THE_Ibrox_Preacher

Quality cough anyone needs it.

Given's horses in the opener look overpriced - on paper Mightaswellsmile can take Four Dragons (should be clear fav as it has a dose of lbs advantage over Hot Hannah this time having already beat it) by a couple of lengths, only slight negative is Eaves is on Street Jazz (the other Given horse) and that one looks as though it has a time in it that's in the frame at least. Four Dragons has beat Mightaswellsmile twice but by at most 2L and the given horse is 10lb better off than one of those now. So Mightaswellsmile should be able to take the clear paper winner and Street Jazz should be every bit as good if not better. Both are double figure odds and to me that's worth split stakes e/w or perhaps a forecast/bet-without-favs or something. Edit: Result 1st) Four Dragons 5-1 2nd) Father McKenzie 9-2 3rd) Street Jazz 8-1

Mine are for later on but I fancy a small e/w on Bako De La Saulaie in the next.

You fancy picking one each and going for a small e/w double or something? If yer rooked and should bow out then don't, but if you have a sky diver and fancy a bit of fun I'm game.

good shout mate, wish i had the form to have done more with it but i stuck it in a couple of lines, cheers!

The season isn't a write off as you say, it is if "you" genuinely felt we would run away with the league title but we could turn it around and finish the season with 2nd and silverware (merely 1 possible scenario). I see plenty of positives in our players and play and I genuinely don't think we're far away from dishing out a good hiding/lesson to the vast majority of sides on any given day. The issue, however, to me is that the manager refuses to change direction in the face of the same problems weekly or is incapable of using the talented squad he's amassed (or something along the lines of that statement). When stretching for a magic bullet to describe the problem we say 'arrogance' or 'naivety' on the managers part but one is needless/costly and the other suggests he's not up to the job. I'd love to avoid having to bring in a new manager, I'd far rather we decided on a new course, a first 11 of performers, and set about it in training with a run of wins on the back of it all; the question, however, is what do you see happening?, not what you'd like to happen but what you actually see; in this regard I am coming to expect basically the same issues every single game and as such I don't know where the cut off point for tolerance is. To be fair to Warburton I don't believe he's far away but it seems like he will stick with what doesn't work, won't give what works a chance, has us pinning a team in their box when we need to score but had us wide open when we need to defend, has players playing who shouldn't be etc. etc. If it's all part of a clever masterplan it's fooling the shit out of me. Even if Mr Warburton said "I know we could attack a team with quick counters and walk out comfortable winners but what I'm trying to do is bigger than that, it's not going to be plain sailing but for the years ahead it's instrumental" (unlikely but then I'd have something to hold onto bar doubts in his ability). I just don't see what we'll "learn from that" because it doesn't appear we learned from it last time or the time before that. I know it's negative but I can't be the only one to think we've benched better performers and played better performers out of position to suit players and a system which hasn't been working?! It's almost as though we're on a leash to stop us from taking a team apart.

? I have no idea what you are referring to. I'll be a bit more civil towards yourself than you are to me but are you sure you have the right person?

I'm sorry but this has been going on since before our embarrassing cup final display, so he should be out the door for me. He's had ample opportunity and resources at his disposal to make light work of all bar them and he's been coming up short in every aspect bar possession since about March. The players change and the positions are all over the shop yet the same play continues and we're the only team churning it out - how does that happen if it isn't by the managers design? I firmly believe we have good enough players for all bar them and that's even with the refusal to sign the required CB in the Summer. We are simply playing the way the manager has created and it's making it hard for ourselves with frankly no evident progress against even the poorest sides. If this were any other season and any other manager we'd have been far more on Mr Warburton's back by now. We get pumped off them and we've responded with a win against QOTS out of 3 and our latest defeat is to another of our most bitter rivals - at what point do you take off the blue tints and acknowledge that the same problems are there week in week out? I can see in my own mind how little we need to change to dismantle teams but if the manager refuses to do so with bad result after bad result then what alternative is there to sacking him? We set up to fail with a lot of possession and that is exactly what we're achieving.

In a season where we are meant to be sending a message of intent and stating that we're back, we are giving everyone an extra good laugh on a weekly basis. Enough for me, since before the Cup final this has been going on. There isn't a player to scapegoat for any of this; it's the manager's show and it's unacceptable, I would go further and tear into King but Warburton knew what he was doing when he said he was happy with shopping in the English leagues.

In a season where we are meant to be sending a message of intent and stating that we're back, we are giving everyone an extra good laugh on a weekly basis. Enough for me, since before the Cup final this has been going on. There isn't a player to scapegoat for any of this; it's the manager's show and it's unacceptable, I would go further and tear into King but Warburton knew what he was doing when he said he was happy with shopping in the English leagues.

We've hit the crossroads; Cut our losses or grin and bear it until it's fixed. The simple fact of the matter is that the only thing Warburton's selections know how to do is a plan that doesn't work or they can't play. We have the players to attack with pace and directness, hit shots from everywhere, multiple options for each position and a bench of solutions BUT crucially if you asked the players to change it at this stage they'll revert into the slow passing play that allows the opposition to pack the box and at that point we've got nothing to overcome it. This plan came unstuck in the Championship and our run is embarrassing; I may not think the manager was given enough resources to go for the title but we have far in excess of everyone else outwith them. The managers got it wrong and he's getting it wrong, so where do we go from here? I return to the question, do we cut our losses or sit it out and hope the manager starts getting the plan, formation, tactics, selections, subs etc. etc. right?

This is the kind of game where he'll likely score a great goal and send us on our way. I'd go as far as to say it's a cert that regardless of performance, he'll score tonight.

I do know what you mean but in honesty we're engineered this mess for ourselves (the injury wouldn't be further indication of something curse like if it were not for all the things happening that could have been avoided or rectified).

Playing O'Halloran through the middle and playing quick through balls past Toure for the boy to run onto would be probably our most lethal attack. If you watch us you'll see that we pin teams into their own box and create and take nothing as a result, too many bodies and not enough brilliance; instead of doing that when we need a goal we should employ my first idea, get the goals, then unleash the "attack" that we've been seeing for months as it truly is our best defense until we sign Amo. I know that's 2 but I'll combine them into 1 if any of you have a problem with it, I do honestly feel we've did everything back to front and made it difficult for ourselves this season and for the chunk of last season. Game against them will tell us if it's a cunning plan or that the truth has been in front of us all along.

Allow me to attempt to clarify what's happening; We were told from the end of last season to the start of this one that we were "extra prepared by getting our transfers done early", the reality however, is that we started the season unfit and unready struggling in all of our league games, dropped more points against the bottom 6 than we'll gain by BEATING celtic. We have started the season with exactly the same problems that were there for the vast majority of last season. Mr King and his supporters promised serious personal investment by him to 'take us back to where we belong', 10's of millions promised and instead what we've signed is players generally who either haven't played above League 1 in England or who have failed to cut it above that level (alternatively there are those who are past being able to play at that level). 'High standards not being met'? You mean high standards like beating Hamilton at home on our return to the top flight on a day that was meant to be our message of intent? like beating 10 man Killie? like not having to huff and puff past Motherwell and Dundee? Like not going 1 down to 3 out of 4 teams? Like starting the season with the CB we knew we needed almost immediately into the Championship season? It's not that we're premature in talking like we won't meet them, it's that we've bit our tongue on not actually meeting them and now people are saying what they think without fear of being shot down by the 'we've got our club back and everything is tip top' brigade. I'm not saying that some of the criticism isn't over the top but a lot of the criticism is justified and has been for a period of time that it could have been addressed having received no comment by the support. Player criticism is generally wrong this season imo because the manager should be taking it instead imo. Warburton criticism is justified and I hope for his sake he catches a grip pronto because he's making a Le Guen of this. King is trying to do a Fergus McCann i.e. investing/spending fuck all while selling it as 'going for it' with the intent of banking money and spending it when he has to. Then trying to do a David Murray of spending someone else's money later and taking the credit for it (my opinion and I hope to be proven wrong but that's how I see it). Started the season unbeaten? Are you honestly trying to sell that as a success? We've just played the dross and dropped points in 50% of the games, 1 at home and 1 against 10 men. Our 2 wins were hard work and if not for Misfiring Miller grabbing a goal in the death against Motherwell we'd have 1 win to our name from 4. We've shopped in an over inflated market where genuine talent/ability is thin on the ground and apparently out of our price range, the investment hasn't materialised and the management is either getting it wrong or they've failed to address longstanding problems that were evident in the Championship - that isn't people being pessimistic, that's people taking off the blue-tinted specs of 'We're going for 55' because in truth on what we've seen so far we simply aren't this season. Just for the record I have had the feeling from the start of the league that we've been playing deliberately badly because imo the pieces are there and the ability is there to have ripped the 4 opening games apart like a fucking chicken wing BUT having dropped points in 2 of those games and narrowly avoided doing so against Motherwell it's starting to look like the manager is out of his depth at present. Now if we make the right changes I have no doubt we could at least give them a game and secure 2nd with relative ease but that isn't what was sold to a lot of people (in their eyes at least) and anything less than taking the title will be seen as a betrayal to them I think. Just lastly you question pessimism but it isn't, it's saying what we are seeing in reality for at least 4 months. If we are questioning anything surely it's got to be the optimism that we're going to take the title from them with a manager that seemingly is very one dimensional/unable to address issues and a playing squad where 'cheap' has seemingly been the ruling factor in their signature rather than 'are they better than what the tims have?'. I don't think we should question either for the record - I think we should avoid setting ourselves up for a humiliating fall (i.e. not talking ourselves up beyond what we see before us) and working/supporting towards achieving the goal (winning everything as soon as possible).

I understand why some are underwhelmed/downbeat about this signature but there's no point on shitting on it because If he can head a ball and defend at crosses/set-pieces then he's an improvement on what we have; simple as that.

Illusions that we were sailing close to the wind as some part of a strategy/plan for the Tims or as part of sharpening aspects of our game have to be disintegrating now. We're not good enough to have strange starters, a weak CD, lose a goal, push a team into their own box then score etc. etc. Has to be the last 10-minute intensity from kick-off or it'll be fighting it out for 2nd.

The basic premise was that in this hypothetical, if Hemmings was brought back to the club and scored 25 goals for us having cost 330k that would be considered as well worth it. Especially when the saved fee could be used on a CB. Was Hemmings not plagued by injury at us making his chances very stop start? Could it not be argued that Wallace and McKay failed to set the heather alight in spells of Ally's reign? Would the football standard make a difference (having been promoted)? Under this manager and with our style of play would it be considered that perhaps we'd see a different side to him?....I don't know the man Hemmings viability wasn't really the crux of the point, it was an example of how 25+ goals can be got for a lot less than £1.5M+, Garner may far exceed that and I hope he does, It just occurred to me that it's a bit of a strange one in a lot of ways considering our financial constraints. Certainly, it's something to be considered but then as I mentioned to ForeverBlue there is a host of other factors you could look at if you want to go down that road like; Hemmings is 24, he was 21 when he left - with a decent stint at Cowdenbeath and Dundee, he may have developed more since he was last here. He was plagued by injury as I remember? Ally was the manager and the shape of the team went out the window under him and many players failed to perform including much more experienced players. Mr Warburton is recognised as being someone to get the best out of his players and he's took Forrester to the club despite mumblings about his mentality (I seem to remember he was frozen out at Doncaster?!), perhaps Warburton to get more out of him? 25+ goals in our league obviously doesn't directly correlate to success in a Rangers jersey but then neither does any other strikers record, for argument sake you would make the assumption that our manager and our style of play would get more out of someone that got 25 goals playing for Dundee. If we have Garner, what does that mean for Waghorn? Miller? Would Hemmings price tag not make more sense considering each forward still has something to offer? The money saved.....CB Obviously personal traits, mentality, how they would work with other players etc etc. all come into decision making regarding which player to sign and a lot more could yet be considered. The point was merely that considering what Hemmings cost as a 25 goal forward, Garner is quite a purchase price, especially when you consider the mantra of 'value', our seemingly tight financial constraints (you know what I mean, it's tighter than just about every year in the top flight since 1989?! maybe a few years after (only 30). He does seem to have a better head on him that most though and that's something I've been asking for.

If we change our style to not pin the opposition (or allow them to fall back to a back 10 *whatever way you want to put it*) back into their own box while looking for goals then I think we'll get a good number of goals out of him. Against Motherwell it's as though he was on the pitch and all the players and management could see him bar us, cross after cross into the box for him to stick the head on it and obviously no one was there. That service combined with his presence will mean goals you'd assume. He gives us an aerial threat and we've been crying out for it, whether or not at 5 foot 10" he can stick the head on it against our big 'heid the baw' CB's we'll have to wait and see but on paper he's one of the better headers of a ball up front from the Championship and below (not much competition on that aspect of the game to be honest but if you're looking for that attribute from that market then he's about the best around). If there's any truth in the fee I feel we've pushed ourselves on the wrong player because CB is a problem and we could have picked up Hemmings for £330k for his 25-goals-a-season and put the saved money in defense (even if that's galling you can see the sense in it, why pay £1.8M for a 28 year old with no sell on value who'll get you 20+ goals, maybe, when you can get 25+ goals for 330k?!). If we adapt with this man up front (as with everyone else) so that we're more direct/cutting/fast-paced then we will see the quality difference between ourselves and everyone else (bar the Tims as like it or not they are a cut above everyone else as it stands). Good luck to the man.

Writing Kenny off as being 'done' is over the score and I don't say that because of today or even last week, I say that because in my view he's looked like he's been struggling to get up to speed in "pre-season" along with about half a dozen others in total despite the weekly rhetoric of 'having the new players in so early means we'll be extra ready'. My assumption, therefore, is that when Kenny is up to speed business will resume as normal even if he's involved in the substitutions one way or another most weeks at this stage of his career (I assume Mr Warburton thinks that too hence the insistence in playing him). People are bemoaning Miller starting because we are sailing very close to the wind and Warburton has clearly been using League games to get Kenny up to speed. By sailing close to the wind we dropped points and a message of intent against Hamilton (one of the poorest teams going just now), made hard work of a game against Dundee that should have been over by half time and today we scraped by Motherwell late on - all 3 of these games could have slipped out of reach quite easily and that's ultimately why people are intolerant of passengers. To me, Warburton has questions to answer mounting up and today it seemed like we were playing as though Garner with his aerial threat was playing, cross after cross into the box when we have no one that sticks their head on the ball even in our defense. Maybe that's just it, Warburton is playing the long game assuming that we'll get through the present, who knows but one thing is for certain we need to get our shit together pronto for September.

Writing Kenny off as being 'done' is over the score and I don't say that because of today or even last week, I say that because in my view he's looked like he's been struggling to get up to speed in "pre-season" along with about half a dozen others in total despite the weekly rhetoric of 'having the new players in so early means we'll be extra ready'. People are bemoaning Miller starting because we are sailing very close to the wind and Warburton has clearly been using League games to get Kenny up to speed. Personally, I'm asking myself the question as to whether Warburton is working with too little, whether he isn't quite the manager we hope or whether he's being fly/calculating with an eye on September?! I obviously hope it's the last of the 3.

Thank fuck. Whoever said he'd pop up with the winner deserves a pint, fucking typical. I'm raging though in a sense because I think the goal will stop questions being asked and answers being sought.

Arrogant and naive.

Thank fuck.

Not a single shot on target from us.