About the announcement

[Frankie 505]

Well if the directors all work for nothing then that's amazing.

If they all put in money to the club and not expect anything back then that is philanthropy at its best.

I think you'll find that all the Directors will take a dividend at year end even if they don't take a "wage" as we know it to be out during the year.

Not only would it be their "salary" per se but it would reduce the tax cost payable by the club if we were ever to make a profit.

Not all directors work for the club. Those that do get paid a wage - as Bain et al do. Most of our directors own very few shares in the grand scheme of things when you consider MIH's 91.8% holding.

Murray, IIRC, does not take a wage or a dividend from the club (last dividend was paid out in the 1980s I think).

[nvager 498]

This is a lot of commotion about little imo.

Nothing for anyone to get too worked up about.

It will pass - the result on Saturday - now THAT is a biggie

[bigmarvloyal 0]

Well if the directors all work for nothing then that's amazing.

If they all put in money to the club and not expect anything back then that is philanthropy at its best.

I think you'll find that all the Directors will take a dividend at year end even if they don't take a "wage" as we know it to be out during the year.

Not only would it be their "salary" per se but it would reduce the tax cost payable by the club if we were ever to make a profit.

Not all directors work for the club. Those that do get paid a wage - as Bain et al do. Most of our directors own very few shares in the grand scheme of things when you consider MIH's 91.8% holding.

Murray, IIRC, does not take a wage or a dividend from the club (last dividend was paid out in the 1980s I think).

Share Dividends and Dividends are two totally separate entities.

I don't know the ins and outs of the director dividends and who gets what at Rangers. But I just know that it would be extremely unusual for Directors NOT to be paid yearly dividends (NOT SHARE DIVIDENDS) relating to the success of the finances.

[Danny 9]

This is a lot of commotion about little imo.

Nothing for anyone to get too worked up about.

It will pass - the result on Saturday - now THAT is a biggie

Thanks, guess we can close the thread now then...

[Skol 401]

I largely agree with Frankie on this topic so far.

Danny I don't see how this punishes fans. Some people have spent thousands following Rangers this year in away matches and although it wasn't a massively expensive gesture from Rangers, it was a very decent one. Like all of these travel club ideas, the fans who attend most should rightly get first pick. The fact that their tickets are now free is a great idea from Rangers.

I think I've asked you this before but I can't remember your answer. Are you a season ticket holder? Do you go to Ibrox?

If not, would you think it was fair if someone who has attended every Rangers Euro away tie so far this year was lower down the pecking order for tickets than someone who hasn't been to any? Would you think it was a fair system if I (who hasn't been to any away ties this year) managed to get a ticket for the Sporting game and Manticore didn't? The fans who spend so much following Rangers round the world would be absolutely outraged at the lack of loyalty displayed and would accuse Murray/Bain etc of disrespecting the most loyal of fans.

I agree that the home prices are steep but this is a prestigious tie and the club can make a lot of money from it. We all know the team needs strengthened in the summer and it'd be naive not to make the most of our opportunities.

[Danny 9]

I largely agree with Frankie on this topic so far.

Danny I don't see how this punishes fans. Some people have spent thousands following Rangers this year in away matches and although it wasn't a massively expensive gesture from Rangers, it was a very decent one. Like all of these travel club ideas, the fans who attend most should rightly get first pick. The fact that their tickets are now free is a great idea from Rangers.

They're not free...

I think I've asked you this before but I can't remember your answer. Are you a season ticket holder? Do you go to Ibrox?

I answered before. Not as often as I used to.

If not, would you think it was fair if someone who has attended every Rangers Euro away tie so far this year was lower down the pecking order for tickets than someone who hasn't been to any?

I wouldn't, no. Oddly enough, I didn't ask for that either.

Would you think it was a fair system if I (who hasn't been to any away ties this year) managed to get a ticket for the Sporting game and Manticore didn't?

I think Manticore would be disappointed as much as you would be if you tried and failed and he went instead. However, I do believe guys like Manticore are fair and believe in an even playing field rather than elitism which rewards them and dismisses everyone else.

The fans who spend so much following Rangers round the world would be absolutely outraged at the lack of loyalty displayed and would accuse Murray/Bain etc of disrespecting the most loyal of fans.

Why do I feel that somehow you're missing my point?

I agree that the home prices are steep but this is a prestigious tie and the club can make a lot of money from it. We all know the team needs strengthened in the summer and it'd be naive not to make the most of our opportunities.

This is rampant opportunism at its worst, and it's fooling the majority.

Well in SDM - I applaud your acumen.

[minstral 5,375]

listen guys like manticore are fantastic fans and are entitled to the free tickets and good luck to them, but what i object to is davy boy could have kept the price of the home tickets as they were then all our loyal fans would be rewarded, and been a great gesture thats my problem with davy boy.

[Skol 401]

Hmm. I don't see how splitting up the post and adding comments like "why do I feel that somehow you're missing my point" is all that helpful in reasonable debate.

The allocation system for European away games rewards those who attend the highest number of matches with first choice for the next round. In this case, this also means a free ticket (a point you contest?). You say "this is preventing any bluenose who hasn't been away in Europe before from going to this game." Well in an ideal world, after all the fans from the travel clubs have got their tickets, they would be able to. However, we have a limited number of tickets and there has to be a system for distributing these. I can't see how any system that doesn't reward loyalty is a fair one.

If I apply for tickets I would be disappointed to miss out but I completely understand that the fans who attend the most should get first pick. Any other system would be grossly unfair. You say this is "elitism".

Imagine you attended every European game home and away all the way to the final and some guy who hadn't been to any got a ticket ahead of you. That would be a disgraceful way to treat supporters.

You say you don't attend as often as you used to. (edit: found the old thread when I asked before: No reply) As a season ticket holder, I think I should get priority ahead of non ST holders when applying for extra home matches such as the home Euro matches. Is that elitist?

The free ticket thing is a nice gesture and I think to suggest it's a form of posturing ('Look at us, we can buy all the tickets, we're so cool') is a very strange notion.

I do agree with Minstral's point that it would have been far better without the hike for the home game though. Prices in general in UK football are ridiculous.

[Bluedell 14]

Well if the directors all work for nothing then that's amazing.

If they all put in money to the club and not expect anything back then that is philanthropy at its best.

I think you'll find that all the Directors will take a dividend at year end even if they don't take a "wage" as we know it to be out during the year.

Not only would it be their "salary" per se but it would reduce the tax cost payable by the club if we were ever to make a profit.

Not all directors work for the club. Those that do get paid a wage - as Bain et al do. Most of our directors own very few shares in the grand scheme of things when you consider MIH's 91.8% holding.

Murray, IIRC, does not take a wage or a dividend from the club (last dividend was paid out in the 1980s I think).

Share Dividends and Dividends are two totally separate entities.

I don't know the ins and outs of the director dividends and who gets what at Rangers. But I just know that it would be extremely unusual for Directors NOT to be paid yearly dividends (NOT SHARE DIVIDENDS) relating to the success of the finances.

Not sure what you are talking about. None of the directors receive any sort of dividend.

Do you mean bonuses rather than dividends?

Firstly Murray does not take any pay as Frankie has already said.

Directors last year received a total of £502K in salaries. Bain got £311K and I believe that there were 2 other directors (one being Donald McIntyre, the financial director) making up the balance. Bain certainly receivs a bonus which is apparently performance related. Nothing wrong with that per se, although there may be some issues with the way that his bonus is structured.

[BlueIsTheColour 35]

Danny i believe you are missing the point here. Sure, Murray has clearly used opportunistic measures in the case of buying the Sporting tickets in response to the price hike for the home leg. He may actually make a profit even after paying for the away tickets due to that £9 rise in every home ticket. Financially it will not make any difference to him or the club but it is evidently a very good PR exercise designed to get some fans back on-side.

But one thing that this announcement is not going to do is punish any supporters. Your point seems to centre around the fact the fans who go to most or every away European game will be given priority. Well that happens anyway. The Travel Club is based on a points system whereby a member recieves a point if he/she applies for a ticket for a Euro away game regardless of whether they recieve one or not. The members with the highest number of points get priority. This is rewarding loyalty. Murray buying the tickets for Sporting Lisbon is not going to make the blind bit of difference to the Travel Club allocation process as the tickets as always will go to the members with the higher number of points. And rightly so.

As someone who has attended 4 (soon to be 5) European away games this season and has 8 points, i would be raging if a new member with no points was allocated a ticket ahead of me for a final or a match against a big club. Where would the fairness be in that? The system is very fair and i cannot think of another which would be more beneficial to the loyal fans who travel everywhere to see the team.

The freezing and reduction of adult and juvenile tickets respectfully is also a very good gesture from which the club doesn't stand to gain anything from financially. This rewards ALL fans as not only does it help current season ticket holders to afford the renewal it also allows parents, who once couldn't afford to, the chance to bring the kids along to the Ibrox experience.

I think you are being naive when you talk of ordinary fans being "punished". Okay, as i said at the beginning of my post, it will be the hike in home prices that allows the club to afford to pay for the away fans' tickets but do you seriously have a problem with the extra money on your home ticket going towards paying for an away ticket for a fellow Bear who has shelled out thousands of pounds following the club abroad? And considering that the ticket acounts for less than 10% of the total cost of going to Lisbon it isn't exactly rewarding the fans who travel greatly is it?

[Danny 9]

I actually give up here.

I've made my points, and you guys keep arguing against ones I haven't.

[Frankie 505]

I actually give up here.

I've made my points, and you guys keep arguing against ones I haven't.

Erm, your point was that 'ordinary fans' were being 'punished' and imply there is some sort of 'unfair elitist' system where upon 'ordinary fans' are being 'denied their right' to attend the game in favour of those who have attended more matches. That's untrue as the process is no different from any other Rangers game (domestic or otherwise).

You also contradict your earlier opinions by saying loyalty and commitment should be rewarded - then complain about it!

Is it any wonder the rest of us are confused with what you're trying to say...? Thank goodness you're giving up....

[KingOfTheWing 0]

I think most of us would agree that lowering the home ticket price would have been a better reward to the fans as 50000 benefit rather than the 2500 or so travel club members.

[Frankie 505]

I think most of us would agree that lowering the home ticket price would have been a better reward to the fans as 50000 benefit rather than the 2500 or so travel club members.

Indeed or if the club were really serious - they could have done both.

Nevertheless the juvenile and adult season ticket freezes/reduction IS good news so we should concentrate on that. The RST actually raised this issue last year so it's good to know the club are listening.

[bigmarvloyal 0]

I think most of us would agree that lowering the home ticket price would have been a better reward to the fans as 50000 benefit rather than the 2500 or so travel club members.

Indeed or if the club were really serious - they could have done both.

Nevertheless the juvenile and adult season ticket freezes/reduction IS good news so we should concentrate on that. The RST actually raised this issue last year so it's good to know the club are listening.

Have you lot chinned Murray about his failure to defend the fans yet Frankie?

[Bluedell 14]

I think most of us would agree that lowering the home ticket price would have been a better reward to the fans as 50000 benefit rather than the 2500 or so travel club members.

Indeed or if the club were really serious - they could have done both.

Nevertheless the juvenile and adult season ticket freezes/reduction IS good news so we should concentrate on that. The RST actually raised this issue last year so it's good to know the club are listening.

Have you lot chinned Murray about his failure to defend the fans yet Frankie?

I would imagine that Frankie and the RST guys have done that on more than one occasion.

[Frankie 505]

Have you lot chinned Murray about his failure to defend the fans yet Frankie?

We've raised the issue many times directly and indirectly with the powers that be...

I'd like to think we were instrumental in the appointment of (albeit the not completely effectual) MediaHouse - as well as some other ways the club have changed their tact recently - but I'm sure we all agree more needs to be done.

We'll continue to raise and combat any unfair coverage as well as we can.

[KingOfTheWing 0]

Murray won't defend the fans

[bigmarvloyal 0]

Have you lot chinned Murray about his failure to defend the fans yet Frankie?

We've raised the issue many times directly and indirectly with the powers that be...

I'd like to think we were instrumental in the appointment of (albeit the not completely effectual) MediaHouse - as well as some other ways the club have changed their tact recently - but I'm sure we all agree more needs to be done.

We'll continue to raise and combat any unfair coverage as well as we can.

Any links to prior press releases about this topic?

[Frankie 505]

Any links to prior press releases about this topic?

Have a look at the Trust website for various statements we've made in this regard. I've found one from late last year below:

http://www.rangerssupporterstrust.co.uk/rs...3&Itemid=43

"The Trust again calls on Rangers FC to deal robustly with such false claims. Last season the club apparently spent over £700,000 on PR, yet lies and propaganda continue seemingly unabated. The Trust asks how low media mud-slingers have to go before they are treated with the same unique contempt they reserve for ordinary, decent Rangers fans."

You should also be able to find minutes from meetings with the club where we raised the issue. Moreover, at various club AGMs you would have heard Trust members bring the subject up at those meetings - often to the chagrin of the club personnel present.

[ScotBear 144]

What is all this stuff about not defending the fans ?

After the Osasuna incident, we released a public statement criticising the treatment of our fans from the Spanish police and we made an official complaint to UEFA.

What more do you want ?

[Frankie 505]

What is all this stuff about not defending the fans ?

After the Osasuna incident, we released a public statement criticising the treatmen of our fans from the Spanish police and we made an official complaint to UEFA.

What more do you want ?

As you know, many more issues have arisen in terms of flawed media perception of the club and fans. That's why some people still feel the club don't do enough to protect our image.

The Spanish police defence was a good example of where the club and fans can work together to help each other in this regard. It doesn't happen anywhere near enough.

[ScotBear 144]

What issues though, Frankie, do fans feel particularly aggrieved about ?

Billy Boys ? Are they expecting Martin Bain to stand in front of the media and commit 'PR suicide' by trying to defend the use of the word 'f*nian' in a song, a defence that may have some validity but a defence that the public as a whole have no time for.

What else ? Because I really don't see it. I'm a fan and season ticket holder, I don't feel that I need to be defended. Where is this 'poor soul' syndrome coming from ?!

[andy500 463]

I don't agree with point two.

I think the loyal fan's should be rewarded, if you had been to every Euro away game this season and then they gave out free tickets to a guy who joined the travel club the night before and you were left at home would you be happy ?

[blueben_d 40]

What issues though, Frankie, do fans feel particularly aggrieved about ?

Billy Boys ? Are they expecting Martin Bain to stand in front of the media and commit 'PR suicide' by trying to defend the use of the word 'f*nian' in a song, a defence that may have some validity but a defence that the public as a whole have no time for.

What else ? Because I really don't see it. I'm a fan and season ticket holder, I don't feel that I need to be defended. Where is this 'poor soul' syndrome coming from ?!

the lies that get spouted in newspapers on a regular basis, the highlighting and magnification of anything out of line from us - and the complete lack of any reporting of wrong doing from our city neighbours, no mention of the frequent pro-ira nonsense heard clearly at the gretna game amongst others.

what we want is a level playing field, do you honestly believe that is what we have?