Frankie 505 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 great post danny. It's not really. It contradicts itself suggesting 'loyalty and commitment should be rewarded' then goes onto complain when it is... Season ticket holders and travel club members should get the first chance of tickets to these matches. That might not seem fair to those of us who can't manage to many games but it's the best way of rewarding those of us who do follow the team as often as possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briton 394 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 The free tickets to the travelling fans (who have been superb) is a nice gesture and one that no other club would do/has done. Those that have travelled to the other away games should get precedence over those that haven't, LOYALTY should be rewarded. Yes it should. But this is not the way imo. How else would you reward those loyal fans though? I'd fully understand if I was unable to get a ticket because those who attended earlier rounds got priority. I think that's fair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 505 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 How else would you reward those loyal fans though? I'd fully understand if I was unable to get a ticket because those who attended earlier rounds got priority. I think that's fair. Exactly. I can't afford to go to many european away games but I'd love to go to Portugal. However, if someone like Manticore is before me in the queue because of his presence at other such games, then I have no quibble with that system. It may not be perfect but it's the best way of rewarding loyalty and commitment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 9 Posted March 24, 2008 Author Share Posted March 24, 2008 The free tickets to the travelling fans (who have been superb) is a nice gesture and one that no other club would do/has done. Those that have travelled to the other away games should get precedence over those that haven't, LOYALTY should be rewarded. Yes it should. But this is not the way imo. How else would you reward those loyal fans though? I'd fully understand if I was unable to get a ticket because those who attended earlier rounds got priority. I think that's fair. There are many ways to reward fans without punishing others. I'm not a business man so I don't have any ideas. And you would fully understand? Good for you old bean. Plenty others don't though - and are missing out because they're 'lesser fans'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TunnyLoyal 1,136 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 I may be misunderstanding it badly, and I will retract if so, but... Is it just me or is the ticket free deal a disgraceful display of elitism on at least 2 fronts? 1: It's a club, or chairman, showing off to the rest of the world by buying all the tickets for a high profile European game. 'Look at us, we can buy all the tickets, we're so cool'. Just because it's unprecedented doesn't make it a good thing. 2: More importantly, this is preventing any bluenose who hasn't been away in Europe before from going to this game. Only those who have shown 'loyalty' are allowed to go. Exactly who the f*ck does the club think it is to go around deciding who is 'allowed' to go? That's actually quite despicable. You can reward your most committed fans if you so wish, but this is punishing the rest. There is also the crucial point that while the away leg is free, the home leg has been vastly increased in price, meaning that rather than rewarding fans, they're being punished as a whole because this overall venture is making the club PROFIT, not costing them anything. I may have misconstrued the whole thing, but if I'm right, this has left a sour taste in my mouth. How can Murray keep the fans happy if you dont appreciate an offer like that! its a excellent gesture from him. your point about the fans not being able to go i feel is wrong as i doubt u would have got a ticket for this game anyway unless u had 2 or 3 travel club points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briton 394 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 The free tickets to the travelling fans (who have been superb) is a nice gesture and one that no other club would do/has done. Those that have travelled to the other away games should get precedence over those that haven't, LOYALTY should be rewarded. Yes it should. But this is not the way imo. How else would you reward those loyal fans though? I'd fully understand if I was unable to get a ticket because those who attended earlier rounds got priority. I think that's fair. There are many ways to reward fans without punishing others. I'm not a business man so I don't have any ideas. And you would fully understand? Good for you old bean. Plenty others don't though - and are missing out because they're 'lesser fans'. I don't think of it in terms of being a 'lesser fan' than say, Manticore, but the fact is he and others have followed Rangers all over Europe in the earlier rounds and I think giving them priority when it comes to allocating tickets is a fair reward for that. You don't have to be a businessman to have ideas but I can't come up with a fairer system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoltonLoyal 2 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 I went to Barcelona, without a ticket, couldn't get one and watched it in a bar. I'd be loath to do that again as it was pretty anticlimactic. I don't hold a season ticket as i couldn't make even half the games due to work commitments, so i'd have had no chance of getting a ticket again even if the club hadn't bought them up. I feel it's right and proper to allocate the tickets to the lads who go to all the Euro games, the only thing i'd agree with, which someone mentioned on another thread. Is that most of the guys who go to away games can easily afford the tickets anyway, whereas to some bears it might be a once in a lifetime thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 505 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 There are many ways to reward fans without punishing others. I'm not a business man so I don't have any ideas. And you would fully understand? Good for you old bean. Plenty others don't though - and are missing out because they're 'lesser fans'. Nobody is being punished though! We're following the same process as we do for every game and this process is as fair as it can be. Especially in terms of away European games where safety and security is so vital. It's not about 'lesser' fans. It's about rewarding loyalty and commitment which you say isn't a problem. Make up your mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 505 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 I feel it's right and proper to allocate the tickets to the lads who go to all the Euro games, the only thing i'd agree with, which someone mentioned on another thread. Is that most of the guys who go to away games can easily afford the tickets anyway, whereas to some bears it might be a once in a lifetime thing. The financial issue is the one grey area where such a 'loyalty points' system can fall down. Unfortunately, I don't think there is a better way to administrate 'key games' and believe me more intelligent people than me have looked at it.... Quite simply I have no gripe with those who have attended more games than me getting first chance of key game tickets. I'm surprised anyone else would to be honest. This may not be ideal or completely fair but c'est la vie. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmarvloyal 0 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 I may be misunderstanding it badly, and I will retract if so, but... Is it just me or is the ticket free deal a disgraceful display of elitism on at least 2 fronts? 1: It's a club, or chairman, showing off to the rest of the world by buying all the tickets for a high profile European game. 'Look at us, we can buy all the tickets, we're so cool'. Just because it's unprecedented doesn't make it a good thing. 2: More importantly, this is preventing any bluenose who hasn't been away in Europe before from going to this game. Only those who have shown 'loyalty' are allowed to go. Exactly who the f*ck does the club think it is to go around deciding who is 'allowed' to go? That's actually quite despicable. You can reward your most committed fans if you so wish, but this is punishing the rest. There is also the crucial point that while the away leg is free, the home leg has been vastly increased in price, meaning that rather than rewarding fans, they're being punished as a whole because this overall venture is making the club PROFIT, not costing them anything. I may have misconstrued the whole thing, but if I'm right, this has left a sour taste in my mouth. I don't agree with your points 1 and 2, but the point after that about the increase in price, and the fact that it is the home supporters that are paying for the away supporters tickets is the relevant one. Not only are the home fans paying for the away ones, they are also lining Murrays pockets with an extra £350,000 after he has paid the £50,000 for the away tickets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 505 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Not only are the home fans paying for the away ones, they are also lining Murrays pockets with an extra £350,000 after he has paid the £50,000 for the away tickets. As much as I don't agree with the excessive price hike, Murray's pockets will not be lined. The cash goes to the club. Moreover, the reduction/freeze of season tickets means the club (or Murray by your logic) will 'lose' around £750K come renewal time. I share your cynicism regarding this 'free' ticket claim but let's keep a balance perspective on any criticism. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briton 394 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Not only are the home fans paying for the away ones, they are also lining Murrays pockets with an extra £350,000 after he has paid the £50,000 for the away tickets. So you know that the £350,000 will go to Murray and not to the club? Edit: Frankie...will you stop doing that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmarvloyal 0 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Not only are the home fans paying for the away ones, they are also lining Murrays pockets with an extra £350,000 after he has paid the £50,000 for the away tickets. So you know that the £350,000 will go to Murray and not to the club? Edit: Frankie...will you stop doing that! Either to Murray or to help pay off debt that he created. It certainly will not go into the transfer kitty if that is what you are insinuating. Smith will be lucky to get the £9m we got for Hutton to spend in the summer despite all the moonbeams flying around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 505 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Not only are the home fans paying for the away ones, they are also lining Murrays pockets with an extra £350,000 after he has paid the £50,000 for the away tickets. So you know that the £350,000 will go to Murray and not to the club? Edit: Frankie...will you stop doing that! Great minds... Well, maybe not great... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmarvloyal 0 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Not only are the home fans paying for the away ones, they are also lining Murrays pockets with an extra £350,000 after he has paid the £50,000 for the away tickets. As much as I don't agree with the excessive price hike, Murray's pockets will not be lined. The cash goes to the club. Moreover, the reduction/freeze of season tickets means the club (or Murray by your logic) will 'lose' around £750K come renewal time. I share your cynicism regarding this 'free' ticket claim but let's keep a balance perspective on any criticism. The cash goes to the club and into Murrays pockets by way of dividend ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 505 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Either to Murray or to help pay off debt that he created. It certainly will not go into the transfer kitty if that is what you are insinuating. Smith will be lucky to get the £9m we got for Hutton to spend in the summer despite all the moonbeams flying around. The part about the debt is valid of course but I think the more money the club makes, the better for the future of it overall - debt, transfer funds etc... Obviously that should not be at the expense of excessive hikes. It will be very interesting to see how many tickets are sold for the home leg actually. Demand will be there but perhaps not enough to outstrip supply. As for transfer budgets, well £10million seems fair enough given our club profit is dependent on CL participation and huge fees like the Hutton transfer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 505 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 The cash goes to the club and into Murrays pockets by way of dividend ;-) We do not have share dividends - unlike Celtic... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluepeter9 5,167 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 If SDM had NOT bought the tickets, increased season tickets by say 3% (inflation) and increased the Qtr fnal ticket then would anyone have cared or noticed. Seems the man is dammed if he does and dammed if he doesnt by a certain section of support. All this critisism on a few positive gestures is (IMHO) unwarranted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmarvloyal 0 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 The cash goes to the club and into Murrays pockets by way of dividend ;-) We do not have share dividends - unlike Celtic... No, but we have director dividends like any other company ;-) Thought you would have known that, Frankie. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 505 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 No, but we have director dividends like any other company ;-) Thought you would have known that, Frankie. I'm not sure we do actually... Directors are just like any other shareholder - some of whom who don't actually have very many shares - they can sell their shares for profit/loss but they don't receive dividends. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmarvloyal 0 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 If SDM had NOT bought the tickets, increased season tickets by say 3% (inflation) and increased the Qtr fnal ticket then would anyone have cared or noticed. Seems the man is dammed if he does and dammed if he doesnt by a certain section of support. All this critisism on a few positive gestures is (IMHO) unwarranted. I was raging at the £9 price hike for the Q/F. If you want to reward ALL fans (As stated in the announcement) then why not make the game a freebie? Or at least make it CHEAPER than other rounds? Or at least not INCREASE the price? Now we have seen the reason for increasing the home leg tickets - to offset the cost of buying all the away tickets and to line his own pockets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmarvloyal 0 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 No, but we have director dividends like any other company ;-) Thought you would have known that, Frankie. I'm not sure we do actually... Directors are just like any other shareholder - some of whom who don't actually have very many shares - they can sell their shares for profit/loss but they don't receive dividends. Frankie.. forget shares. Shares don't come into these kind of dividends. Dividends in this case are payments used to lessen the amount of tax paid. All Directors usually take a very minimal wage from the business and take a huge dividend at year end which is cheaper on tax. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 505 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 If SDM had NOT bought the tickets, increased season tickets by say 3% (inflation) and increased the Qtr fnal ticket then would anyone have cared or noticed. Seems the man is dammed if he does and dammed if he doesnt by a certain section of support. All this critisism on a few positive gestures is (IMHO) unwarranted. People would have cared actually. I'll say it again - some of this announcement (exaggerated by the club too much IMO) is good news but the alleged subsidised 'free' away tickets was always going to attract fair debate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 505 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 No, but we have director dividends like any other company ;-) Thought you would have known that, Frankie. I'm not sure we do actually... Directors are just like any other shareholder - some of whom who don't actually have very many shares - they can sell their shares for profit/loss but they don't receive dividends. Frankie.. forget shares. Shares don't come into these kind of dividends. Dividends in this case are payments used to lessen the amount of tax paid. All Directors usually take a very minimal wage from the business and take a huge dividend at year end which is cheaper on tax. IIRC, none of our directors take a wage from the club in the manner you describe - including Murray. Obviously guys like Martin Bain and Donald McIntyre who work for Rangers FC do but others such as Dave King and Murray don't. I may be wrong so I'll defer to your better financial knowledge - I'm no expert in that field! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmarvloyal 0 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 No, but we have director dividends like any other company ;-) Thought you would have known that, Frankie. I'm not sure we do actually... Directors are just like any other shareholder - some of whom who don't actually have very many shares - they can sell their shares for profit/loss but they don't receive dividends. Frankie.. forget shares. Shares don't come into these kind of dividends. Dividends in this case are payments used to lessen the amount of tax paid. All Directors usually take a very minimal wage from the business and take a huge dividend at year end which is cheaper on tax. IIRC, none of our directors take a wage from the club in the manner you describe - including Murray. Obviously guys like Martin Bain and Donald McIntyre who work for Rangers FC do but others such as Dave King and Murray don't. I may be wrong so I'll defer to your better financial knowledge - I'm no expert in that field! Well if the directors all work for nothing then that's amazing. If they all put in money to the club and not expect anything back then that is philanthropy at its best. I think you'll find that all the Directors will take a dividend at year end even if they don't take a "wage" as we know it to be out during the year. Not only would it be their "salary" per se but it would reduce the tax cost payable by the club if we were ever to make a profit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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