The Rangers Fan of 2008 is a strange breed and one I often fail to recognise

[Briton 394]

So you don't know of any evidence of Primrose 'stamping a Protestant/Unionist identity' on Rangers FC'? I thought not. I have read quite a bit about Rangers history, although I admit much of that study was a few years ago and I don't pretend to be as knowledgeable as some, but I can never remember coming across anything concrete regarding Primrose's influence on the situation. I assumed from your statement of fact that you had. The same goes for another poster's statement that UP started a 'purge' of Catholic players.

A related question to those who have knowledge of the history. I remember reading that one of the big newspapers of the day put out a clarion call for a Scottish club to arise and challenge the Irish upstarts. Very ironic considering the attacks from the present day media. Does anyone know any details of this incident? I said 'of the day' but I'm not sure when that happened. Seems to me that is a very significant piece of evidence regarding this subject.

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Firstly Briton.......dont start make statements due to your own lack of knowledge. What I infact urged you to do is do your own research rather than call into question the veracity of those who have. Anyone who is knowledgable about the Primrose years would be nothing short of a fool to suggest anything other than he stamped a Protestant identity on our club.

With regard to your second point - there were numerous newspaper articles on the subject you raise...its not just one. Bill Murray in his book the "Old Firm and Sectarianism" deals with this in some depth...it was often popular for cartoonists to depict the Scottish teams playing Celtic as sportsmen whilst depicting them as brutes.

'You go and find evidence to back up my statement of fact' is a ludicrous position to take. Seeing as you are so knowledgable about the Primrose years then it should be a simple matter to explain the evidence for him stamping a Protestant identity on our club.

[WVB 2,560]

As always AndyP you make your arguments conscisely and well, and I hope its not to your detriment when I agree with you.

[hands cyanide capsule to Andy]

[WVB 2,560]

How dare you call any one else extreme when you use the racist word h** to your wife who comes from N.Ireland. Thats why most people treat you with the contempt you deserve BP9.

Now.....[takes deep breath]....this goes against the grain somewhat, and i may have to take a shower in a minute, but............

In defence of Bluepeter9 (btw,anyone who uses this as a screenshot or signature can expect big trouble! ) , i am assuming (without bothering to ask) that his use of the term "h***" to his wife is merely shortening the term honey or suchlike. I occasionally speak to an old school girlfriend of mine who calls me that and, as i know the context it is said in, it bothers me not. She was/is a bluenose.

If we are going to castigate Bluepeter9 (and let's face it, we should), at least do it for valid reasons, such as his ridiculous views.

I am surprised at some of the people who have used this particular stick to beat BP9. There are so many bigger, better sticks lying around. Some with nails in too.

[1690 Posts 71]

The thing people sometimes miss in this debate is that Rangers supporters are emphatically NOT banned from celebrating a Protestant heritage, should they wish to. We are banned from ripping the pish out of the pope and catholicism. Manticore wrote earlier of listening to a flute band - well, each to their own, but clearly he's not banned from doing it. Sash is allowed. Derry's Walls is allowed. Some Irish thing abot Gallows is allowed. KBOTW (I've never even heard of that) is allowed. So get over it! Decrying an outdated and frankly ludicrous politically structured religion through the means of singing at, say, Cappielow is pitiful. Join a church you prefer! Join a theological debating society! Join a political party which includes the removal of apartheid education and campaign hard to get votes!

It sounds like people are angry at not being allowed to use Rangers as a vehicle to annoy catholics (read: tims). We have so much ammunition to throw in timmy's direction, there's no need to bring in someone's (nominal) religion. How many of the lads up the dancing on Saturday last were catholics, and how many turned down a lumber after getting pished? They're no more religious than I am...it's all bullshit. If you are a genuine and committed Protestant you'll have no truck with FTP, especially not with so many women and kids beside you.

Celebrate away, diehard. Ain't no-one going to stop you.

And an aside: some of the shit BP9 takes on this board is fucking unreal.

Big reply full of quotes coming up:

Tontospal:

we have a growing number of fans, probably more noticeable on messageboards and phone-ins, who try and deny or challenge what we are and accept the mhedia view of all things Rangers being open to interpretation of being bigoted or sectarian rather than being seen as pro-protestant and a positive celebration.

Maybe we do, and maybe we don't. I'm a fairly sociable person, but I reckon I know about at most 50 people or so I'd be willing to discuss this matter with frankly and openly: possibly you know more of the 200,000 odd who went to Manchester and can form a better opinion than I can. I speak for myself and no-one else.

I like the way you lump those who disagree with you in with the media agenda against us. Very subtle, I don't think. If you've read my posts I assume you can see I'm not a fuckwit and can form opinions of my own without having to consult Gerry, Hugh or Graham. Disagreeing with you on this subject and following the 'mhedia' are totally different things and it's wrong of you to try to mix the 2, even it if suits your agenda.

I don't see it as pro-Protestant, in my time it's been expressed mainly through the medium of anti-popery (doesn't bother me...ridiculous sect and winds up timothy no end) and Irish stuff like Derry's Walls or The Sash. If every single poster on this board told me how close the bond is, I still wouldn't see why a Scottish club in Glasgow should be fixated with Irish stuff. It doesn't work for me, simple as that.

Then later:

That is the hard core support that have stuck with and will stick by the club in good times and bad.

Sorry to bust your bubble. I started going in 1985 and I haven't stopped yet...I still seem to be able to push the turnstile. Lucky I didn't injure me fingers with all that handwringing, eh? Or maybe you're a bit up yourself as the backbone of the club.

BP9 replied to my:

There's no need for that.

That was aimed at someone who was (yawn) calling him a tim.

D'Art writes:

many of the more "traditionalist" element of the support are willing to accept the views and beliefs of others.....its those more "modern" supporters who seem to be intolerant of the views of others.

There's plenty on the handwringing side who loff eave the finger massaging for a second to wag a finger at traditionalists, it's true. I have no problem telling people I think they're wrong. But it's way off the mark to say the trads are accepting of others...in a reversal of Tontospal's opinion earlier, it's quite clear that those who frequent messageboards are vitriolically (sp?) opposed to progressives, both verbally and boringly often with big scary threats to knock sense into people. Can it be that D'Art is right and that most trads are tolerant of other views, and that the more extreme views on here are the minority? I like irony.

As always AndyP you make your arguments conscisely and well, and I hope its not to your detriment when I agree with you.

I also note that because I hold the 'handwringing or 'modern, view' people always assume I am a new supporter when I have held a season ticket scince 1986.

I have also noted that the 'trads' on here, in my perception, dont seem to be the warm open type to others views, I may have got them wrong but perhaps it is just the minority of the trads who give me a hard time ! (For those not on my wavelength please note the irony of the statement before replying) Boltonloyal - I dont think you even need to reply - your statements about Celtic show you are at the extreme of this debate and you make White Van Bear look like a modern handwringer.

How dare you call any one else extreme when you use the racist word h** to your wife who comes from N.Ireland. Thats why most people treat you with the contempt you deserve BP9.

Get it right - I call her h**s - we only became uptight at the word h** when they started on about fenians - that old tit-for-tat we get involved in. I do feel sorry if folks take offence at the word h**. My wife is Protestant (goes to church ) is from Northern Ireland and had a season ticket for 22 years, all her family are there - and neither she nor her family take any offence at the word so no need for you to defend her.

If you go to the game today go up to the first people from ulster you come to and call them h**'s let us know what hospital your in so we can have a laugh.

Violence, the first resort of the idiot.

[edranger 0]

How dare you call any one else extreme when you use the racist word h** to your wife who comes from N.Ireland. Thats why most people treat you with the contempt you deserve BP9.

Now.....[takes deep breath]....this goes against the grain somewhat, and i may have to take a shower in a minute, but............

In defence of Bluepeter9 (btw,anyone who uses this as a screenshot or signature can expect big trouble! ) , i am assuming (without bothering to ask) that his use of the term "h***" to his wife is merely shortening the term honey or suchlike. I occasionally speak to an old school girlfriend of mine who calls me that and, as i know the context it is said in, it bothers me not. She was/is a bluenose.

If we are going to castigate Bluepeter9 (and let's face it, we should), at least do it for valid reasons, such as his ridiculous views.

I am surprised at some of the people who have used this particular stick to beat BP9. There are so many bigger, better sticks lying around. Some with nails in too.

You need to look at back threads WVB where some one was done in court and found guiltyof calling a Rangers fan a h**, he came on to the thread and admitted to calling his wife h** not h*** and did not think there was any thing worng with it.

[WVB 2,560]

You need to look at back threads WVB where some one was done in court and found guiltyof calling a Rangers fan a h**, he came on to the thread and admitted to calling his wife h** not h*** and did not think there was any thing worng with it.

h**/h***....in that context (ie, abbreviating honey) still seems ok to me, although i wouldn't say it myself admittedly (i'm not the romantic sort). I would (and indeed have)spit in the face of someone who called me a "h**" in the context that the filth use it, but thats different. To me anyway.

That's the problem with our language, its too fucking complex for most of us (myself included) to spot those subtle little nuances.

Bluepeter9 should still be hung from the nearest tree. Only by the ankles though. Then its time for the cricket bats.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

You go and find evidence to back up my statement of fact' is a ludicrous position to take. Seeing as you are so knowledgable about the Primrose years then it should be a simple matter to explain the evidence for him stamping a Protestant identity on our club.

Why ? Cant you be bothered to do it for yourself ?

Why is it ludicrous ? Can you prove it ? What evidence do you have ?

[Guest Andypendek]

Max Planck:

"A new...truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it."

[Jimenez 1]

You go and find evidence to back up my statement of fact' is a ludicrous position to take. Seeing as you are so knowledgable about the Primrose years then it should be a simple matter to explain the evidence for him stamping a Protestant identity on our club.

Why ? Cant you be bothered to do it for yourself ?

Why is it ludicrous ? Can you prove it ? What evidence do you have ?

I can't believe you are entertaining that comedian.

Mr 'Look at me' is a reject of some sort, I just haven't gathered what yet

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Well I am being honest.

I don't know exactly what Ure Primroses' influence on the Club was.

IIRC he became 'Club Patron' in 1888 and Chairman in 1912.

Given his high profile in Orangeism/ Unionism it seems to me that the Club must have been at least leaning that way by 1888.

Can anyone provide evidence to the contrary?

[Jimenez 1]

Well I am being honest.

I don't know exactly what Ure Primroses' influence on the Club was.

IIRC he became 'Club Patron' in 1888 and Chairman in 1912.

Given his high profile in Orangeism/ Unionism it seems to me that the Club must have been at least leaning that way by 1888.

Can anyone provide evidence to the contrary?

Briton will need a confesion from Primroses. By gun point if need be.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Briton will need a confesion from Primroses. By gun point if need be.

On the trivia side - did you know that Bob Wilson, the Arsenal and Scotland Goalie - Goalie in Asenal's great double winning side of 1971 was related?

His full name is Robert Primrose Wilson.

[Jimenez 1]

Briton will need a confesion from Primroses. By gun point if need be.

On the trivia side - did you know that Bob Wilson, the Arsenal and Scotland Goalie - Goalie in Asenal's great double winning side of 1971 was related?

His full name is Robert Primrose Wilson.

Anorak

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Briton will need a confesion from Primroses. By gun point if need be.

On the trivia side - did you know that Bob Wilson, the Arsenal and Scotland Goalie - Goalie in Asenal's great double winning side of 1971 was related?

His full name is Robert Primrose Wilson.

Anorak

I'm quite used to folk being jealous of my extensive knowledge

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

You go and find evidence to back up my statement of fact' is a ludicrous position to take. Seeing as you are so knowledgable about the Primrose years then it should be a simple matter to explain the evidence for him stamping a Protestant identity on our club.

Why ? Cant you be bothered to do it for yourself ?

Why is it ludicrous ? Can you prove it ? What evidence do you have ?

I can't believe you are entertaining that comedian.

Mr 'Look at me' is a reject of some sort, I just haven't gathered what yet

Neither can I Jim...

Still... perhaps despite the high public profile mentioned by M....and his strong anti-catholic views....the policy he introduced to the club of not signing catholic players....perhaps its unreasonable to suggest he stamped a Protestant idenity on the club.

Heaven knows what he would think about the comments in 1967 by Chairman Matt Taylor....

“part of our tradition....we were formed in 1873 as a Protestant boys club."

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

How dare you call any one else extreme when you use the racist word h** to your wife who comes from N.Ireland. Thats why most people treat you with the contempt you deserve BP9.

Now.....[takes deep breath]....this goes against the grain somewhat, and i may have to take a shower in a minute, but............

In defence of Bluepeter9 (btw,anyone who uses this as a screenshot or signature can expect big trouble! ) , i am assuming (without bothering to ask) that his use of the term "h***" to his wife is merely shortening the term honey or suchlike. I occasionally speak to an old school girlfriend of mine who calls me that and, as i know the context it is said in, it bothers me not. She was/is a bluenose.

If we are going to castigate Bluepeter9 (and let's face it, we should), at least do it for valid reasons, such as his ridiculous views.

I am surprised at some of the people who have used this particular stick to beat BP9. There are so many bigger, better sticks lying around. Some with nails in too.

Damm WVB - PLease Please can I add (parts of) this post to my sig. I nearly fainted given your 'support' on anything. Just the part 'In defence of Bluepeter9' PLEASE!!

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

How dare you call any one else extreme when you use the racist word h** to your wife who comes from N.Ireland. Thats why most people treat you with the contempt you deserve BP9.

Now.....[takes deep breath]....this goes against the grain somewhat, and i may have to take a shower in a minute, but............

In defence of Bluepeter9 (btw,anyone who uses this as a screenshot or signature can expect big trouble! ) , i am assuming (without bothering to ask) that his use of the term "h***" to his wife is merely shortening the term honey or suchlike. I occasionally speak to an old school girlfriend of mine who calls me that and, as i know the context it is said in, it bothers me not. She was/is a bluenose.

If we are going to castigate Bluepeter9 (and let's face it, we should), at least do it for valid reasons, such as his ridiculous views.

I am surprised at some of the people who have used this particular stick to beat BP9. There are so many bigger, better sticks lying around. Some with nails in too.

You need to look at back threads WVB where some one was done in court and found guiltyof calling a Rangers fan a h**, he came on to the thread and admitted to calling his wife h** not h*** and did not think there was any thing worng with it.

Get over yourself! I use h** and h*** depending on context. Oh and as from conversing with people from Ulster about h** - did you miss the bit where I said my wife is from Ulster. Her and all her family are 'good' Ulstermen (women) - and not one of them is bothered by the term.

[Briton 394]

You go and find evidence to back up my statement of fact' is a ludicrous position to take. Seeing as you are so knowledgable about the Primrose years then it should be a simple matter to explain the evidence for him stamping a Protestant identity on our club.

Why ? Cant you be bothered to do it for yourself ?

Why is it ludicrous ? Can you prove it ? What evidence do you have ?

Are you serious? You made a statement of fact, not I.

[Briton 394]

Well I am being honest.

I don't know exactly what Ure Primroses' influence on the Club was.

IIRC he became 'Club Patron' in 1888 and Chairman in 1912.

Given his high profile in Orangeism/ Unionism it seems to me that the Club must have been at least leaning that way by 1888.

Can anyone provide evidence to the contrary?

Well obviously you can never prove a negative and nobody is required to provide evidence to counter any claim. While I wouldn't be surprised if Rangers were leaning that way by the time he became chairman, there is no evidence that Rangers were linked to Orangeism/ Unionism, or regarded as a 'Protestant club', before the formation of Celtic.

[Briton 394]

You go and find evidence to back up my statement of fact' is a ludicrous position to take. Seeing as you are so knowledgable about the Primrose years then it should be a simple matter to explain the evidence for him stamping a Protestant identity on our club.

Why ? Cant you be bothered to do it for yourself ?

Why is it ludicrous ? Can you prove it ? What evidence do you have ?

I can't believe you are entertaining that comedian.

Mr 'Look at me' is a reject of some sort, I just haven't gathered what yet

Neither can I Jim...

Still... perhaps despite the high public profile mentioned by M....and his strong anti-catholic views....the policy he introduced to the club of not signing catholic players....perhaps its unreasonable to suggest he stamped a Protestant idenity on the club.

Heaven knows what he would think about the comments in 1967 by Chairman Matt Taylor....

"part of our tradition....we were formed in 1873 as a Protestant boys club."

I'll tell you what I think of Taylor's statement...there is no reason whatsoever to believe that we were formed for any purpose other than as a football club, and every Rangers historian will back that up.

[edranger 0]

How dare you call any one else extreme when you use the racist word h** to your wife who comes from N.Ireland. Thats why most people treat you with the contempt you deserve BP9.

Now.....[takes deep breath]....this goes against the grain somewhat, and i may have to take a shower in a minute, but............

In defence of Bluepeter9 (btw,anyone who uses this as a screenshot or signature can expect big trouble! ) , i am assuming (without bothering to ask) that his use of the term "h***" to his wife is merely shortening the term honey or suchlike. I occasionally speak to an old school girlfriend of mine who calls me that and, as i know the context it is said in, it bothers me not. She was/is a bluenose.

If we are going to castigate Bluepeter9 (and let's face it, we should), at least do it for valid reasons, such as his ridiculous views.

I am surprised at some of the people who have used this particular stick to beat BP9. There are so many bigger, better sticks lying around. Some with nails in too.

You need to look at back threads WVB where some one was done in court and found guiltyof calling a Rangers fan a h**, he came on to the thread and admitted to calling his wife h** not h*** and did not think there was any thing worng with it.

Get over yourself! I use h** and h*** depending on context. Oh and as from conversing with people from Ulster about h** - did you miss the bit where I said my wife is from Ulster. Her and all her family are 'good' Ulstermen (women) - and not one of them is bothered by the term.

That's the thing about relatives they tend to give fools a pardon it seems so in your case.

[minstral 5,375]

just read this article about primrose.

Religious rivalry

Strong sectarian rivalry still exists in certain sectors of the population, largely as a result of mass immigration to the city from Ireland in the 19th Century. The sporting rivalry between the supporters of Celtic and Rangers has an underlying religious basis for some people. Large numbers of Celtic Supporters are drawn from the Irish and Roman Catholic communities, while Rangers supporters are almost exclusively non-Catholics. This division dates from Rangers' policy to not sign Catholics as players after John Ure Primrose took over as Chairman of the club. Primrose was a noted Unionist politician and has been described as a "bigot". This practice continued at the club for 76 years until 1988. Celtic never adopted such a policy, hence a somewhat more diverse support.

[Briton 394]

I can't believe you are entertaining that comedian.

Mr 'Look at me' is a reject of some sort, I just haven't gathered what yet

Grow up and dry your eyes sonny. I assume from the childish remarks you've got nothing of interest to add to the discussion...that being the case why not stay out of it rather than just post inane gibberish driven by your pathetic rancor over some previous discussion?

[Briton 394]

just read this article about primrose.

Religious rivalry

Strong sectarian rivalry still exists in certain sectors of the population, largely as a result of mass immigration to the city from Ireland in the 19th Century. The sporting rivalry between the supporters of Celtic and Rangers has an underlying religious basis for some people. Large numbers of Celtic Supporters are drawn from the Irish and Roman Catholic communities, while Rangers supporters are almost exclusively non-Catholics. This division dates from Rangers' policy to not sign Catholics as players after John Ure Primrose took over as Chairman of the club. Primrose was a noted Unionist politician and has been described as a "bigot". This practice continued at the club for 76 years until 1988. Celtic never adopted such a policy, hence a somewhat more diverse support.

That would tie in with what most historians have said. That this situation arose around the time of WWI.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

How dare you call any one else extreme when you use the racist word h** to your wife who comes from N.Ireland. Thats why most people treat you with the contempt you deserve BP9.

Now.....[takes deep breath]....this goes against the grain somewhat, and i may have to take a shower in a minute, but............

In defence of Bluepeter9 (btw,anyone who uses this as a screenshot or signature can expect big trouble! ) , i am assuming (without bothering to ask) that his use of the term "h***" to his wife is merely shortening the term honey or suchlike. I occasionally speak to an old school girlfriend of mine who calls me that and, as i know the context it is said in, it bothers me not. She was/is a bluenose.

If we are going to castigate Bluepeter9 (and let's face it, we should), at least do it for valid reasons, such as his ridiculous views.

I am surprised at some of the people who have used this particular stick to beat BP9. There are so many bigger, better sticks lying around. Some with nails in too.

You need to look at back threads WVB where some one was done in court and found guiltyof calling a Rangers fan a h**, he came on to the thread and admitted to calling his wife h** not h*** and did not think there was any thing worng with it.

Get over yourself! I use h** and h*** depending on context. Oh and as from conversing with people from Ulster about h** - did you miss the bit where I said my wife is from Ulster. Her and all her family are 'good' Ulstermen (women) - and not one of them is bothered by the term.

That's the thing about relatives they tend to give fools a pardon it seems so in your case.

Well pardon me !!