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A question about the SDS


1st_Jan_1994
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Guess it could have went in one of the threads but thought it might be worth a thread of its own to debate

If and it's a big if it happens

What happens if down the line fans get bored or think it's not worth it or not working and decide to cancel their dd's and withdraw (which is a good chance it could happen IMO) do we go to the wall again? Go running back to a Charles Green type figure begging (before turning on them first chance we get)? Or is it underwrote by a wealthy backer?

I'll say it again what we need is people who are trustworthy and simply good at their jobs - Rangers men and fan ownership is a no no sadly IMO

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Guess it could have went in one of the threads but thought it might be worth a thread of its own to debate

If and it's a big if it happens

What happens if down the line fans get bored or think it's not worth it or not working and decide to cancel their dd's and withdraw (which is a good chance it could happen IMO) do we go to the wall again? Go running back to a Charles Green type figure begging (before turning on them first chance we get)? Or is it underwrote by a wealthy backer?

I'll say it again what we need is people who are trustworthy and simply good at their jobs - Rangers men and fan ownership is a no no sadly IMO

This has happened in some places (the MyFootballClub ownership of Ebbsfleet is an example), I don't think fan ownership is necessarily workable but fan representation should be achievable and workable. The nature of the representation is the key. Personally I would look to bring soeone in with the best skill set (maybe someone like Gordon Smith) to represent fan interests on the board. Then a one member one vote set up to decide what the fans want to bring to the table.

DDs dropping off would not change the value of the share holding and would only be an issue if the club were 100% fan owned and relied on the income to operate day to day. Any funds not used for buying shares should be ringfenced (other than admin costs) for capital purchases and Rangers should make a request for funding then the membership decides on the case put forward.

What I wouldn't want is the 'blazer chasers' using this scheme as a way to get their feet under the table. We would need, and deserve, someone who is professional and understands their responsibilities to the fans but also their duties as a board member.

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This has happened in some places (the MyFootballClub ownership of Ebbsfleet is an example), I don't think fan ownership is necessarily workable but fan representation should be achievable and workable. The nature of the representation is the key. Personally I would look to bring soeone in with the best skill set (maybe someone like Gordon Smith) to represent fan interests on the board. Then a one member one vote set up to decide what the fans want to bring to the table.

DDs dropping off would not change the value of the share holding and would only be an issue if the club were 100% fan owned and relied on the income to operate day to day. Any funds not used for buying shares should be ringfenced (other than admin costs) for capital purchases and Rangers should make a request for funding then the membership decides on the case put forward.

What I wouldn't want is the 'blazer chasers' using this scheme as a way to get their feet under the table. We would need, and deserve, someone who is professional and understands their responsibilities to the fans but also their duties as a board member.

One member one vote is flawed too as it will become propaganda wars like we seen in the build up to the AGM

Our fans are too easily influenced from the media to rebels and blazer chasers - they successfully got almost everyone to a man at Ibrox turning on the "spivs" with sheer lies

This will become a massive continuation of all these same dirty politics IMO one person one vote it doesn't even matter

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Guess it could have went in one of the threads but thought it might be worth a thread of its own to debate

If and it's a big if it happens

What happens if down the line fans get bored or think it's not worth it or not working and decide to cancel their dd's and withdraw (which is a good chance it could happen IMO) do we go to the wall again? Go running back to a Charles Green type figure begging (before turning on them first chance we get)? Or is it underwrote by a wealthy backer?

I'll say it again what we need is people who are trustworthy and simply good at their jobs - Rangers men and fan ownership is a no no sadly IMO

No we would become captains of industry also of our own boat, if the boat hits the rocks the crew and captain are culpable.

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That's scary tbh

Like everything in life human nature is the deciding factor in success and failure. An ideal world and mix would be 51/49% in favour of some mega wealthy investor, a board to mirror shareholdings would also be ideal, the obvious problem is that everyone at a board meeting votes for the best interests of the club and not themselves or some faction that develops...........unfortunately human nature being what it is the last part is the hardest to achieve and at times impossible.

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I don't see an issue with the fans owning a sizeable percentage and having a presence on the board.

If this scheme ever took off it is my understanding the DD money would be used to purchase shares not to fund the club. So if people stop their DD contributions the number of shares which can be purchased falls.

What I do agree fully with is some sort of membership scheme in which fans can contribute monthly to youth development or coaching. I have said many times conservatively there are tens of thousands of ex-pat and overseas fans who would be interested in such a scheme, without necessarily a view to owning the club.

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I don't see an issue with the fans owning a sizeable percentage and having a presence on the board.

If this scheme ever took off it is my understanding the DD money would be used to purchase shares not to fund the club. So if people stop their DD contributions the number of shares which can be purchased falls.

What I do agree fully with is some sort of membership scheme in which fans can contribute monthly to youth development or coaching. I have said many times conservatively there are tens of thousands of ex-pat and overseas fans who would be interested in such a scheme, without necessarily a view to owning the club.

Who decides what is done with that percentage though? If it's a majority vote to decide then you'll have plenty of infighting, propaganda etc. I just don't see any of this as workable.
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One member one vote is flawed too as it will become propaganda wars like we seen in the build up to the AGM

Our fans are too easily influenced from the media to rebels and blazer chasers - they successfully got almost everyone to a man at Ibrox turning on the "spivs" with sheer lies

This will become a massive continuation of all these same dirty politics IMO one person one vote it doesn't even matter

This is my biggest fear. You only have to see how a huge group got behind Murray Co despite all the evidence showing them as being completely incompetent at best and dangerous at worst.

(tu)

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This is my biggest fear. You only have to see how a huge group got behind Murray Co despite all the evidence showing them as being completely incompetent at best and dangerous at worst.

(tu)

So many just went along with the idea of big bad businessmen versus good brilliant Rangers men, probably without even looking at the facts of the situation.
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Why would it work better than what we have now though? Could arguably be even more disruptive

All it would mean is that the fans who invested in the club have enough of a vote to put forward a representative to be considered for election to the board at the AGM.

The entire shareholding would then vote whether or not to appoint this person.

I don't see what the problem is with that!

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You can bet as soon as this looked like getting off the ground the war for hearts and minds would begin with mini unleashing his attacks from all sides.

He is desperate to get in at any cost with anyone.

The support would be fractured even more and disaster would ensue for the scheme.

I wouldn't go near this without being 100% certain mini and his mob will not be involved.

The man is toxic.

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You can bet as soon as this looked like getting off the ground the war for hearts and minds would begin with mini unleashing his attacks from all sides.

He is desperate to get in at any cost with anyone.

The support would be fractured even more and disaster would ensue for the scheme.

I wouldn't go near this without being 100% certain mini and his mob will not be involved.

The man is toxic.

Exactly

If it's not mini it will be some like minded arsehole from one of the groups

They will eventually get their way at some point down the line but at what cost long term

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One member one vote is flawed too as it will become propaganda wars like we seen in the build up to the AGM

Our fans are too easily influenced from the media to rebels and blazer chasers - they successfully got almost everyone to a man at Ibrox turning on the "spivs" with sheer lies

This will become a massive continuation of all these same dirty politics IMO one person one vote it doesn't even matter

Thats not what I saw at Ibrox.

Supporter representation is far less prone to politics. With someone with the right credentials and understanding of their responsibilities they would bring up supporter concerns and put ideas forward. The rebels and blazer chasers wanted control (and still do). One member one vote would be the best way of getting the majority view rather than the empty vessels. The Board would still have the final say rather than being controlled by the fans. I'm talking a percentagage shareholding to allow for representation not a controlling interest.

There will be a 'continuation' whatever happens the MSM aren't going to change SoS are unlikely too either.

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I disagree the vast majority of Ibrox were holding up those red card spiv out bits of crap

First half it was 70% from what I saw and was much less second half, thats not 'to a man'. The fact is a number had no idea what they were doing, very few around me read them and the few that did didn't hold them up.

Representation is entirely different to ownership and is used to give the board a fans perspective and for them to communicate back. I understand your reservations about ownership but thats not what I am suggesting. The board would still make the ultimate decisions.

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The money coming in would never be relied upon by the Club, so I fail to see why that would happen?

The Club should live within its means, and after fans have built up a holding, they can start to divert the money into specific projects. The Club can't count that money towards revenue or even rely upon it, so why would we ever go to the wall if we're functioning within our means?

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The only way to have any say is to be involved.

That's utopian

The average guy like me will have no control or vote that counts unless I jump on any impending bandwagon of smear when the propaganda machine gets going when it gets round to elected chiefs and policies

The fans that I consider normal, level minded and free thinking are in an absolute minority at the moment and I honestly can't see that changing - too much damage done

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