripe?