Barry Ferguson on Smith and Rangers and spending

[Leeds_Bear 8,145]

6 minutes ago, The Godfather said:

It's still about but nobody takes note of it because there are more holes in it than a golf course.

It was a daft thing to bring in anyway because it didn't stop the big clubs spending one bit...all it did was make them work harder to get around it.

With you now, yeah there are loads of loopholes but a lot of them are through sponsorship deals are they not? Something we're not in complete control of. I also think the new UEFA president has said they're going to crack down more. 

Regardless though we have seen clubs punished; Barca, Real, City have all been punished and do you think if we breached any of those rules we'd ever hear the end of it or be afforded protection by the SFA? Fat chance. I'd rather us play by the rules than risk bringing penalties on the club or prevent us from getting into Europe - which is by far our biggest cash cow. 

[The Godfather 72,647]

2 minutes ago, Leeds_Bear said:

With you now, yeah there are loads of loopholes but a lot of them are through sponsorship deals are they not? Something we're not in complete control of. I also think the new UEFA president has said they're going to crack down more. 

Regardless though we have seen clubs punished; Barca, Real, City have all been punished and do you think if we breached any of those rules we'd ever hear the end of it or be afforded protection by the SFA? Fat chance. I'd rather us play by the rules than risk bringing penalties on the club or prevent us from getting into Europe - which is by far our biggest cash cow. 

King and co not investing is not because of FFP, let's not try to make that some sort of reason. There are loads of ways around it and the punishments those teams have never kicked them out of Europe or lost them points. Most of the penalties that were dished out were watered down after appeals.

We are not going to get near European football ( Groups,where you can make money) without investment and without investment we cant make that money. So whichever way you look at it we need money and fast.
 

[Leeds_Bear 8,145]

2 minutes ago, The Godfather said:

King and co not investing is not because of FFP, let's not try to make that some sort of reason. There are loads of ways around it and the punishments those teams have never kicked them out of Europe or lost them points. Most of the penalties that were dished out were watered down after appeals.

We are not going to get near European football ( Groups,where you can make money) without investment and without investment we cant make that money. So whichever way you look at it we need money and fast.
 

They are investing though, just not at levels which mean we live beyond our means or break FFP and granted, currently, not to the levels Kings ill advised soundbites said we would.

Regardless though, FFP rules are there whether you think we can skirt them or not, I'd rather our club was run properly and not dragged through courts or had any air of financial uncertainty again. It's far more damaging in the long run. I'd put my house on if we broke one of these rules our club would be made an example of, there are too many of our enemies in too many high places. Why give them the rope to hang us with?

I'm in complete agreement with you we need money to guarantee European football, especially considering we'll be entering any European football at the first round of qualifiers. Perhaps that's one thing we're waiting for, secure European football, attract a high calibre of player for similar money. Dembele vs. Dodoo a prime example of that. 

[The Godfather 72,647]

6 minutes ago, Leeds_Bear said:

They are investing though, just not at levels which mean we live beyond our means or break FFP and granted, currently, not to the levels Kings ill advised soundbites said we would.

Regardless though, FFP rules are there whether you think we can skirt them or not, I'd rather our club was run properly and not dragged through courts or had any air of financial uncertainty again. It's far more damaging in the long run. I'd put my house on if we broke one of these rules our club would be made an example of, there are too many of our enemies in too many high places. Why give them the rope to hang us with?

I'm in complete agreement with you we need money to guarantee European football, especially considering we'll be entering any European football at the first round of qualifiers. Perhaps that's one thing we're waiting for, secure European football, attract a high calibre of player for similar money. Dembele vs. Dodoo a prime example of that. 

We can't get European football with the levels of investment we are seeing just now, that's just not going to happen. It's getting harder every year getting through to the groups and with the squad we have (and the players we look to bring in) it's not exactly looking good....not to mention Warburton's record in the big games.

Finishing second isn't going to be good enough next season and unless we spend £10 million or more on players we wont be winning any title. So the levels of investment need to drastically improve if we are to get to the levels you are talking about.

[Hutton2008 646]

4 hours ago, Straight-Edge-Loyal said:

But a share issue is our only way to do that res 11 was vital.

Correct. Either mccoist was preventing his shares from being diluted or he knows something about king and the board. Something doesn't fit. I thought res11 was a shoe in. More money, more money men involved, easdales cast further aside...

[Leeds_Bear 8,145]

But we don't know what level of player we'd bring in if european football was on the table because Warburton and the board have yet to be in that position, so can't agree with you there. 

And I don't disagree with you the club needs investment and fast - my points are around the reasons why we are in a more difficult position than most clubs across Europe.

The discussion seems to have shifted slightly though. You originally said FFP can be ignored - I'm saying that, along with retail and sponsorship deals is why our club is hamstrung. 

I think everyone is in agreement the club needs money, but we need to be realistic and understand the almost impossible position we are in currently. It's short term pain for long term gain.

@The Godfather - forgot to quote you!

[Leeds_Bear 8,145]

3 minutes ago, Hutton2008 said:

Correct. Either mccoist was preventing his shares from being diluted or he knows something about king and the board. Something doesn't fit. I thought res11 was a shoe in. More money, more money men involved, easdales cast further aside...

My honest opinion is Mccoist is a selfish person and was annoyed with the board for cancelling his gardening leave/making it public. 

[The Godfather 72,647]

It's not short term though is it? The tims are bursting ahead banking 20 odd million from the CL groups and getting ludicrous offers for their jumped up players.

We continue with this short term pain as you put it then the long term goal just get's even harder to achieve. We can't continue penny pinching and bringing in the level of players we have been doing because all that get's you is sitting 20 odd points behind them and getting scudded in OF games...Rangers fans will no put up with that and I for one hope if this does continue and that liar continues his lack of investment through to next season that he is chased out our club.

We don't have 2/3 years to spare, we need to be challenging (not sitting 20 points behind) next season and for that to happen we need big money invested in this squad.

We wont get near them next season if nothing changes and we continue down this path. Money is the only thing that is going to improve this situation and without that there will be no European football and no silverware.

 

[Straight-Edge-Loyal 6,696]

9 minutes ago, Hutton2008 said:

Correct. Either mccoist was preventing his shares from being diluted or he knows something about king and the board. Something doesn't fit. I thought res11 was a shoe in. More money, more money men involved, easdales cast further aside...

What on earth are you talking about there is tonnes of ways for money to get added to us King has conned the vast majority of our support into giving him a place on board.

Get the cunt and Paul Murray to absolute fuck and never let them darken our doors again.

[Leeds_Bear 8,145]

3 minutes ago, The Godfather said:

It's not short term though is it? The tims are bursting ahead banking 20 odd million from the CL groups and getting ludicrous offers for their jumped up players.

We continue with this short term pain as you put it then the long term goal just get's even harder to achieve. We can't continue penny pinching and bringing in the level of players we have been doing because all that get's you is sitting 20 odd points behind them and getting scudded in OF games...Rangers fans will no put up with that and I for one hope if this does continue and that liar continues his lack of investment through to next season that he is chased out our club.

We don't have 2/3 years to spare, we need to be challenging (not sitting 20 points behind) next season and for that to happen we need big money invested in this squad.

We wont get near them next season if nothing changes and we continue down this path. Money is the only thing that is going to improve this situation and without that there will be no European football and no silverware.

 

We are just going round in circles here. You keep talking about the need for investment and I've said I agree with you - we need further investment as quickly as possible.

I'm saying we can only do so much without putting the club in jeopardy. The short term pain isn't a choice, it's something we will have to deal with. 

Would be genuinely interesting to know how you would bring money into the club as things currently stand? I can't see many of any substance - but I'm by no means a financial expert!

[The Godfather 72,647]

Just now, Leeds_Bear said:

We are just going round in circles here. You keep talking about the need for investment and I've said I agree with you - we need further investment as quickly as possible.

I'm saying we can only do so much without putting the club in jeopardy. The short term pain isn't a choice, it's something we will have to deal with. 

Would be genuinely interesting to know how you would bring money into the club as things currently stand? I can't see many of any substance - but I'm by no means a financial expert!

That's not our job though is it? We have a board full of people who are paid and paid well to do these sorts of things. I have no experience in football boardroom financial situations and I suspect neither do you so you can't say it's hard or easy.

What we do know is the taigs are pulling away and we are currently way behind with a squad that needs vast upgrading. Yes we agree we need investment but you are saying that it needs to take time and I am saying it's needed right now...not next year or the year after. The longer we wait, the bigger the gap is going to be on and off the park.

We can't afford to see if we get Europe or if we get to the group stages...we need to spend just now. We have over 35,000 ST holders so it's not like we don't have money there coming in. What we need is our owner to put some of his promises into action..so far it's just been bullshit and bluster.

Yes we are going round in circles because you think we have time to sort all of this out while I think it needs to happen right now.

[Jack The Flipper 5,936]

If the the front doors to Ibrox were squeaky King would hunt about for a used tin of sardines and use that oil to lube the hinges.

By the way Barry, King said that load of shite about spending 30m so he could get control of the club. I'll say it for you - although you're probably not smart enough to join the dots. 

[Thermopylae 15,287]

Time and again we seem to get this crap about we got into problems before because we spent money we didn't have when it was HMRC's decision to make us a test case with the EBTs that was the problem ... the truth is they were entirely legal at the time we used them indeed by the time Walter came back (and continued to win leagues) the debt was very manageable indeed

[Smile 26,622]

13 minutes ago, Leeds_Bear said:

We are just going round in circles here. You keep talking about the need for investment and I've said I agree with you - we need further investment as quickly as possible.

I'm saying we can only do so much without putting the club in jeopardy. The short term pain isn't a choice, it's something we will have to deal with. 

Would be genuinely interesting to know how you would bring money into the club as things currently stand? I can't see many of any substance - but I'm by no means a financial expert!

 

 

How has one woman in Ann Budge managed to get Hearts a club with less money and less influence turned around so quickly, she even managed to get Elected onto the spfl board.

That tells us something wrong or we dont have the right men in.

[Thermopylae 15,287]

5 minutes ago, Smile said:

How has one woman in Ann Budge managed to get Hearts a club with less money and less influence turned around so quickly, she even managed to get Elected onto the spfl board.

That tells us something wrong or we dont have the right men in.

It's a bad day when hearts show us the way 

[Smile 26,622]

2 minutes ago, Thermopylae said:

It's a bad day when hearts show us the way 

It is we should with our support be influencing Scottish football in a big way it's a disgrace we are not when we keep other clubs viable.

[Thermopylae 15,287]

6 minutes ago, Smile said:

It is we should with our support be influencing Scottish football in a big way it's a disgrace we are not when we keep other clubs viable.

I think it does make a difference that King isn't physically here ... whoever is at the top at Ibrox shouldn't be able to switch off fully from what's going on and it's just too easy to do that when you are so far away 

[Smile 26,622]

Just now, Thermopylae said:

I think it does make a difference that King isn't physically here ... whoever is at te top at Ibrox shouldn't be able t switch off fully from what's going on and it's just too easy to do that when you are so far away 

I said that when he first took over I think I made a thread calling him an Absentee Landlord someone who only want's you when the money rolling in but you can't find when repairs/investments  needing to be done.

[Thermopylae 15,287]

4 minutes ago, Smile said:

I said that when he first took over I think I made a thread calling him an Absentee Landlord someone who only want's you when the money rolling in but you can't find when repairs/investments  needing to be done.

It's perhaps even just being noised up by passing tims on a daily basis or having to look at liewells smirk every time we play them ... that's what rivalry is really all about 

[Leeds_Bear 8,145]

15 minutes ago, The Godfather said:

That's not our job though is it? We have a board full of people who are paid and paid well to do these sorts of things. I have no experience in football boardroom financial situations and I suspect neither do you so you can't say it's hard or easy.

What we do know is the taigs are pulling away and we are currently way behind with a squad that needs vast upgrading. Yes we agree we need investment but you are saying that it needs to take time and I am saying it's needed right now...not next year or the year after. The longer we wait, the bigger the gap is going to be on and off the park.

We can't afford to see if we get Europe or if we get to the group stages...we need to spend just now. We have over 35,000 ST holders so it's not like we don't have money there coming in. What we need is our owner to put some of his promises into action..so far it's just been bullshit and bluster.

Yes we are going round in circles because you think we have time to sort all of this out while I think it needs to happen right now.

No need to suspect mate, I've just told you I'm not an expert. However, I am allowed to make an assessment on what information I have in front of me though, just as you are. Otherwise by that reasoning you've completely invalidated everything you've just said. 

You're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say I think we've got time to sort this out because we need to get back to winning league titles. However, I think I'm being realistic when I say it will take time to sort out - which will naturally have a negative impact on us in the short term but in the long run mean the club has stronger foundations.  

You're demanding investment is made instantly and throwing criticism at the board for not making instant investments but you're not actually backing up your criticism with any reasoning, I was just interested to know where you feel the board could be performing better in terms of investment? I'm not saying they can't improve, it's just from what I've read there doesn't seem to be many other options. 

I'm frustrated like you that the tims are pulling ahead at a rate of knots and there doesn't seem to be any immediate solution to that - but the club is heading in the right direction for the first time in 5 or 6 years. We want everything now, and I include myself in that, but I think we need to be more realistic on what is truly achievable in the short term. If we can get European football on the table next season, then we will likely see a different level of investment and calibre of player coming through the door. 

 

[Leeds_Bear 8,145]

32 minutes ago, Smile said:

How has one woman in Ann Budge managed to get Hearts a club with less money and less influence turned around so quickly, she even managed to get Elected onto the spfl board.

That tells us something wrong or we dont have the right men in.

Agree about the elected point, it's a disgrace we don't have a board member on the SPFL board. A bit of perspective though, remember it took Ann two times of trying and the level of hate on that board for our club far outweighs that of Hearts. None the less - we should have someone at that table. 

Hearts is a smaller ship to turn and therefore recovery time is quicker, also Hearts are in control of nearly aspect of their operation, the same can't be said about us. 

 

[Smile 26,622]

12 minutes ago, Leeds_Bear said:

Agree about the elected point, it's a disgrace we don't have a board member on the SPFL board. A bit of perspective though, remember it took Ann two times of trying and the level of hate on that board for our club far outweighs that of Hearts. None the less - we should have someone at that table. 

Hearts is a smaller ship to turn and therefore recovery time is quicker, also Hearts are in control of nearly aspect of their operation, the same can't be said about us. 

 

 

As i said you looked for someone to compare it too, you have been given it and for one Woman she's managing to make our board look weak and feeble by comparison and now has a voice in the spfl.

[K.A.I 36,183]

Ferguson is a back tracking wee fanny. 

I praised him to the hilt last month for his article about us needing to spend now the narrative is changing again 

the reason for this I don't know but now it seems if we do invest we are all of a sudden going burst or something 

obviously the term spending wisely is an alien concept to him 

Soneone said the other day there's an orchestrated campaign to oust King .. no chance .. people are now going to clamp up to keep him there and give Celtic ten in a row and use scare tactics about going bust to justify 

they all make me sick 

[Leeds_Bear 8,145]

5 minutes ago, Smile said:

As i said you looked for someone to compare it too, you have been given it and for one Woman she's managing to make our board look weak and feeble by comparison and now has a voice in the spfl.

Sorry don't think I said that mate. I said I was genuinely interested to know how we would bring money into the club as things currently stand, not for a comparison at another club as the situation at our club is vastly different to the majority of clubs in Europe. Hard to compare directly. 

There is no denying Ann Budge has performed tremendously at Hearts and I agree us not having a voice in the SPFL is an issue which needs sorting. 

[siddiqi_drinker 14,635]

5 hours ago, danger ranger said:

Why even listen to anyone never mind this dullard, it's going to take serious money to get us back to the top, King just reminded everyone that Rangers assets are worth £50 million and they as individuals can't under write £20 million backed by ST money!.

 We also need the right man to spend the money as it's not going to happen with Warburton in charge.

 

Another wee roaster who could have 'invested' some of the millions he earned out of the club and who, like his brother, appears happy collecting their 20 pieces of silver from the DR.