Northampton_Loyalist 2 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 I write the occasional article for FF and i can see how some may see this as some form of 'official' piece, but it is not. As a Rangers fan I see too much in the way of division, old wounds left open to fester while Rangers is pissed away. I wrote this article and posted it on the boards of FF and many people have asked that I also post it on other forums, so here goes. Please take it for what it is This is not a piece written for any group or any collection of posters, it is from one supporter who has fought with others on regular occasions. A poster who is today shitting himself We 'on-line supporters' have had it good for a while. Free to express our opinions and defend against the inevitable backlash, free to question each other both as to motive and intelligence, to build 'alliances' and make pretend enemies. Today that has to change. Over the years there has been some fantastic debate, real opinion changing, worthwhile debate and for that alone the advent of the online forum has been a godsend. With it though has come a platform for people to push their own agenda, whether that has been as part of a group or as individuals. Under normal circumstances that challenging of ideas is to be encouraged, it breeds meaningful thought and forces people to challenge their own perceptions. Today we cannot afford the luxury of allowing ego to rule our actions. The biggest bone of contention has gone; Murray may still be a shadow looming over the club but his direct influence, if all the various rumours are correct, has all but dried up. The Murray debate will rage for the rest of all our lifetimes, the outcome will remain, as it ever was, indecisive and people will keep the memories they hold today. The terms applied in the past few years count for nothing today 'Murray haters' and Murrayites' must stand together for the good of the club. Walter Smith too has sparked his fair share of debate. To some he is above any and all criticism, the halcyon days of Nine In A Row and a triumphant return to the club in it's hour of need have assured him a place amongst our managing greats. To others he is a relic of the way football used to be played, safety first and at times boring, afraid to use youth and incapable of adapting his game-plan. Under normal circumstances the debates would be good, necessary even, a spur to the people in charge and aimed at keeping a freshness about the club. Today Smith appears to be the single voice of any note that genuinely has the best interests of the club at heart. Walter Smith was a Rangers fan long before he was given a chance as assistant manager under Souness and he remains as passionate a fan as you will find sitting in the stands. The things that are hurting us today are hurting him as much and perhaps more; we can blind ourselves to the real problems should we so choose, he does not have that luxury and must face the direct consequences on a daily basis. Walter Smith alone has opened a crack in the door for the fans to fearfully peer through; Murray has left the stage without even a farewell and has made no noise at all, Muir has done his damndest to spurn the advances of any journalist asking questions or any fan with the temerity to raise concern, Lloyds have uttered the bear minimum in the way of meaningful dialogue and the upshot is the vacuum of knowledge we now see. Whatever the individuals thoughts on Smith the manager, Smith the man has our best interests at heart and has made the call to arms. Pretty words on a message-board are fantastic in their place but that place is not now, we need cohesion and co-ordination. We need to shelve the more divisive of arguments and fight for the common ground. We are all fans of a club that demands more than simple support, Rangers' gets under your skin, into your life in a way no other institution the world can and because of that when she is under direct and clear threat we have to act as one. I fight with my brothers on a daily basis, always have, but woe betide the person that picks a fight with any of us because the others will step in. As a united front the Rangers support is something far beyond the power of Lloyds to control, never mind an individual like Muir. If you are in the Trust and someone from the assembly has pissed you off, forget it for now. If someone on Rangers Media has upset someone on FollowFollow you need to put it aside, for now at least. Individual arguments count for nothing in the face of a threat that is very real and very clear. Each person on their own is but a single voice and simply cannot achieve what we need today. As a united front the will of our support would be overwhelming. Ego counts for nothing at a time like this, personal victories will be truly hollow if the prize is a club destroyed while the support watched it happen. Far subtler minds than myself will set the true agenda in the coming days, people with a flair for politics will hopefully set the support on the right road and leave simply the walking to be done. In the meantime we need to appreciate that regardless of individual motives Lloyds and Muir are working their way towards destroying our club. The person in the middle has made this painfully clear and we can only ignore Smith's words at our own peril. You owe it to your fellow supporters to do whatever it is you can, be that adding your voice to a protest, carrying a banner or changing who you bank with. The sad fact is if we all wait we may find ourselves pushing too late. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimenez 1 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 There's just no getting away from this guy Top post mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northampton_Loyalist 2 Posted February 5, 2010 Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 and apologies for any bad language contained, Im not sure of the rules here and it was a cut/paste job Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
papaguy51 912 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 I'd say we like a rabble online, but as soon as we're together at the games or in the pub, you won't find a more united fanbase. Then again, I don't get to as many games as several on here, so perhaps my opinion doesn't hold as much water as theirs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northampton_Loyalist 2 Posted February 5, 2010 Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 There's just no getting away from this guy Top post mate. jeez. if i knew you were here i wouldnt have bothered Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 505 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 A very positive post that I'm sure most people buy into. I don't think there is a huge problem between different forums/sites to be honest. I do feel some exaggerate what can be a healthy rivalry somewhat but I agree any issues do need to be left aside when discussing important topics such as the future of our club. People need to be able to differentiate between what is constructive criticism for the good of the club and those who'll cause friction regardless - of which there are some on all sides unfortunately. I'd like to think that is possible and I know my site is eager to try and achieve this and I also know (but can't speak for) RM whom have also contributed strongly to previous efforts such as the STS project. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigyboy9 416 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Good Post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyboyblue 226 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 A very well thought out, reasoned and articulate piece. My only worry about a visual protest of sorts is that I would not condone it in any way if it were to detract from the players efforts. Any protest must be a side issue to a game and not deflect from the support the team is given. Whilst I personally will quite happily close all my accounts with them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvager 498 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Good post, but the thing that concerns me most is that we are all working in a vacuum. Very few know what is really going on. How can we then take any action without knowing the facts? That to me is the real problem. How do we get to know the facts? Facts first then appropriate action. Anything else is just gestures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon 1,743 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Good post, but the thing that concerns me most is that we are all working in a vacuum. Very few know what is really going on. How can we then take any action without knowing the facts? That to me is the real problem. How do we get to know the facts? Facts first then appropriate action. Anything else is just gestures. 100% agree. We all know something has to be done. We just need the correct target to aim at. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northampton_Loyalist 2 Posted February 5, 2010 Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 thank you for the positive words. nvager. It is my belief (and that is all it is) that the vacuum needs to be filled. Muir, whether he is doing right by us or not, has repeatedly refused to answer calls from fans and journalists alike. A protest against him, or maybe even just the threat of one, could force him to engage the support. There is a large thread on this board discussing the rights and wrongs of a protest aimed at Muir. My take is very very simple. There are questions, a fair few of them in fact and without answers the fans are left to forment in a broth of rumour and hearsay. By making ONE release he has the ability to quash those rumours but he has consistently refused to do that. Now, that may be because he sees the answers as 'need to know' or he might have other valid reasons, but as fans we deserve to know whether or not our club is going to be destroyed at one mans will. If a protest (or just the threat of one) forces him into making noises, then it has achieved infinately more than 18 months of sitting on the sidelines waiting for scraps. I just dont see how the Rangers fan of taday can any longer sit and wait for it all to unfold. We need to get ourselves motivated and engaged. If we go after the wrong target to start with, it matters not a tiny bit, we will be mobilized and ready to go after the right target, and the simple act of identifying targets will assure us of more knowledge than we have today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimenez 1 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 thank you for the positive words. nvager. It is my belief (and that is all it is) that the vacuum needs to be filled. Muir, whether he is doing right by us or not, has repeatedly refused to answer calls from fans and journalists alike. A protest against him, or maybe even just the threat of one, could force him to engage the support. There is a large thread on this board discussing the rights and wrongs of a protest aimed at Muir. My take is very very simple. There are questions, a fair few of them in fact and without answers the fans are left to forment in a broth of rumour and hearsay. By making ONE release he has the ability to quash those rumours but he has consistently refused to do that. Now, that may be because he sees the answers as 'need to know' or he might have other valid reasons, but as fans we deserve to know whether or not our club is going to be destroyed at one mans will. If a protest (or just the threat of one) forces him into making noises, then it has achieved infinately more than 18 months of sitting on the sidelines waiting for scraps. I just dont see how the Rangers fan of taday can any longer sit and wait for it all to unfold. We need to get ourselves motivated and engaged. If we go after the wrong target to start with, it matters not a tiny bit, we will be mobilized and ready to go after the right target, and the simple act of identifying targets will assure us of more knowledge than we have today. Something that Smith has went out of his way to point out. How can Rangers fans not see the warning for what it is ? How can we sit back and do nothing ? How can some posters (on all sides) let petty Internet squabbles get in the way of one of the most potentially disastrous events in our club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandhisflip 5 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Superb words Sir - far too many ego's getting in the way in my opinion (as someone who granted knows few of the reasons but can read between the lines). Rangers FC is all important - especially under these circumstances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvager 498 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 I am frustrated as anyone regarding what is happening at Rangers and would like answers too. There may be genuine reasons why D Muir cannot say anything as to do so may be breaking the confidentiality of the Board. He may also be in the midst of arranging a take-over and has his hands full with delicate negotiations. Nobody knows. As far as Walter's statement is concerned it was in my opinion rather poor to go so far and then offer no clarification. Walter said that now was not the time to expand on this. This too is baffling. Why say anything at all then? Is a red card for D Muir protest or some other protest against the Bank going to achieve anything? They all know we are frustrated. They too I suspect are frustrated. Until more facts come out I cannot see how going after targets that may or not be the correct ones does anything to help the situation. I still have suspicions that this is in someway linked to the MIH accounts that will not be available to April. There are just too many unknowns, even taking into account what Walter said to go off half-cock against various targets just now. The fans and forums are united in wanting only what is best for Rangers. Eactly what to do though about it is still very unclear when there are just no facts to go on. This is just my personal point of view. Others may see sense in a protest. I dont condemn that I just want to have more facts before taking aim at any one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandhisflip 5 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 I am frustrated as anyone regarding what is happening at Rangers and would like answers too. There may be genuine reasons why D Muir cannot say anything as to do so may be breaking the confidentiality of the Board. He may also be in the midst of arranging a take-over and has his hands full with delicate negotiations. Nobody knows. As far as Walter's statement is concerned it was in my opinion rather poor to go so far and then offer no clarification. Walter said that now was not the time to expand on this. This too is baffling. Why say anything at all then? Is a red card for D Muir protest or some other protest against the Bank going to achieve anything? They all know we are frustrated. They too I suspect are frustrated. Until more facts come out I cannot see how going after targets that may or not be the correct ones does anything to help the situation. I still have suspicions that this is in someway linked to the MIH accounts that will not be available to April. There are just too many unknowns, even taking into account what Walter said to go off half-cock against various targets just now. The fans and forums are united in wanting only what is best for Rangers. Eactly what to do though about it is still very unclear when there are just no facts to go on. This is just my personal point of view. Others may see sense in a protest. I dont condemn that I just want to have more facts before taking aim at any one. NVAGer - not looking to start a barney with you but where do you suggest we get these facts from? It seems to me that we are deliberately being kept in the dark. The most logical explanation for this is that we won't like what they have to say - hence Muir/Lloyds not being open about their intentions. How would you push the bank to get some answers without some form of protest or otherwise to motivate them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedell 14 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Agreed. Let's hope all sites and organisations can get together for the good of the club, with no pre-conditions. Involvement and input from all can only improve the situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Stars Bearette 1 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Good post, but the thing that concerns me most is that we are all working in a vacuum. Very few know what is really going on. How can we then take any action without knowing the facts? That to me is the real problem. How do we get to know the facts? Facts first then appropriate action. Anything else is just gestures. very good post yes agree here.. we are completly in the dark and are relying on Walter to give indicators as to the seriousness of the situation...why can't they just tell it like it is Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvager 498 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 I am frustrated as anyone regarding what is happening at Rangers and would like answers too. There may be genuine reasons why D Muir cannot say anything as to do so may be breaking the confidentiality of the Board. He may also be in the midst of arranging a take-over and has his hands full with delicate negotiations. Nobody knows. As far as Walter's statement is concerned it was in my opinion rather poor to go so far and then offer no clarification. Walter said that now was not the time to expand on this. This too is baffling. Why say anything at all then? Is a red card for D Muir protest or some other protest against the Bank going to achieve anything? They all know we are frustrated. They too I suspect are frustrated. Until more facts come out I cannot see how going after targets that may or not be the correct ones does anything to help the situation. I still have suspicions that this is in someway linked to the MIH accounts that will not be available to April. There are just too many unknowns, even taking into account what Walter said to go off half-cock against various targets just now. The fans and forums are united in wanting only what is best for Rangers. Eactly what to do though about it is still very unclear when there are just no facts to go on. This is just my personal point of view. Others may see sense in a protest. I dont condemn that I just want to have more facts before taking aim at any one. NVAGer - not looking to start a barney with you but where do you suggest we get these facts from? It seems to me that we are deliberately being kept in the dark. The most logical explanation for this is that we won't like what they have to say - hence Muir/Lloyds not being open about their intentions. How would you push the bank to get some answers without some form of protest or otherwise to motivate them? As I have said above I dont condemn that line of action. It may or may not work. It did not the last time with the Bank coming out and saying they did not run Rangers and contradicting Walter. What if they just repeat that again and once again contradict Walter, what then? It is an awful situation for us to be in. Why cant our Chairman or M. Bain not come out and simply tell us what is happening? Can they not expand on what Walter said? Where is SDM hiding too? Why has he been so extraordianlly quiet? He is the major shareholder is he not? Lots of questions and no-one is giving us answers. Why cant our Board full of Rangers men not tell us more? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimenez 1 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Agreed. Let's hope all sites and organisations can get together for the good of the club, with no pre-conditions. Involvement and input from all can only improve the situation. hear hear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimenez 1 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 As I have said above I dont condemn that line of action. It may or may not work. It did not the last time with the Bank coming out and saying they did not run Rangers and contradicting Walter. What if they just repeat that again and once again contradict Walter, what then? It is an awful situation for us to be in. Why cant our Chairman or M. Bain not come out and simply tell us what is happening? Can they not expand on what Walter said? Where is SDM hiding too? Why has he been so extraordianlly quiet? He is the major shareholder is he not? Lots of questions and no-one is giving us answers. Why cant our Board full of Rangers men not tell us more? Muir being the reason we are left in the dark with cloaked tales of woe from Smith. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wertp72 0 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 I understand your feelings regarding unity, pity some people who run forums have their own agendas and if it isn't their idea, they don't want others jumping in claiming their twopence worth. Or because of personal issues with each other. I se forums as a place for fans to give views on all sorts of things regarding Rangers, whether some like it or not, let fans decide if they wish to discuss it. And when there is a call to protest, march or whatever, a certain forum will delete all topics regarding such things because of a personal fued with another forum. It is not left to the individuals to make up their minds when asked to join in, help, attend or not. We should be united at all times if it's for the good of rangers and the fans. Not some forums preconceived ideas of what should or should not be allowed to be discussed or debated. There will be heated arguments/debates, and it is up to fans to decide whether or not to unite in things. In this matter regarding the silence, should be forced in some way to be discussed or get some answers. But it's not just forums as not every fan has a pc let alone logs in to forums. Getting unity through forums is a start, but not the way to have ALL the fans hear the message of unity. I think RM does not have personel issues with any other forum as RM will allow things from other forums that the others would disregard/delete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvager 498 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 RM has no agenda of its own. RM is very open to discussions from any forum poster. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimenez 1 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Nobody has contacted RM asking us to help with getting the word out, what the plan is, etc. As always we'll stay neutral and let people talk about this whether critical or positive. I'd imagine we'd be happy to get involved and help promote it, but nobodies asked us. Should they need to ? TBO have been protesting about Lloyds for a few weeks now, does that need permission from every fan group/RSC/website/association etc etc this is a heads up for Rangers fans to forget about whatever site/group they may be affiliated with and to strive for the common good for Rangers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccoist355 4 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 As i said on another thread, I think the only way you'd get enough fans - 100'000 or so - to put in 200-500 quid would be a clear message to fans - from the Club or a respected individual like Walter - of: "Buy the club or We'll have a budget equivalent to Falkirk." There needs to be a clear SOS before the fans can come to the rescue. An organised scheme from the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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