Redwhiteandblue 3,330 Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 Buying new shares in Arsenal would be pretty meaningless imho. The point of it was the sentimental value of what we had, it is gone and I don't see that changing.Read my post above this one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwhiteandblue 3,330 Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 Mr.King is said to be worth a considerable amount of money. If he wants the Arsenal shares he can go get them. You may be more concerned with drawn out legal proceedings that may never pan out. Personally, I'd rather he just got the shares back.The shares don't belong to King, they don't belong to RIFC. They belong to the oldco and should be returned if it is proven that Whyte had no right to sell them.Maybe this is one of the reasons why King wants to get the oldco back? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
legalbeagle 3,734 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 If Whyte bought the club fraudulently, then everything he sold after that was stolen goods. That means they shares belong to the oldco, no matter who paid what for them. They weren't Whytes to sell, so should still belong to the oldco regardless of who has them or what money they paid for them. If this is the case, they should be returned to the oldco. They belong to the oldco. I don't want King just buying Arsenal shares, I want the shares the oldco owned (the exact shares) returned to their rightful owners.You might want to consider the entirety of what you are saying (and the legality of it) if the shares are rolled back, and everything else sold rolled back, does that mean fans should get refunds on tickets, and shirt sales, and should we refund our sponsors and retail partners? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Why would we even want them? What have Arsenal done for us? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwhiteandblue 3,330 Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 Shares were sold by RFC to the buyer - not Whyte. RFC has a distinct legal personality as a limited company. Any fraud committed by Whyte (if proven) in obtaining his shareholding in RFC wouldn't matter to the sale of the Arsenal shares....I think.Did Whyte not take the money they were sold for? It never went to the oldco. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WATP-FOREVER 5,231 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 If Whyte bought the club fraudulently, then everything he sold after that was stolen goods. That means they shares belong to the oldco, no matter who paid what for them. They weren't Whytes to sell, so should still belong to the oldco regardless of who has them or what money they paid for them.If this is the case, they should be returned to the oldco. They belong to the oldco. I don't want King just buying Arsenal shares, I want the shares the oldco owned (the exact shares) returned to their rightful owners.You are trying hard mate - but if the shares belonged to the oldco, and you're saying they should be returned because whyte bought oldco fraudulently, then they should be returned to oldco, and as they have value and considered an asset – they would go into the pot to pay off oldco creditors.Sad as it is, unless the Russian guy gives them back (to newco) then this part of our history is gone.Deid.We are still the People tho’. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwhiteandblue 3,330 Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 To me the whole oldco/newco stuff means nothing to me now. It was painful at the time, but it's in the past. we can all move on and continue to support the club we love. Fans of other teams will try and wind us up about it, but if it doesn't bother us then they're wasting their time. I also think there's a bit of harking to the past that we somehow own arsenal, and are financially superior to them. Financially we are now minnows compared to arsenal, and owning a token few shares in them worth few hundred k isn't fooling anyone. It's a bit embarrassing really.Wit? Sorry bud, but that post is reeking. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlegKuznetsov 10,816 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 No. However, we could just try to buy them back outright.Alisher Usmanov bought the shares to to increase his stake in Arsenal, so he won't be selling them back outright.We may get to buy a token one or two back off him, or perhaps, another which would be less ideal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bombaybadboy08 15,660 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 To me the whole oldco/newco stuff means nothing to me now. It was painful at the time, but it's in the past. we can all move on and continue to support the club we love. Fans of other teams will try and wind us up about it, but if it doesn't bother us then they're wasting their time.To me banging on about things like this contradicts the assertion that none of our financial trouble matters. Either business related matters are related to the club or they aren't, we can't have it both ways.I also think there's a bit of harking to the past that we somehow own arsenal, and are financially superior to them. Financially we are now minnows compared to arsenal, and owning a token few shares in them worth few hundred k isn't fooling anyone. It's a bit embarrassing really. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwhiteandblue 3,330 Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 You might want to consider the entirety of what you are saying (and the legality of it) if the shares are rolled back, and everything else sold rolled back, does that mean fans should get refunds on tickets, and shirt sales, and should we refund our sponsors and retail partners?Whyte sold and pocketed those shares. They weren't his to sell. They belonged to the oldco and it's shareholders. I don't remember whyte selling sponsors or retail partners. And yes, Whyte sold our season tickets when they didn't belong to him and is now looking at prison for doing it if found guilty. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwhiteandblue 3,330 Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 Why would we even want them? What have Arsenal done for us?You do know what those shares represented don't you? It was a thank you fir helping Arsenal get back on their feet when they were staring at the abyss. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwhiteandblue 3,330 Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 You are trying hard mate - but if the shares belonged to the oldco, and you're saying they should be returned because whyte bought oldco fraudulently, then they should be returned to oldco, and as they have value and considered an asset they would go into the pot to pay off oldco creditors.Sad as it is, unless the Russian guy gives them back (to newco) then this part of our history is gone.Deid.We are still the People tho.King is trying to buy the oldco back though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwhiteandblue 3,330 Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 Alisher Usmanov bought the shares to to increase his stake in Arsenal, so he won't be selling them back outright.We may get to buy a token one or two back off him, or perhaps, another which would be less ideal.If they are stolen property, then he doesn't need to sell them. The polis will take them off him and he will need to chase whyte for reimbursement. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WATP-FOREVER 5,231 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 King is trying to buy the oldco back though.If he does then that may be a different story, and could well work out - but he hasn't yet.Also, surely the historical interest would be lost. In the early 1900's we helped Arsenal because they were on the verge of bankruptcy - that is not the case either now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwhiteandblue 3,330 Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 If he does then that may be a different story, and could well work out - but he hasn't yet.Also, surely the historical interest would be lost. In the early 1900's we helped Arsenal because they were on the verge of bankruptcy - that is not the case either now.I'm not saying it is, but it was something that stood proudly on the walls inside Ibrox. I don't want just any Arsenal shares, they would be meaningless. I want the exact shares that were sold. Those shares should be on paper with a serial number so we should be able to get the ones that were sold given back to the oldco. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 You do know what those shares represented don't you?It was a thank you fir helping Arsenal get back on their feet when they were staring at the abyss.My point exactly. We helped them? Where were they when we were staring at the abyss? Fuck Arsenal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 So many fans, especially the younger fans, all want to say "Rangers and chelsea have a really good relationship" and "Rangers and arsenal have a special relationship" and "Rangers and man city are close" etc. Folk are so desperate for us to have a taig like "pyoor speshul relashunship" with bigger Clubs, youd think some folk dont realize how big a Club we are, we dont need anyone else. Fuck all these other clubs if you ask me.At least Linfield, who are far from a rich club, reached out to offer help when we we're being kicked. And imo apart from them any other Club can fuck off Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WATP-FOREVER 5,231 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 My point exactly. We helped them? Where were they when we were staring at the abyss? Fuck Arsenal.Arsenals situation was clear cut - they needed money. Our situation was not clear cut, we had the rampant timmigrants from sars and bbc creating their republican propaganda. Slightly different really - if there were no false accusations and claims of illegal trading, claiming titles and holding back money from hmrc, then maybe they and others would have helped - but the timmigrant infested media made out that we were poisonous.Payback time is coming – and coming soon – and we don’t really need arsenal shares to enjoy that mate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky True Legend 2,682 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 I'm not saying it is, but it was something that stood proudly on the walls inside Ibrox. I don't want just any Arsenal shares, they would be meaningless. I want the exact shares that were sold. Those shares should be on paper with a serial number so we should be able to get the ones that were sold given back to the oldco.Probably destroyed by now. With computerisation, share certificates are an anachronism. But go on - keep pissing into the wind if it makes you happy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMB 14,167 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Why would we even want them? What have Arsenal done for us?Zeladinho. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermopylae 15,287 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Err no, that won't happen, this subject has been done to death nearly as much as TBB threads.I have no idea if it's true or not but surely whoever bought anything from whyte was in receipt of stolen goods? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermopylae 15,287 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Why would we even want them? What have Arsenal done for us?It did cross my mind that Wenger let us have one of their best young talents after a word in his ear from the board room ... I'm sure anyone at Arsenal with the club at heart would have been brought up with the memories of the Struth Chapman games very much to the fore and see these shares as very much a part of both our histories Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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