About the announcement

[ScotBear 144]

What issues though, Frankie, do fans feel particularly aggrieved about ?

Billy Boys ? Are they expecting Martin Bain to stand in front of the media and commit 'PR suicide' by trying to defend the use of the word 'f*nian' in a song, a defence that may have some validity but a defence that the public as a whole have no time for.

What else ? Because I really don't see it. I'm a fan and season ticket holder, I don't feel that I need to be defended. Where is this 'poor soul' syndrome coming from ?!

the lies that get spouted in newspapers on a regular basis, the highlighting and magnification of anything out of line from us - and the complete lack of any reporting of wrong doing from our city neighbours, no mention of the frequent pro-ira nonsense heard clearly at the gretna game amongst others.

what we want is a level playing field, do you honestly believe that is what we have?

I agree that the IRA stuff from Celtic fans should be highlighted more often. It is touched upon now and then, as were the Gazza chants recently, but not enough.

With regards to the rest though, it's just the same stuff that Celtic fans complain about. They talk about the 'laptop' loyal in the media, believe the SFA is full of bluenoses, that the referees are against them.......blah blah blah.

Rangers fans hate The Daily Record and say it's biased.........Celtic fans hate the Daily Record and say it's biased. Rangers fans hate 'Nurenberg' Keevins.......Celtic fans hate Keevins.

Basically, I just see the media, besides a rare few, as a bunch of @rseholes, many who are either out to get a reaction from us or get a reaction inadvertedly through their own incompetence. Of course, certain individuals may have a biased attitude (Speirs for example), but on the whole it's just folk looking for a reaction from both sides and searching out sensational headlines.

I don't see any agenda, bias or unfairness. I just think we have a really shite bunch of journos in this country.

[bigmarvloyal 0]

What issues though, Frankie, do fans feel particularly aggrieved about ?

Billy Boys ? Are they expecting Martin Bain to stand in front of the media and commit 'PR suicide' by trying to defend the use of the word 'f*nian' in a song, a defence that may have some validity but a defence that the public as a whole have no time for.

What else ? Because I really don't see it. I'm a fan and season ticket holder, I don't feel that I need to be defended. Where is this 'poor soul' syndrome coming from ?!

the lies that get spouted in newspapers on a regular basis, the highlighting and magnification of anything out of line from us - and the complete lack of any reporting of wrong doing from our city neighbours, no mention of the frequent pro-ira nonsense heard clearly at the gretna game amongst others.

what we want is a level playing field, do you honestly believe that is what we have?

I agree that the IRA stuff from Celtic fans should be highlighted more often. It is touched upon now and then, as were the Gazza chants recently, but not enough.

With regards to the rest though, it's just the same stuff that Celtic fans complain about. They talk about the 'laptop' loyal in the media, believe the SFA is full of bluenoses, that the referees are against them.......blah blah blah.

Rangers fans hate The Daily Record and say it's biased.........Celtic fans hate the Daily Record and say it's biased. Rangers fans hate 'Nurenberg' Keevins.......Celtic fans hate Keevins.

Basically, I just see the media, besides a rare few, as a bunch of @rseholes, many who are either out to get a reaction from us or get a reaction inadvertedly through their own incompetence. Of course, certain individuals may have a biased attitude (Speirs for example), but on the whole it's just folk looking for a reaction from both sides and searching out sensational headlines.

I don't see any agenda, bias or unfairness. I just think we have a really shite bunch of journos in this country.

Where do we even begin with people like you?

Open your eyes man... on the radio, television and in print media... Rangers are highlighted constantly as being the big bad Proddies whilst Celtic get an easy ride because they are oppressed immigrants.

Wake up soon pal.

[FlippinEck 3,708]

The people getting the free tickets would be the people who had earned enough travel points to get a ticket in the first place so not just "anybody" could get one as far as im aware.

[minstral 5,375]

What issues though, Frankie, do fans feel particularly aggrieved about ?

Billy Boys ? Are they expecting Martin Bain to stand in front of the media and commit 'PR suicide' by trying to defend the use of the word 'f*nian' in a song, a defence that may have some validity but a defence that the public as a whole have no time for.

What else ? Because I really don't see it. I'm a fan and season ticket holder, I don't feel that I need to be defended. Where is this 'poor soul' syndrome coming from ?!

the lies that get spouted in newspapers on a regular basis, the highlighting and magnification of anything out of line from us - and the complete lack of any reporting of wrong doing from our city neighbours, no mention of the frequent pro-ira nonsense heard clearly at the gretna game amongst others.

what we want is a level playing field, do you honestly believe that is what we have?

I agree that the IRA stuff from Celtic fans should be highlighted more often. It is touched upon now and then, as were the Gazza chants recently, but not enough.

With regards to the rest though, it's just the same stuff that Celtic fans complain about. They talk about the 'laptop' loyal in the media, believe the SFA is full of bluenoses, that the referees are against them.......blah blah blah.

Rangers fans hate The Daily Record and say it's biased.........Celtic fans hate the Daily Record and say it's biased. Rangers fans hate 'Nurenberg' Keevins.......Celtic fans hate Keevins.

Basically, I just see the media, besides a rare few, as a bunch of @rseholes, many who are either out to get a reaction from us or get a reaction inadvertedly through their own incompetence. Of course, certain individuals may have a biased attitude (Speirs for example), but on the whole it's just folk looking for a reaction from both sides and searching out sensational headlines.

I don't see any agenda, bias or unfairness. I just think we have a really shite bunch of journos in this country.

what about your uncle davy and the dublin loyal banner.

[ScotBear 144]

Open your eyes man... on the radio, television and in print media... Rangers are highlighted constantly as being the big bad Proddies whilst Celtic get an easy ride because they are oppressed immigrants.

Wake up soon pal.

Nobody is providing any specific examples. You yourself have merely made a very general point with no facts or examples.

I think the paranoid brigade need to wake up. Celtic are miles ahead of us on that front, but a few our lot are making a decent sprint to try and catch up.

Specific examples I have seen are.....

1) Osasuna. And as Frankie acknowledged, we handled that well, worked with the fans, made a public statement criticising the Spanish police and made an official complaint to UEFA

2) Billy Boys. And as I've said, it would be suicide for anyone from within Rangers to come out and try to defend it.

Besides those two issues, all I see is general soundbites that Celtic fans themselves use with regards to the media.

[ScotBear 144]

what about your uncle davy and the dublin loyal banner.

You'd need to ask the police about that one.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Rangers fans hate The Daily Record and say it's biased.........Celtic fans hate the Daily Record and say it's biased. Rangers fans hate 'Nurenberg' Keevins.......Celtic fans hate Keevins.

The difference is that keevins is a sellick fan who occasionally criticises the tims, to maintain some pathetic credibility when he launches all out offensives against us....

But the is none so blind as he who will not see.

[Bluedell 14]

what about your uncle davy and the dublin loyal banner.

You'd need to ask the police about that one.

What have the police got to do with the club's opinion on that? Are the club unable to form, their own opinion without following the police's?

[Bluedell 14]

Open your eyes man... on the radio, television and in print media... Rangers are highlighted constantly as being the big bad Proddies whilst Celtic get an easy ride because they are oppressed immigrants.

Wake up soon pal.

Nobody is providing any specific examples. You yourself have merely made a very general point with no facts or examples.

I think the paranoid brigade need to wake up. Celtic are miles ahead of us on that front, but a few our lot are making a decent sprint to try and catch up.

Specific examples I have seen are.....

1) Osasuna. And as Frankie acknowledged, we handled that well, worked with the fans, made a public statement criticising the Spanish police and made an official complaint to UEFA

2) Billy Boys. And as I've said, it would be suicide for anyone from within Rangers to come out and try to defend it.

Besides those two issues, all I see is general soundbites that Celtic fans themselves use with regards to the media.

Are you really that blind that you need examples? Let's look at the last week or so. We have had the BBC claiming that rangers fans were singing sectarian songs during the cup final and the BBC claiming that Rangers fans are "half human".

[Bluedell 14]

It's EoL I feel sorry for....

[ScotBear 144]

I'm not aware of the BBC stuff. Have you got a source I can look at ?

[blueben_d 40]

Open your eyes man... on the radio, television and in print media... Rangers are highlighted constantly as being the big bad Proddies whilst Celtic get an easy ride because they are oppressed immigrants.

Wake up soon pal.

Nobody is providing any specific examples. You yourself have merely made a very general point with no facts or examples.

I think the paranoid brigade need to wake up. Celtic are miles ahead of us on that front, but a few our lot are making a decent sprint to try and catch up.

Specific examples I have seen are.....

1) Osasuna. And as Frankie acknowledged, we handled that well, worked with the fans, made a public statement criticising the Spanish police and made an official complaint to UEFA

2) Billy Boys. And as I've said, it would be suicide for anyone from within Rangers to come out and try to defend it.

Besides those two issues, all I see is general soundbites that Celtic fans themselves use with regards to the media.

the specific examples have been gone over time and time again and I really don't want to get drawn into dragging them all up again - there is a lot of them.

Frankie probably has a list somewhere

[ScotBear 144]

Fine, but you can hardly blame me for not seeing any good reason for the constant sniping, with regards to a lack of defence of the fans, when nobody is giving any specific examples.

Hopefully somebody can at least give me a source for the recent BBC stuff that bluedell has mentioned, which I find hard to believe, but I'm willing to accept if I can see a source for myself.

[docspiderman 1,245]

I'm not aware of the BBC stuff. Have you got a source I can look at ?

I was not aware of the bbc stuff but the songs and add on were being sung around me in the North Stand and I have heard from others also in the West Stand. We all know that it still occurs just as we all know that the IRA chants are still in force from the other side.

[ScotBear 144]

I'm not aware of the BBC stuff. Have you got a source I can look at ?

I was not aware of the bbc stuff but the songs and add on were being sung around me in the North Stand and I have heard from others also in the West Stand. We all know that it still occurs just as we all know that the IRA chants are still in force from the other side.

Yeah, and that's fair enough, we can't expect the issue to disappear completely overnight. I'm proud of the progress the club has made in such a short space of time

Your post does show that the BBC were accurate though in what they said (although I would still appreciate a source from someone to confirm that they did actually report it in the first place).

And most of all, I'd like a source with regards to this 'half human' nonsense. I find it very hard to believe that the BBC would come out with something like that.

[ScotBear 144]

Just seen the 'half human' comment on another thread.

From Radio Scotland's 'Newsdrive' programme, which was talking about human embryos, and one of the presenters, Ruth Davidson or Abeer Macintyre, read out an email which read, "Half-human, half-animal hybrids are not new – Ibrox has been their home for over a century."

Now for me, that's no great big deal. An apology wouldn't hurt........and now we have an official apology from the BBC. So all is well that ends well.

Ultimately, all that issue has done is make the email sender look like a moron, and the two presenters seem very daft and naive. But I certainly don't think a couple of ladies on a topical news programme have any sort of agenda against Rangers.

[bigmarvloyal 0]

Just seen the 'half human' comment on another thread.

From Radio Scotland's 'Newsdrive' programme, which was talking about human embryos, and one of the presenters, Ruth Davidson or Abeer Macintyre, read out an email which read, "Half-human, half-animal hybrids are not new – Ibrox has been their home for over a century."

Now for me, that's no great big deal. An apology wouldn't hurt........and now we have an official apology from the BBC. So all is well that ends well.

Ultimately, all that issue has done is make the email sender look like a moron, and the two presenters seem very daft and naive. But I certainly don't think a couple of ladies on a topical news programme have any sort of agenda against Rangers.

Look at the other thread about the BBC website altering the image "alt" tags to have sly digs at Rangers and their players.

I'm beginning to think you are some kind of clown at the wind up in here.

[bigmarvloyal 0]

I'm not aware of the BBC stuff. Have you got a source I can look at ?

I was not aware of the bbc stuff but the songs and add on were being sung around me in the North Stand and I have heard from others also in the West Stand. We all know that it still occurs just as we all know that the IRA chants are still in force from the other side.

I was in the South Stand and no such ditties were getting belted out near me.

I think you've maybe heard one or two pished up arseholes singing and come on here trying to make out the whole Rangers end was in full chorus.

And posting that on a Rangers messageboard is just the ammo the media need to nail us even more.

[tommy2212 151]

Defo agree with point 3 the home match is way to expensive, maybe it is to pay for the 2500 tickets - robbing peter to pay paul comes to mind.

[Frankie 505]

Scotbear:

There are countless examples on here and elsewhere from week to week over the last few years especially.

Now, it could be argued some of these are far too silly for the club to get involved in, it could be argued that the club have better things to do and it could be argued that other clubs suffer from the same coverage. That's fair enough but I and a lot more Rangers fans - see most online communities and the club AGM for examples of the large number of fans unhappy with the coverage - feel the club should be doing more to challenge it's (and our) perception.

I'll give you a few examples that the club have not challenged effectively enough but something tells me you are more than aware of them. While each single example may not be the end of the world, the overall effect is something I have direct experience of in various areas of my life which usually results in many netutrals equating myself and my club as being intolerant, racist and or sectarian.

In no particular order:

1. Confectionary wrapper colours suggesting we're bigots.

2. Sash designed pitches.

3. Ibrox being compared to Nuremberg rallies in print, on radio and on TV.

4. Martin O'Neill calling our fans racialist (sic).

5. The endless stream of lies from Graham Spiers.

6. Our fans being 90% more likely to be arrested that Celtic fans at an Old Firm game.

7. The Union flag being removed from our supporters at such games.

8. Our club having songs removed while others get off Scot free.

9. Several safety problems abroad (Stuttgart, Bratislava, Villarreal, Osasuna etc).

10. Perception of our fans after Barca away game.

11. KevincuntThomson

12. Opposition players being allowed to gesture to and abuse our fans at Ibrox Stadium then claiming persecution afterwards.

13. Our youth team being attached as bigotted.

14. Our supporters groups being labelled paramilitary.

15. Our players and fans being compared to animals by publicly funded corporations.

Need I go on...?

[bigmarvloyal 0]

Scotbear:

There are countless examples on here and elsewhere from week to week over the last few years especially.

Now, it could be argued some of these are far too silly for the club to get involved in, it could be argued that the club have better things to do and it could be argued that other clubs suffer from the same coverage. That's fair enough but I and a lot more Rangers fans - see most online communities and the club AGM for examples of the large number of fans unhappy with the coverage - feel the club should be doing more to challenge it's (and our) perception.

I'll give you a few examples that the club have not challenged effectively enough but something tells me you are more than aware of them. While each single example may not be the end of the world, the overall effect is something I have direct experience of in various areas of my life which usually results in many netutrals equating myself and my club as being intolerant, racist and or sectarian.

In no particular order:

1. Confectionary wrapper colours suggesting we're bigots.

2. Sash designed pitches.

3. Ibrox being compared to Nuremberg rallies in print, on radio and on TV.

4. Martin O'Neill calling our fans racialist (sic).

5. The endless stream of lies from Graham Spiers.

6. Our fans being 90% more likely to be arrested that Celtic fans at an Old Firm game.

7. The Union flag being removed from our supporters at such games.

8. Our club having songs removed while others get off Scot free.

9. Several safety problems abroad (Stuttgart, Bratislava, Villarreal, Osasuna etc).

10. Perception of our fans after Barca away game.

11. KevincuntThomson

12. Opposition players being allowed to gesture to and abuse our fans at Ibrox Stadium then claiming persecution afterwards.

13. Our youth team being attached as bigotted.

14. Our supporters groups being labelled paramilitary.

15. Our players and fans being compared to animals by publicly funded corporations.

Need I go on...?

According to some, you just need a sense of humor.

[ScotBear 144]

Some of those are valid criticisms Frankie, some I find a bit ridiculous and others I'd feel aren't worth getting worked up about.

Over the 20 odd years I've been supporting Rangers, there have only been a handful of things that I'd get really uptight about. Some fans for me, from all clubs, walk around looking to be offended. There's also this internet culture of paranoia that's grown arms and legs on the likes of Follow Follow and CelticMinded in my view, and a lot of folk are getting awfully carried away.

From my experience, your average Rangers fan on the street, pub, workplace and ground aren't bothered to anything like the extent of regular visitors to internet forums, in terms of a lack of defence from the club. I think a lot of people feel the club could do more, and a lot of fans don't like Bain as our voice/face in the media.........but there isn't this strong feeling of hate, distrust and disbelief aimed against Murray, Bain and co. for their lack of action.

Fans want to see people getting spanked in public, but this isn't always the best way. I know that Murray is personally on the phone to radio stations and journos regularly, and doesn't pull any punches when he's unhappy with something. And it's immediate action, if he hears something on Clyde that night he doesn't like, he's phoned them up straight after the show to have a pop at them.

From a personal point of view, Speirs really angered me greatly. But then I was delighted when Murray came out and basically suggested that people boycott his paper. I also won't complain that the club never defended our right to sing the Billy Boys (would have been suicide) and with regards to Osasuna, we publically criticised the spanish police and sent an official complaint to UEFA.

The issue that would annoy me is fans not being allowed to bring certain flags to games, as we saw at Tynecastle. Is that still the case there ? Surely not. I think the police and stewards need to take a look at themselves in such situations.

But to sum up........

"There are countless examples on here and elsewhere from week to week"

If anyone genuinly believes that to be the case, they are trying far too hard to be offended.

Actually, just to add a final point, one bit of advice I've been given regularly in the past is to 'not give a f*ck what the media think. Turn off your radio, don't buy their papers......' And then these same people are often the ones moaning. It's unbelievable ! I just don't think there's a need to take life so seriously. The world has it's fair share of arseholes, and a fair number seem to find their way into the media unfortunately.

[bigmarvloyal 0]

Some of those are valid criticisms Frankie, some I find a bit ridiculous and others I'd feel aren't worth getting worked up about.

Over the 20 odd years I've been supporting Rangers, there have only been a handful of things that I'd get really uptight about. Some fans for me, from all clubs, walk around looking to be offended. There's also this internet culture of paranoia that's grown arms and legs on the likes of Follow Follow and CelticMinded in my view, and a lot of folk are getting awfully carried away.

From my experience, your average Rangers fan on the street, pub, workplace and ground aren't bothered to anything like the extent of regular visitors to internet forums, in terms of a lack of defence from the club. I think a lot of people feel the club could do more, and a lot of fans don't like Bain as our voice/face in the media.........but there isn't this strong feeling of hate, distrust and disbelief aimed against Murray, Bain and co. for their lack of action.

Fans want to see people getting spanked in public, but this isn't always the best way. I know that Murray is personally on the phone to radio stations and journos regularly, and doesn't pull any punches when he's unhappy with something. And it's immediate action, if he hears something on Clyde that night he doesn't like, he's phoned them up straight after the show to have a pop at them.

From a personal point of view, Speirs really angered me greatly. But then I was delighted when Murray came out and basically suggested that people boycott his paper. I also won't complain that the club never defended our right to sing the Billy Boys (would have been suicide) and with regards to Osasuna, we publically criticised the spanish police and sent an official complaint to UEFA.

The issue that would annoy me is fans not being allowed to bring certain flags to games, as we saw at Tynecastle. Is that still the case there ? Surely not. I think the police and stewards need to take a look at themselves in such situations.

But to sum up........

"There are countless examples on here and elsewhere from week to week"

If anyone genuinly believes that to be the case, they are trying far too hard to be offended.

Actually, just to add a final point, one bit of advice I've been given regularly in the past is to 'not give a f*ck what the media think. Turn off your radio, don't buy their papers......' And then these same people are often the ones moaning. It's unbelievable ! I just don't think there's a need to take life so seriously. The world has it's fair share of arseholes, and a fair number seem to find their way into the media unfortunately.

When was this bud? I can't remember his doing such a thing and if he did, my opinion of him would change greatly.

[ScotBear 144]

When was this bud? I can't remember his doing such a thing and if he did, my opinion of him would change greatly.

He didn't use the words 'Herald' or 'Speirs', but at the time everyone knew exactly who he was talking about. After he made this statement, radio stations and newspapers were naming the Herald and Speirs as the focus of Murrays criticism, so they certainly took a negative public hit from Murray's statement.

http://www.rangers.premiumtv.co.uk/page/Ne...~693937,00.html

Murray's Message To Fans

By Chairman David Murray

I WAS a proud man on Sunday afternoon as I unfurled the SPL Championship flag ahead of our opening fixture against Livingston because it represented a major triumph for our great club that was achieved against the odds.

From the beginning of the 2004/05 campaign until virtually the final kick we were continually criticised in certain sections of the press and media on a variety of topics and a lot of it was very personal and, I believe, unnecessary.

Manager Alex McLeish was savaged, individual players were abused and the Club was continually made a target by certain individuals. I also bore the brunt of critical attacks.

I know this is an issue which infuriates Rangers supporters and I have a suggestion for them today which I hope they will consider.

I have literally received thousands of emails and letters from supporters who want to know why we do not take action against people who unfairly and continuously put the boot into Rangers in an effort to gain notoriety.

At every meeting I have had with supporters, sponsors or investors it is the same theme: 'Why do you let these people get away with it?'

Many of you have asked me to take action. You have suggested that I no longer make the culprits and their newspapers welcome at Ibrox and I stop them from attending press conferences.

I can understand why so many of you feel that way because some of the things that are written are so blatantly unfair and unjustified.

The thing is, I do not want to make martyrs of these people who seem intent on hammering Rangers at every opportunity without any apparent justification.

These people want me to react and they want you, the supporters, to react. If we do so it gives them credence and I, for one, am not willing to do that.

They want me to ban them because it will give them a badge of distinction.

We as a Club have written to editors seeking explanations and we have had meetings with some of them but these actions appear to have been in vain. Similar attacks and unfair criticism have followed.

The answer is simple. If you do not like what certain journalists are writing then stop buying their newspapers.

They can scribble away to their hearts' content, but if the product starts to lose sales then maybe their editors will begin to take note of the reason why.

We live in world where we believe in the democracy and freedom of the press, but some of the personal attacks on Rangers people have been way over the top - and they know it.

Don't be fooled by the occasional positive article which must have been hard for them to write.

It may seem unusual that I should choose this moment to go public on this subject, but I know that it is an issue which is very emotive among fans and needs addressed.

Yes, we can make a difference. Stop buying newspapers who, in your opinion, unjustly attack us and maybe the perpetrators will think twice.

THEY KNOW WHO THEY ARE

[Bluedell 14]

I'm not aware of the BBC stuff. Have you got a source I can look at ?

I was not aware of the bbc stuff but the songs and add on were being sung around me in the North Stand and I have heard from others also in the West Stand. We all know that it still occurs just as we all know that the IRA chants are still in force from the other side.

What songs were sung at the cup final that should not have been sung? I was in the North Stand and didn't hear any.