TBB committee

[Copland bear 7,966]

I would like to speak with the committee, I am not happy with what they have done or achieved, how many on the committee have the guts to defy them and sign it and have it out with them in front of a sheriff? I for one have no problem standing up at a set minute signing it loud and proud, let plod arrest me, means jack shit, they are not the law only impose it, are they prepared to take a chance and say the word billy followed by boys is against the law? Not a fucking chance. See them in court it looks like it is gonna have to be.

[Blue Nosed Babe 20,991]

is it not the Procurator Fiscal who prosecutes ?

The full name of our Prosecution service is the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service

Summary Matters are brought in the name of the Procurator Fiscal for that area

Solemn Matters (Jury Trials) are brought in the name of the Lord Advocate.

[Blue Nosed Babe 20,991]

That isn't against the law though is it?

technically no, BUT the new legislation creates a set of circumstances that would allow the police to arrest folks on it.

VOTE No in 2014 and never vote the SNP into power again.

That is the lesson we have learned here.

I would rather pay for my prescription if I can afford it than being branded a criminal for supporting a football team.

[Blue Nosed Babe 20,991]

I would like to speak with the committee, I am not happy with what they have done or achieved, how many on the committee have the guts to defy them and sign it and have it out with them in front of a sheriff? I for one have no problem standing up at a set minute signing it loud and proud, let plod arrest me, means jack shit, they are not the law only impose it, are they prepared to take a chance and say the word billy followed by boys is against the law? Not a fucking chance. See them in court it looks like it is gonna have to be.

I think certain Sheriffs may sympathise on the Billy BUT not the 3rd line.

[Blue Nosed Babe 20,991]

BNB surely it's down to the crown office rather than the police to interpret the law?

No it is down to the Judiciary to interpret the law and apply it.

The Crown Prosecute what they believe to be crimes where there is enough evidence to substantiate a charge and it is in the public interest to do so.

[Redwhiteandblue 3,330]

technically no, BUT the new legislation creates a set of circumstances that would allow the police to arrest folks on it.

VOTE No in 2014 and never vote the SNP into power again.

That is the lesson we have learned here.

I would rather pay for my prescription if I can afford it than being branded a criminal for supporting a football team.

There is no waty they could make a charge stick by singing a name, not a chance in a million years.

Have you all given up because the police said they wouldn't like it?

[Copland bear 7,966]

Blue noses babe, could you clear up the fact you accepted being told that billy was an offensive word? I hear you are a lawyer? Did you not ask them to show you where in the law billy followed by boys is against the law yet child killers like the ira are Allowed to be glorified. It's just beyond me why you would except such an excuse, can you give me details to whom you have dealt with as this needs to be addressed,

[JCDBigBear 10,865]

Change the Fenian word and sing our song just like Hearts Dundee and Killlie. Fucksake what has our support come to when we are forming committees to sing songs the police approve of

We were trying to find out what the LAW would not deem offensive. You also clearly missed the bit about the SFA and UEFA.

[Blue Nosed Babe 20,991]

There is no waty they could make a charge stick by singing a name, not a chance in a million years.

Have you all given up because the police said they wouldn't like it?

No, I have been finding out how the courts are dealing with the 2012 Act in general.

[Blue Nosed Babe 20,991]

Blue noses babe, could you clear up the fact you accepted being told that billy was an offensive word? I hear you are a lawyer? Did you not ask them to show you where in the law billy followed by boys is against the law yet child killers like the ira are Allowed to be glorified. It's just beyond me why you would except such an excuse, can you give me details to whom you have dealt with as this needs to be addressed,

WRONG! The appeal court has specifically said songs about the IRA also fall foul of the legislation.

I was also not at the meeting due to work commitments.

I have not heard of any trials on TBB yet so this issue of the word "Billy" has not really been argued in the context of the 2012 Act yet.

[Redwhiteandblue 3,330]

I think certain Sheriffs may sympathise on the Billy BUT not the 3rd line.

Sympathise?

It's not illegal. If anyone was arrested on the grounds of singing a name, any PF would at worst send out a fiscal fine.

There is no way they could justify it being in the publics interest to bring someone to court on the grounds of singing a name.

[JCDBigBear 10,865]

Blue noses babe, could you clear up the fact you accepted being told that billy was an offensive word? I hear you are a lawyer? Did you not ask them to show you where in the law billy followed by boys is against the law yet child killers like the ira are Allowed to be glorified. It's just beyond me why you would except such an excuse, can you give me details to whom you have dealt with as this needs to be addressed,

Are you completely stupid or is it just a very good act you put on?

It isn't simply "Billy" it is clearly stated that they deem a song about "The Billy Boys" as being offensive. We don't make the damn laws.

[Blue Nosed Babe 20,991]

Sympathise?

It's not illegal. If anyone was arrested on the grounds of singing a name, any PF would at worst send out a fiscal fine.

There is no way they could justify it being in the publics interest to bring someone to court on the grounds of singing a name.

That is probably why there have been no cases regarding the singing of the first 2 lines then.

Furthermore the only recent case involving a Rangers song was "Follow Follow" in Dundee and the Sheriff there did not find the cops evidence on the accused singing that song credible or reliable and so he ignored it completely, though the accused was convicted for what he admitted to doing.

[Copland bear 7,966]

They don't want the song sung regarding words, so I say fuck them just keep it within the law, rebel scum should do the job, only 2 words but lets get our song back and we are not taking no for an answer. That's what the committee should have told them, remember anyone getting the jail for signing it get your cameras out and video plod, make them very wary as their in candid camera. I say first game of season when centre is took all stand up as one and keep it clean but shout rebel scum when you come to it as loud as you can, let the cunts hear us so they can't say we sung otherwise. The country is fucked up.

[Redwhiteandblue 3,330]

No, I have been finding out how the courts are dealing with the 2012 Act in general.

There doesn't seem to be a general way of dealing with the act from what I have seen so far, mainly because it reads like it has been written by a child.

There was already existing laws that could be used to convict anyone who has been charged under this act.

Is there anyway any of us can apply to get this act removed?

It makes a mockery of our world renowned Scots Law.

[Blue Nosed Babe 20,991]

Are you completely stupid or is it just a very good act you put on?

It isn't simply "Billy" it is clearly stated that they deem a song about "The Billy Boys" as being offensive. We don't make the damn laws.

This is why we need to speak to any MSP who is not SNP. They actually want the 2012 Act to be reviewed and it may be that they would be more than happy to listen to football fans in order to make it a better law.

Hopefully if the SNP are dumped out of power in 2016 then we may be able to have a Scottish Government more sympathetic to the cause.

[Blue Nosed Babe 20,991]

There doesn't seem to be a general way of dealing with the act from what I have seen so far, mainly because it reads like it has been written by a child.

There was already existing laws that could be used to convict anyone who has been charged under this act.

Is there anyway any of us can apply to get this act removed?

It makes a mockery of our world renowned Scots Law.

This is what the PFs, Police and Lawyers said at the time before it was passed but the SNP listen to no one, end of story.

NO, all we can do is start talking to MSPs and campaign like that lot have done.

The more voices that speak out against it, the better chance we have of being heard.

[JCDBigBear 10,865]

Look everybody needs to read the whole statement in context not just pick out individual words to suit your own agendas. People need to realise that times have changed as have the laws. We fans don't make the laws but we have to adhere to them. We put our points across in person at a meeting and it appeared to go pretty well but the authorities discussed the issue and came back with what I posted. As far as things stand, you could argue until you're blue in the face with the PF, Police, whoever but they clearly have no intention of changing their minds. One major point that many are missing is the view from both UEFA and the SFA on the song. If people persist with singing TBB then Rangers could (and will) be hit with sanctions which will become more and more punitive. What do you put first, the interests of Rangers Football Club or your own penchant for singing TBB?

[Redwhiteandblue 3,330]

That is probably why there have been no cases regarding the singing of the first 2 lines then.

Furthermore the only recent case involving a Rangers song was "Follow Follow" in Dundee and the Sheriff there did not find the cops evidence on the accused singing that song credible or reliable and so he ignored it completely, though the accused was convicted for what he admitted to doing.

Which is fair enough. A bog standard BOP with whatever relevant attachment would suffice in every single case I have heard about that has came under this act, and would no doubt lead to a conviction.

I dare say that the police actually agree with that, but have probably been advised to try and get convictions under the 2012 act just so they can justify having the act in the first place and the money being spent on FoCus.

[Bad Robot 21,512]

Look everybody needs to read the whole statement in context not just pick out individual words to suit your own agendas. People need to realise that times have changed as have the laws. We fans don't make the laws but we have to adhere to them. We put our points across in person at a meeting and it appeared to go pretty well but the authorities discussed the issue and came back with what I posted. As far as things stand, you could argue until you're blue in the face with the PF, Police, whoever but they clearly have no intention of changing their minds. One major point that many are missing is the view from both UEFA and the SFA on the song. If people persist with singing TBB then Rangers could (and will) be hit with sanctions which will become more and more punitive. What do you put first, the interests of Rangers Football Club or your own penchant for singing TBB?

Have you got the views of the UEFA and the SFA in writing?

I appreciate any works the committee has done but do you know any fan when singing the Billy Boys think they are singing about Billy Fullertons gang?

The term billy boys has evolved and the people involved must know that or are they choosing not to deal in facts?

[islandblue 366]

Are you completely stupid or is it just a very good act you put on?

It isn't simply "Billy" it is clearly stated that they deem a song about "The Billy Boys" as being offensive. We don't make the damn laws.

It's not a question of anyone being stupid but rather a misunderstanding of the law. The police are saying they would not approve a song which glorifies a criminal. That is a matter for them but as I have already posted their approval is irrelevant. What is relevant is what constitutes a crime and would leave fans open to arrest. If blue nose Bearette is indeed a lawyer she will be aware TBB was the subject of a prosecution at Kilmarnock Sheriff Court about 3 years ago. The accused was convicted as the Sheriff held the word Fenian was a derogatory reference to Catholics and not to a 19th century political society. This was upheld on appeal. The position in law therefore is nobody will be prosecuted for singing TBB if the Fenian word is removed. Many people including the police would like to see the song dead and for too long we have accepted the ludicrous and quite wrong position that the whole song is banned for Rangers fans but nobody else. This is not only wholly wrong in law but a ludicrous and indefensible proposition that we have gullibly swallowed.As a matter of law we require only to remove the Fenian word and need nobodies approval to bring it back. As far as any sanctions from the SFA then we will gladly accept the same punishment applied to Hearts Dundee and Killie(nothing in other words) We need only one thing to bring back our song A Pair of Balls

[Bad Robot 21,512]

It's not a question of anyone being stupid but rather a misunderstanding of the law. The police are saying they would not approve a song which glorifies a criminal. That is a matter for them but as I have already posted their approval is irrelevant. What is relevant is what constitutes a crime and would leave fans open to arrest. If blue nose Bearette is indeed a lawyer she will be aware TBB was the subject of a prosecution at Kilmarnock Sheriff Court about 3 years ago. The accused was convicted as the Sheriff held the word Fenian was a derogatory reference to Catholics and not to a 19th century political society. This was upheld on appeal. The position in law therefore is nobody will be prosecuted for singing TBB if the Fenian word is removed. Many people including the police would like to see the song dead and for too long we have accepted the ludicrous and quite wrong position that the whole song is banned for Rangers fans but nobody else. This is not only wholly wrong in law but a ludicrous and indefensible proposition that we have gullibly swallowed.As a matter of law we require only to remove the Fenian word and need nobodies approval to bring it back. As far as any sanctions from the SFA then we will gladly accept the same punishment applied to Hearts Dundee and Killie(nothing in other words) We need only one thing to bring back our song A Pair of Balls

I agree with everything to say apart from the one word part. We need to remove anything to do with blood aswell, regardless if it's a shit smearing terrorists.

[JCDBigBear 10,865]

Have you got the views of the UEFA and the SFA in writing?

I appreciate any works the committee has done but do you know any fan when singing the Billy Boys think they are singing about Billy Fullertons gang?

The term billy boys has evolved and the people involved must know that or are they choosing not to deal in facts?

UEFA and the SFA make up their own rules. Frankly the song lyrics should revert back to the original "we are the Rangers Boys" then get different words for replacing "up to our knees in fenian blood" and that's it. The only problem then is ensuring that nobody sings TBB lyrics.

[Blue Nosed Babe 20,991]

Blue noses babe, could you clear up the fact you accepted being told that billy was an offensive word? I hear you are a lawyer? Did you not ask them to show you where in the law billy followed by boys is against the law yet child killers like the ira are Allowed to be glorified. It's just beyond me why you would except such an excuse, can you give me details to whom you have dealt with as this needs to be addressed,

Have you not read my answers!

I was not at that meeting numbnuts!

[Blue Nosed Babe 20,991]

Which is fair enough. A bog standard BOP with whatever relevant attachment would suffice in every single case I have heard about that has came under this act, and would no doubt lead to a conviction.

I dare say that the police actually agree with that, but have probably been advised to try and get convictions under the 2012 act just so they can justify having the act in the first place and the money being spent on FoCus.

Lawyers, Police etc said a BOP or Section 38 with the appropriate aggravation would be fine and the 2012 Act was not needed.

SNP listen to NO ONE

They are the Modern Nazis but they try to look soft and cuddly so as to fool the electorate!