17 Pages of Discussion of the RST Shananigans

[opportunityknox 1]

Yes, it’s important to those interested in the concept of Supporter representation and ownership, but I’m struggling as to how the various issues raised can be resolved in time to address the real issues at the club, i.e. the continued presence of the Lloyds Banking Group, and their management of the club’s finances.

The Trust do not appear to be in a position to pressure Lloyds at present over their disproportionately severe management of our finances. Whose “fault” it is, is completely irrelevant at this time, as we need to forget our differences, forget who did this and who did that, and turn in unison together, as one, to face the real enemy, who isn’t a current RST board member, or a past RST board member.

Forget your allegiances to Rangers Media, Follow Follow, Vanguard Bears, Gersnet etc, and forget your issues with whichever one of said websites you may like to bitch about. What we need to do is find a banner of unity somewhere and fight the enemy of Lloyds Banking Group in Scotland.

Let’s not waste time talking about a few well meaning, or egotistical power mad Rangers fans (depending on who you listen to), but about the people destructing the fabric of our club from a very powerful position.

Focus on them then return to the wrangling later, if you so desire, once the enemy has been removed from Ibrox Stadium.

If you agree, then let’s hear the ideas to move forward.

If you wish to attack me or VB, then feel free, as it will achieve nothing other than getting some aggression out of your system.

I’m not speaking on behalf of VB, but just speak from the heart

If you wish to carry on bickering, then go ahead, but be aware, that in your own way, you too are killing the club.

If I may be as cheeky to plagiarise a Trust motto, then from now on it should be “Rangers First”

Yours, handing the floor over,

Opportunity Knox

[gunslinger 270]

count me in.

no loyalties or differences here.

[Orangeclement 574]

Is there something I've missed about the Lloyds thing? They way I see it, they're just getting their money back, whilst we still remain competitive on the field. I'm more than happy to be proved wrong, that's just what I've gathered from the situation without looking into it a great deal

From the little scraps us ordinary joes get it seems something darker is going on within Lloyds banking group but no exact details as yet .......

[Adoniram 1,919]

And me.

Despite all the mud slinging and general crap i would sit round the table with anyone if it was for the greater good of Rangers FC.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

17 pages.

Can anyone sum up in one paragraph what's happened?

What I took from it (skim reading)

They made a ten grand loss.

At the AGM the secretary wanted to make an announcement/speech, which wasn't allowed as it wasn't vetted and he stormed out.

Something to do with Mark Dingwall owing them money for tables at a function.

They have lots of money left from a Gerssave scheme, which now isn't being persued as a project.

What else? and/or have I got the above wrong?

[Frankie 505]

I'm all for placing pressure wherever it is required be it morally bankrupt fan reps, almost bankrupt banks and, erm, a club which has made unfulfilled promises...

Of course it is difficult to focus said pressure without at least one fully functioning fan group. Pressure has to go beyond online communities and reach a fanbase which, to be blunt, couldn't give a flying fuck.

There is the club AGM in a few weeks though. That is one place where even a small number of like-minded bears can make their point very clear.

[Frankie 505]

17 pages.

Can anyone sum up in one paragraph what's happened?

What I took from it (skim reading)

They made a ten grand loss.

At the AGM the secretary wanted to make an announcement/speech, which wasn't allowed as it wasn't vetted and he stormed out.

Something to do with Mark Dingwall owing them money for tables at a function.

They have lots of money left from a Gerssave scheme, which now isn't being persued as a project.

What else? and/or have I got the above wrong?

That isn't far off but you'd be better reading that thread which has a different agenda to this one...

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

That isn't far off but you'd be better reading that thread which has a different agenda to this one...

Fair comment

[MisterC 12,377]

I agree with this entirely and have made my views clear many times in that and other threads, so I wont repeat what I have said previously.

[jimgers 565]

Is there something I've missed about the Lloyds thing? They way I see it, they're just getting their money back, whilst we still remain competitive on the field. I'm more than happy to be proved wrong, that's just what I've gathered from the situation without looking into it a great deal

It's mostly rumours and Chinese whispers at the moment but it would seam the guy or people with the their collective boots on our throats, did have an agenda against our club as alluded to in David Leggat's article. The cabal within Lloyd's and handling our loan have been unnecessary harsh with our club, so much so Sir David Murry had to step in and sort them out. Now some can argue their actions were normal banking practise when dealing with a client with substantial loans, however the severity of the impositions put on our club did seam to some more personal than just business practise...allegedly.

[McWeedy 28]

Does RST have any significant power or influence for us to care?

[ScotBear 144]

Does RST have any significant power or influence for us to care?

Nope, and it's been a joke organisation from start to finish in my opinion.

I started off as a supporter who was very interested and excited by what the Trust might be able to offer the support. But I quickly found that they were unable to give straight answers to questions and their general lack of communication and the attitude of their seemingly more high profile members was a joke, and often very aggressive in tone.

So I didn't part with my money and thank god I didn't, because since then it's been one shambles after another. Yeah, they've done some good, but I'd expect that of any fans group that takes in large sums of money......every so often you're going to be able to do something positive unless you're off the scale in terms of incompetence. Of course, I don't doubt there have been some very good and capable fans involved, but largely, it's been one enormous failure that never looked like taking off or winning the 'trust', for want of another word, of the wide support.

were good for a tasty soundbite, so the tabloids kept going to them. The RST has been lucky it's had so much media coverage considering the tiny amount of members (particular when you consider this curious business of the difference between 'members' and 'active members' to boost figures)they actually have.

They have decent support on-line, but the reality is the RST has just been one big embarrasment that the club and the wider support have been desperate to shake off. I personally hope the Trust now just withers away. Hopefully a more capable body where those in influential positions have the club as opposed to their own interests at heart can rise out of the ashes.

[mcowano 0]

I am interested in discussing this "enemy" that is Lloyds Banking Group.

At one point the season before last, we were just short of £14m in overdraft of a £15m limit not withstanding the £20m long term loan we owed them.

Lloyds told Rangers they would not increase our overdraft nor sanction any more loans until we could prove we could manage our finances within the agreed limits.

Last November, overdraft renewal time, they could have easily said we are reducing your limit to £10m or £5m but they never. This November, they could do the same. but they wont.

Our £13m reduction in debt this year whilst winning the league and cup double can in part be put down to Lloyds saying "no more lending" which to be fair to them, seems sensible to me.

One thing is for sure. We are now better off for it.

Tin hat on.

[opportunityknox 1]

Nope, and it's been a joke organisation from start to finish in my opinion.

I started off as a supporter who was very interested and excited by what the Trust might be able to offer the support. But I quickly found that they were unable to give straight answers to questions and their general lack of communication and the attitude of their seemingly more high profile members was a joke, and often very aggressive in tone.

So I didn't part with my money and thank god I didn't, because since then it's been one shambles after another. Yeah, they've done some good, but I'd expect that of any fans group that takes in large sums of money......every so often you're going to be able to do something positive unless you're off the scale in terms of incompetence. Of course, I don't doubt there have been some very good and capable fans involved, but largely, it's been one enormous failure that never looked like taking off or winning the 'trust', for want of another word, of the wide support.

were good for a tasty soundbite, so the tabloids kept going to them. The RST has been lucky it's had so much media coverage considering the tiny amount of members (particular when you consider this curious business of the difference between 'members' and 'active members' to boost figures)they actually have.

They have decent support on-line, but the reality is the RST has just been one big embarrasment that the club and the wider support have been desperate to shake off. I personally hope the Trust now just withers away. Hopefully a more capable body where those in influential positions have the club as opposed to their own interests at heart can rise out of the ashes.

I'd suggest you read the post above, or go and take your grievances to the RST thread.

Frankie is right. There needs to be a co-ordinated attack on Lloyds on the 18th, and through the very media outlet BEFORE the 18th.

No posturing, No Grand standing, and no bitching from now on please from anyone. And anyone is welcome to post this on FF.

Get Lloyds worried.

That should be the message, and we need to do it together

I'd not even suggesting any particular group lead it, but something needs to be done outside of the processes of the Trust, and mudslinging by "both" sides (whether there's truths or untruths out there)is helping no one.

I couldn't care less who "does it", or who takes credit but I want the filth within the Lloyds organisation away from our club.

[opportunityknox 1]

Incidentally Scotbear, did you once have that user name on Follow Follow?

[trevelyan 44]

I have a sore head reading all this stuff in the last few days and am amazed that someone like yourself is prepared

to try, try and try again to achieve some sort of unity. who gets involved in all this should see a councillor before hand. Anyway deal me in

[GeneralCartmanLee 313]

in our yearly accounts it stated Lloyds had provisionally agreed to extend our current banking arrangement for another year after it experies on 31st december.

I wouldn't say that was an unreasonable action ?

Clearly you guys have some knowledge about the people making the decisions at lloyds, i look forward to when you decide to share this and we can discuss further(or maybe you have and i missed it)

[opportunityknox 1]

I am interested in discussing this "enemy" that is Lloyds Banking Group.

At one point the season before last, we were just short of £14m in overdraft of a £15m limit not withstanding the £20m long term loan we owed them.

Lloyds told Rangers they would not increase our overdraft nor sanction any more loans until we could prove we could manage our finances within the agreed limits.

Last November, overdraft renewal time, they could have easily said we are reducing your limit to £10m or £5m but they never. This November, they could do the same. but they wont.

Our £13m reduction in debt this year whilst winning the league and cup double can in part be put down to Lloyds saying "no more lending" which to be fair to them, seems sensible to me.

One thing is for sure. We are now better off for it.

Tin hat on.

We would be better off without certain individuals within Lloyds holding the purse strings of Rangers Football Club for a managable debt that doesn't warrant direct intervention on all significant transactions.

Our reduction in debt is down to Rangers winning the league and Qualifying for the Champions League. If Walter Smith hadn't managed the almost miraculous feat of winning the league with such a small squad last season, then the club would have had to raise £16M to just be in the position we are now.

Your £13M Debt reduction figure conflicts with the officially released figures (up to June this year), which tells me that you are far closer to this than you are letting on. Given that I understand Rangers debt to currently sit around £20M; the figures tie up.

So, which Celtic Minded Lloyds "man" are you?

[McWeedy 28]

I'd suggest you read the post above, or go and take your grievances to the RST thread.

Frankie is right. There needs to be a co-ordinated attack on Lloyds on the 18th, and through the very media outlet BEFORE the 18th.

No posturing, No Grand standing, and no bitching from now on please from anyone. And anyone is welcome to post this on FF.

Get Lloyds worried.

That should be the message, and we need to do it together

I'd not even suggesting any particular group lead it, but something needs to be done outside of the processes of the Trust, and mudslinging by "both" sides (whether there's truths or untruths out there)is helping no one.

I couldn't care less who "does it", or who takes credit but I want the filth within the Lloyds organisation away from our club.

So what does a "coordinated attack" consist of? Complaining to the media that the bank want their money back?

It's a legitimate question btw, I'm not just having a pop at RST.

[opportunityknox 1]

So what does a "coordinated attack" consist of? Complaining to the media that the bank want their money back?

It's a legitimate question btw, I'm not just having a pop at RST.

1 After seeing the negativity here already, I'd suggest that should be kept private, ie off public forums

2 No

The only anti Trust statement here is from a poster who looks a tad suspicious to me.

Without going in to detail on a public forum, I'd have expected the "scotbear" I remember to have the opposite view, which is currently ringing alarm bells.

[covert 0]

Yes, it’s important to those interested in the concept of Supporter representation and ownership, but I’m struggling as to how the various issues raised can be resolved in time to address the real issues at the club, i.e. the continued presence of the Lloyds Banking Group, and their management of the club’s finances.

The Trust do not appear to be in a position to pressure Lloyds at present over their disproportionately severe management of our finances. Whose “fault” it is, is completely irrelevant at this time, as we need to forget our differences, forget who did this and who did that, and turn in unison together, as one, to face the real enemy, who isn’t a current RST board member, or a past RST board member.

Forget your allegiances to Rangers Media, Follow Follow, Vanguard Bears, Gersnet etc, and forget your issues with whichever one of said websites you may like to bitch about. What we need to do is find a banner of unity somewhere and fight the enemy of Lloyds Banking Group in Scotland.

Let’s not waste time talking about a few well meaning, or egotistical power mad Rangers fans (depending on who you listen to), but about the people destructing the fabric of our club from a very powerful position.

Focus on them then return to the wrangling later, if you so desire, once the enemy has been removed from Ibrox Stadium.

If you agree, then let’s hear the ideas to move forward.

If you wish to attack me or VB, then feel free, as it will achieve nothing other than getting some aggression out of your system.

I’m not speaking on behalf of VB, but just speak from the heart

If you wish to carry on bickering, then go ahead, but be aware, that in your own way, you too are killing the club.

If I may be as cheeky to plagiarise a Trust motto, then from now on it should be “Rangers First”

Yours, handing the floor over,

Opportunity Knox

Once the enemy , who ever that may be has been removed, what then, is there a plan of action waiting to be implemented, or just more tilting at windmills.

[GeneralCartmanLee 313]

Pretty sure scotbear is a rangers man ffs.....

[ScotBear 144]

Incidentally Scotbear, did you once have that user name on Follow Follow?

No, been asked that a few times on here now ! I don't post on Follow Follow. When I did it wasn't under the name ScotBear.

With regards to the attack on Lloyds, like someone else said, that just doesn't sound like a good idea to me at all. What are we attacking them for ? Sounds about as bright an idea as the 'Donald Muir enemy within' guff.

Would be interested to read opinions and details of why and how we'd do this though.

[Adoniram 1,919]

No, been asked that a few times on here now ! I don't post on Follow Follow. When I did it wasn't under the name ScotBear.

With regards to the attack on Lloyds, like someone else said, that just doesn't sound like a good idea to me at all. What are we attacking them for ? Sounds about as bright an idea as the 'Donald Muir enemy within' guff.

Would be interested to read opinions and details of why and how we'd do this though.

I think everyone will know soon enough.

[McWeedy 28]

1 After seeing the negativity here already, I'd suggest that should be kept private, ie off public forums

2 No

The only anti Trust statement here is from a poster who looks a tad suspicious to me.

Without going in to detail on a public forum, I'd have expected the "scotbear" I remember to have the opposite view, which is currently ringing alarm bells.

It is fair enough that action should be kept quiet if it is to be successful but I am still sceptical of what RST could actually do. If it's positive then good luck to you.

I don't know Scotbear but I don't think it's right to insist anyone that disagrees with yourself or RST is a tim or has a hidden agenda. People have different views and come on forums like this to discuss them.