Rick Roberts - Troublesome tribalism: does it matter who asks the questions?

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

19 minutes ago, The Dude said:

So why isnt there the same clamour for punishment? Where are the calls for Chelsea to be shut down? 

And there you go, you’ve been told we want a full enquiry of all scottish clubs and you jump away to another country. 

Whataboutery at its best. 

[backup 4,724]

27 minutes ago, The Dude said:

An enquiry wouldnt have any power to punish celtic unless it was done under the auspices of the Scottish FA

A private prosecution if successful would, following on the sfa would then be duty bound as well as morally bound to act, failure by them to do so could also see them  prosecuted for aiding and abetting a convicted party.

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, Courtyard Bear said:

And there you go, you’ve been told we want a full enquiry of all scottish clubs and you jump away to another country. 

Whataboutery at its best. 

So not an enquiy of the entire alleged peadophile ring?

[The Dude 20,026]

Just now, backup said:

A private prosecution if successful would, following on the sfa would then be duty bound as well as morally bound to act, failure by them to do so could also see them  prosecuted for aiding and abetting a convicted party.

A private prosecution would, although to the best of my understanding there's no method for that to impose sporting sanctions such as point deductions, registration bans etc.

[The Dude 20,026]

7 minutes ago, Courtyard Bear said:

You come on every thread about this scandal and deflect from the discussion with your whataboutery. 

Pretty simple logic right there. 

Well the Scottish FA has a great track record of over punishing a member club before they are even found guilty or innocent, so punishing a club that is bang to rights shouldn’t be too hard for them. 

 

To the point there were found unlawful in the court of session. 

[backup 4,724]

2 minutes ago, The Dude said:

To the point there were found unlawful in the court of session. 

The CoS is a civil court, these are criminal matters.

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

6 minutes ago, The Dude said:

So not an enquiy of the entire alleged peadophile ring?

Whit?????

if you’re harping on about cross border then that is up Holyrood and Westminster. 

But a full enquiry of all scottish clubs is a good start. 

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

4 minutes ago, The Dude said:

To the point there were found unlawful in the court of session. 

Well Scum FC can try their luck there as well if they don’t like being treated like the scum they are. 

I’m sure they would, after all they take no responsibility for any of the raped young boys. 

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, backup said:

The CoS is a civil court, these are criminal matters.

Nobody suggested any different.

[The Dude 20,026]

2 minutes ago, Courtyard Bear said:

Whit?????

if you’re harping on about cross border then that is up Holyrood and Westminster. 

But a full enquiry of all scottish clubs is a good start. 

There's been one into all Scottish clubs done by the Scottish FA (as you appear to want)

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, Courtyard Bear said:

Well Scum FC can try their luck there as well if they don’t like being treated like the scum they are. 

I’m sure they would, after all they take no responsibility for any of the raped young boys. 

1

It seems to be a common trend with football clubs.

[backup 4,724]

2 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Nobody suggested any different.

The CoS is irrelevant in this matter.

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

2 minutes ago, The Dude said:

There's been one into all Scottish clubs done by the Scottish FA (as you appear to want)

😂😂 aye that won’t a whitewash at all. 

As the SFA would also be under investigation, it would need to be an outside enquiry. 

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

3 minutes ago, The Dude said:

It seems to be a common trend with football clubs.

Then punish them. 

[The Dude 20,026]

Just now, backup said:

The CoS is irrelevant in this matter.

You seem to have misread a very simple post.

CB had reference the punishments the SFA gave us in 2012. Those are the ones referenced. Any punishment issued by the Scottish FA would almost certainly be a civil matter unless celtic as a corporate entity was prosecuted.

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, Courtyard Bear said:

😂😂 aye that won’t a whitewash at all. 

As the SFA would also be under investigation, it would need to be an outside enquiry. 

So who does the outside enquiry?

It's been readily available to read on their website for a year (with one final section still to be released)

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,722]

Thread seems to have gone off at a tangent. Tribalism for me doesn't exist to a hatred of Thistle, Hivs, Chelsea or Hutchie vale. That's not to say I wouldnt also want and expect them to be punished for their wrongs. But in a tribal context, nah its understandable we want the scum punished more. A good blog being derailed by a blogger who hasn't even commented on the topic. Probably jealousy 🤔

[backup 4,724]

Just now, The Dude said:

You seem to have misread a very simple post.

CB had reference the punishments the SFA gave us in 2012. Those are the ones referenced. Any punishment issued by the Scottish FA would almost certainly be a civil matter unless celtic as a corporate entity was prosecuted.

Very simply this is a criminal matter, the sfa and the CoS have no jurisdiction, the Crown Office and the PF are custodians of jurisprudence in this matter. 

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

So who does the outside enquiry?

It's been readily available to read on their website for a year (with one final section still to be released)

That would be up to Holyrood, they managed to set one up for all children in care so they can do it. 

Wonder why they don’t want to do it for the hundreds of children that only wanted to play football. 

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

1 minute ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

Thread seems to have gone off at a tangent. Tribalism for me doesn't exist to a hatred of Thistle, Hivs, Chelsea or Hutchie vale. That's not to say I wouldnt also want and expect them to be punished for their wrongs. But in a tribal context, nah its understandable we want the scum punished more. A good blog being derailed by a blogger who hasn't even commented on the topic. Probably jealousy 🤔

Does make you wonder does it not. 

[The Dude 20,026]

2 minutes ago, backup said:

Very simply this is a criminal matter, the sfa and the CoS have no jurisdiction, the Crown Office and the PF are custodians of jurisprudence in this matter. 

Again, nobody has said anything different. You're trying to prove your intelligence by incorrectly correcting a post. 

Nobody has suggested that anyone other the COPFS are in control.

[Bad Robot 21,150]

31 minutes ago, The Dude said:

So why isnt there the same clamour for punishment? Where are the calls for Chelsea to be shut down? 

VentyFour already answered which I also quoted and now you’ve added another country on to try and validate your argument.

To repeat no other Scottish clubs have links to multiple convictions and more likely a ring.

An enquiry needs to happen by the govt and possibly the UK Govt due to the possible cross border issues and further investigations by the UK Police services.

The focus should be on celtic with it expanded out to include any clubs with convictions and also to review the credibility of clubs were there have been allegations e.g. Hibs, Rangers etc.

The current civil claims should be alllowed to take its course but unsure in the legalities and what information sharing is permitted.

The SFA should certainly be investigating but again the above process need to be taking into consideration which may affect on how fast the SFA can progress plus there’s the cross border issues (clubs, police, associations etc.) which adds more complexities to it, and possibly anything else USA related.

All of the above requires to be addressed before there is even a discussion on sporting sanctions but it will take the government/ legal minds to untangle this complex subject.

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, Courtyard Bear said:

That would be up to Holyrood, they managed to set one up for all children in care so they can do it. 

Wonder why they don’t want to do it for the hundreds of children that only wanted to play football. 

 

They can. But they'd have no power to issue any points sanctions, registration bans etc.

Tbf, I get why they havent simply thrown the ongoing care enquiry in with football. They are far too different to simply go under a catch-all.

 

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, Bad Robot said:

VentyFour already answered which I also quoted and now you’ve added another country on to try and validate your argument.

To repeat no other Scottish clubs have links to multiple convictions and more likely a ring.

An enquiry needs to happen by the govt and possibly the UK Govt due to the possible cross border issues and further investigations by the UK Police services.

The focus should be on celtic with it expanded out to include any clubs with convictions and also to review the credibility of clubs were there have been allegations e.g. Hibs, Rangers etc.

The current civil claims should be alllowed to take its course but unsure in the legalities and what information sharing is permitted.

The SFA should certainly be investigating but again the above process need to be taking into consideration which may affect on how fast the SFA can progress plus there’s the cross border issues (clubs, police, associations etc.) which adds more complexities to it, and possibly anything else USA related.

All of the above requires to be addressed before there is even a discussion on sporting sanctions but it will take the government/ legal minds to untangle this complex subject.

So it's only multiple convictions that matter?

You do know Hibs have links to multiple convicted child sex offenders? 

Shouldn't the focus be on the offenders themselves who have been identified at (iirc) 15 different Scottish football clubs rather than simply ignoring 14 clubs only to focus on one? Do those victims not deserve justice because they wore a different colour of kit?

The Scottish FA have conducted an inquiry, It was published last year - with one section held back pending conclusion of ongoing criminal cases. 

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

Just now, The Dude said:

They can. But they'd have no power to issue any points sanctions, registration bans etc.

Tbf, I get why they havent simply thrown the ongoing care enquiry in with football. They are far too different to simply go under a catch-all.

 

I can agree on the last part. 

But after going down the historical abuse enquiry then they have to look at all historical abuse or they simply saying that one abuse is worse than another. 

The first part, any enquiry should lead to criminal prosecution. If the criminality  is of such a level then bringing the game into disrepute should apply and sanctions imposed by the SFA those should include a scale of fines, points penalties and demotion to a lower league