bauba30 1 Posted June 3, 2007 Author Share Posted June 3, 2007 Yes I do know what you are saying...but if you read through this thread Queens... at no time have I introduced the topic of religion or let alone claimed certain elements were exclusive.I think you will find that you moved the topic down that road. As you do on a weekly basis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgruntled_bear 157 Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 frankie when you think about it look at the american irish catholic that follow celtic and their not ashamed of it and celtic play up to it selling merchandise and their fans who get all misty eyed telling you that celtic helped the catholic population, but hey they make money out of those fans,yet we if rangers mention protestant traditions we are all bigots. also do you know what sickens me is celtic promote their catholic traditions yet rangers run scared of the media and try to hide our traditions.100% spot on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
justiston 91 Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 Yes maybe it was but it does not make it right.... but what I find really offensive is the association you make with Protestant traditions and values and such inexcusable behaviour.I never tried to defend my actions when younger, I was stupid and naive to sing them(and i could blame my dad for letting me ) what is it exactly that is offensive? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Manticore* 1,893 Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 you said people are free to celebrate their cultures, what if their cultures are sectarian or racists?There can't be a picking and choosing surely.Either all personal beliefs are allowed, religious, race etc or they are all kept to homes and churches.Pathetic j.I challenge you to show one post where I have said that racist or sectarian behaviour is acceptable.Or are you big enough to apologise? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Artagnan 13,319 Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 I think you will find that you moved the topic down that road. As you do on a weekly basis.Bauba believe me - If I want to go down that road - I willI have absolutely no shame whatsover in our Protestant heritage - in fact Im immensely proud of it.However much of what I posted was based on the exemplary professionalism we displayed in our early days - and that was not based on faith/culture - but a story recounted to me regarding a conversation between Mr Struth and the Ibrox kit man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauba30 1 Posted June 3, 2007 Author Share Posted June 3, 2007 And they have every right to.What they do not have a right to is to dismiss the impact that religious tag had on our club through its development.Nobody has dismissed it - it certainly shaped the club thorughout its first 100 years. The club. My earlier argument was that it had absolutely no effect on the team on the park being successful. We were a successful protestant club as opposed to a club who was successful because they were protestantIMO Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Artagnan 13,319 Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 I never tried to defend my actions when younger, I was stupid and naive to sing them(and i could blame my dad for letting me ) what is it exactly that is offensive?The link you seem to make between fine and wholesome ideals and virtues....and offensive behaviour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauba30 1 Posted June 3, 2007 Author Share Posted June 3, 2007 Thanks D'Art.Max Weber's 'The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism' is another relevant book.Not an easy read though....Thing was Dave, I was brought up outside a world of hate that others seem to have been a lifetime member of. SO I was interested of tales of players, trophies, wins, goals, etc etcThe other stuff didn't interest me - wasn't important come Saturday at 3pm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
justiston 91 Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 The link you seem to make between fine and wholesome ideals and virtues....and offensive behaviour.ofcourse there sa difference, religious ideals, and sectarian behaviour - the only problem, like I said before, people have different opinions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Manticore* 1,893 Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 Thing was Dave, I was brought up outside a world of hate that others seem to have been a lifetime member of. SO I was interested of tales of players, trophies, wins, goals, etc etcThe other stuff didn't interest me - wasn't important come Saturday at 3pmThat's maybe where I have the advantage over you.There was no hatred in my upbringing, and there is no room in my life for hatred now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricardopatrese 0 Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 Thing was Dave, I was brought up outside a world of hate that others seem to have been a lifetime member of. SO I was interested of tales of players, trophies, wins, goals, etc etcThe other stuff didn't interest me - wasn't important come Saturday at 3pm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauba30 1 Posted June 3, 2007 Author Share Posted June 3, 2007 minstral:You make a very interesting point. Celtic do make a huge thing of their catholic traditions and background. Quite rightly too. Similarly, despite not being the most religious person myself, I understand the pride many of our own fans have for our Protestant associations. I've no idea why some fans would choose to belittle it or distance themselves from it. As D'Art and D_S have pointed out, our club gained inspiration from these values and it has arguably been as important a part of our history as every other positive issue which ensured our greatness.Indeed, and somewhat controversially (although I am playing devil's advocate obviously), some fans refuting this fact and falling Church of Scotland attendances in recent years, may show that losing these disappearing values could also be contributing to our club's weakening challenge against a Celtic club who are building on their traditions not trying to hide them.So, it had nothing to do with the fact that we are no longer able to pay 6-12 million quid for players or that we have employed managers who have had a nasty habit of signing diddies? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgruntled_bear 157 Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 See the thing is, Us in the west of scotland have to live with the divide and if your a protestant or a Rangers fan. It's like a red flag to a bull to some people Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
minstral 5,375 Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 bauba becaue people are proud of their protestant traditions does not mean that they were brought up with hate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Manticore* 1,893 Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 bauba becaue people are proud of their protestant traditions does not mean that they were brought up with hate.Exactly m.Some folk only seem to be able to understand Protestantism in terms of bigotry and hatred.They are happily peddling our enemies agenda,And before you pounce can I remind those who have read my previous posts that I am not a Protestant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauba30 1 Posted June 3, 2007 Author Share Posted June 3, 2007 frankie when you think about it look at the american irish catholic that follow celtic and their not ashamed of it and celtic play up to it selling merchandise and their fans who get all misty eyed telling you that celtic helped the catholic population, but hey they make money out of those fans,yet we if rangers mention protestant traditions we are all bigots. also do you know what sickens me is celtic promote their catholic traditions yet rangers run scared of the media and try to hide our traditions.Minstral, you constantly bring Celtic into this argument but they have absolutely no relevance - if Celtic want to tap dance across the Irish Sea I couldn't give a flying you-know-what - they are of no importance in my life whatsoever other that the fact that they are one of 11 teams we have to beat each yearSeems to me that the traditionalists seem to like comparing them to us as a means of humanising their arguments. But that is a one way street as we simply do not care Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauba30 1 Posted June 3, 2007 Author Share Posted June 3, 2007 Sometimes I despair on here D'Art.Some folk just will not inform themselves properly, but continue to spout their opinions, regardless of the facts.Personally I try to make my opinions based on facts, it's a bit of a hang up I have.Really? when you gonna start? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Manticore* 1,893 Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 Pathetic j.I challenge you to show one post where I have said that racist or sectarian behaviour is acceptable.Or are you big enough to apologise?Off to bed now but I still would like an answer j. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Manticore* 1,893 Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 Really? when you gonna start?bauba nobody likes a smartass. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricardopatrese 0 Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 Interesting how the usual proddy arguments get the usual guys involved on here. I couldnt care less for either religion and certainly wouldnt defend the bead-rattlers, but coming from glasgows west end (partick/byres rd./ suchiehall st. etc) i defy anyone to stick up for the likes of the orange walk brigade. fucking stupid excuse for masquerading a mass-6am-til-8pm-piss-up as some kind of celebration of something that 98% of the walkling people involved don't have a fucking clue about, nor any links to.If you guys wanted to celebrate the orange order and defend it's rights properly, you would have got involved years ago before the fucking morons got involved and turned it into a window-lickers parade that the rest of the world laugh at.BTW, don't dare suggest that I am one of them as a result of this post. I stood up to these twats when I lived in Glasgow and supported Rangers and I'll stand up to them now. The original Orange order I can understand and empathise with, the the tits that jump on the bandwagon are the ones that drag down the good name of good orangemen (of whom there are a decreasing numer) and our club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
justiston 91 Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 David, read up, I was not implying anything by yourself personaly, you were just stating cultural belifs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauba30 1 Posted June 3, 2007 Author Share Posted June 3, 2007 Did you have a nice meal ?Yeah thanks - bbq turkey with potato chips, coleslaw and lemonade. Trying to get a little more healthy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgruntled_bear 157 Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 Exactly m.Some folk only seem to be able to understand Protestantism in terms of bigotry and hatred.They are happily peddling our enemies agenda,And before you pounce can I remind those who have read my previous posts that I am not a Protestant.See if that was said about any other religion in the world you would get slated but Protestant seem to get abuse from everywhere and nothing gets said about it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauba30 1 Posted June 3, 2007 Author Share Posted June 3, 2007 That's maybe where I have the advantage over you.There was no hatred in my upbringing, and there is no room in my life for hatred now.never said there was hatred in your upbringingCertainly none in mine either. Well, apart from the waiter that got my order wrong at dinner Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricardopatrese 0 Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 See if that was said about any other religion in the world you would get slated but Protestant seem to get abuse from everywhere and nothing gets said about itwhat utter paranoid nonsense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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