Crime of the century ?

[Harry Callahan 9]

Can you begin to tell me what relevance TBB has with Roman Catholics????????????

erm.... "F*nian".

Im almost certain this is the group of people the Brigton Boys were aiming at when happily singing, there "gang" anthem.

You think F*nian means roman catholic?

I didn't say that big man.

So EXACTLY what are you saying??????

[TheHammer 10]

Can you begin to tell me what relevance TBB has with Roman Catholics????????????

erm.... "F*nian".

Im almost certain this is the group of people the Brigton Boys were aiming at when happily singing, there "gang" anthem.

Away and learn what the word means, and not what you have been 'taught' to think it means.

Why don't you tell me what it means then and tell me why it's a chosen lyric in TBB.... maybe you have Billy Fullerton on speed dial?

[TheHammer 10]

Can you begin to tell me what relevance TBB has with Roman Catholics????????????

erm.... "F*nian".

Im almost certain this is the group of people the Brigton Boys were aiming at when happily singing, there "gang" anthem.

You think F*nian means roman catholic?

I didn't say that big man.

So EXACTLY what are you saying??????

Im saying the the word "F*nian" was obviously chosen for a purpose. But you can fill me in big chap.

[TunnyLoyal 1,136]

Can you begin to tell me what relevance TBB has with Roman Catholics????????????

erm.... "F*nian".

Im almost certain this is the group of people the Brigton Boys were aiming at when happily singing, there "gang" anthem.

You think F*nian means roman catholic?

I didn't say that big man.

Aye ye did!

Look at the top quote and then look at your answer!

[Harry Callahan 9]

Can you begin to tell me what relevance TBB has with Roman Catholics????????????

erm.... "F*nian".

Im almost certain this is the group of people the Brigton Boys were aiming at when happily singing, there "gang" anthem.

Away and learn what the word means, and not what you have been 'taught' to think it means.

Why don't you tell me what it means then and tell me why it's a chosen lyric in TBB.... maybe you have Billy Fullerton on speed dial?

You have claimed that 'F*nian' means Roman Catholic.

Again I will ask you, do not try to turn around the question, please explain YOUR comment.

[Harry Callahan 9]

Can you begin to tell me what relevance TBB has with Roman Catholics????????????

erm.... "F*nian".

Im almost certain this is the group of people the Brigton Boys were aiming at when happily singing, there "gang" anthem.

You think F*nian means roman catholic?

I didn't say that big man.

So EXACTLY what are you saying??????

Im saying the the word "F*nian" was obviously chosen for a purpose. But you can fill me in big chap.

No need for 'big chap' I am average size.

You are obviously in the know.

Educate me how a F*nian is a roman catholic without returning with a question.

[cooper1989 0]

I was brought up on it. I don't care if people sing it, or they don't. My fundamental belief is one of free speech. TBB is not hatred imho. It must be allowed under any free speech 'law'.

I take it you had relatives who fought the Norman Conks?

Not at all mate. I didn't say I support the 'lyrics' -- just people's right to sing them.

Well, TBB is a song that can be said to represent the Union. I will sing it loud and proud, and aye, it makes the hairs on my neck stand up, but... it has no place in modern day footall stadia.

The context of the song has no relevance when aimed at opposition supporters, as the majority of them are not Roman Catholic or Irish Republicans.

There is a time and place for TBB.

Of course there is mate.

I am from a working class family. That aside.. my point is -- TBB has a time and/or a place -- that is clear... and, it is about Freedom of Speech. End of.

UEFA are weak -- and political. Perhaps that is one and the same?

There is always a time and place to sing. Sadly, Europe would rather look at us -- than the clear racism that happens say, in everyday France?

It's a crazy world. (But somehow, the focus is on The Rangers support?) Insane.

It's a complex issue. Simply because of the zillion bureaucrats in Nyon/Zurich?

And let's not forget Bruxelles?

Anyway, roll on #54!

[grahamteuchter 1]

You cant defend the indefensible though can you? James Traynor was spot on in what he said. The fans who went did sing 'sectarian' songs with no regard as to how it made us look. I dont care what the Celtic fans sing but if we, finally, clean it up then maybe, just maybe, the sectarian spotlight will shine on Celtic and their loathsome I.R.A songs rather than us.

But we still have plenty of fans willing to contribute to shooting ourselves in the foot.

TWB that logic just doesnt hold up. In fact you have just given Manti more ammunition !! (that arguement is his particular favourite)

Did we see a balanced report on both incidents from him or was a few songs far more worthy of comment than that which unfolded in Lincoln.

Its a bit like reporting on a small reversing bump while the 12 car pile up further up the road is ignored.

I know - but it just shows that we are in the spotlight at the moment when it comes to this particular issue and as long as we keep writing their headlines for them then we will stay there.

The way this issue is handled by the Scottish Media is a disgrace but, sadly, I feel it will remain a disgrace until we sort ourselves out. I dont really want to get into another one of these arguments but if we cut out the, let's say, darker songs from our reportoire then, surely, we will be untouchable.

Then Celtic should get their turn under the spotlight.

I realise that this is all conjecture though.

Absolutely. There is still a lot work needing done to rid ourselves of sectarian singing and until it stops it will be reported on. We cant keep having the arguament of "well they do it". To stop the bad headlines we have to stop giving them amunition and then surely the mhedia can highlight the septic's dark side

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Absolutely. There is still a lot work needing done to rid ourselves of sectarian singing and until it stops it will be reported on. We cant keep having the arguament of "well they do it". To stop the bad headlines we have to stop giving them amunition and then surely the mhedia can highlight the septic's dark side

You are really not getting this Graham are you ?

Im not having the arguement "well they do it" and thus there should be no bad headlines when we do it.

Let me re-iterate a earlier post I made.

I cant for the life of me understand the unwillingness to defend our own. I dont even mean to excuse that which is unacceptable - but at least could we have some parity when it comes to reporting such incidents.

[RM Monitor And Standards Officer 112,814]

D'ARTwhat a fantastic read mate. Your writing skills should be applauded. However i see the usual are jumping in with the usual shite

[psychobudgie 55]

Absolutely. There is still a lot work needing done to rid ourselves of sectarian singing and until it stops it will be reported on. We cant keep having the arguament of "well they do it". To stop the bad headlines we have to stop giving them amunition and then surely the mhedia can highlight the septic's dark side

You are really not getting this Graham are you ?

Im not having the arguement "well they do it" and thus there should be no bad headlines when we do it.

Let me re-iterate a earlier post I made.

I cant for the life of me understand the unwillingness to defend our own. I dont even mean to excuse that which is unacceptable - but at least could we have some parity when it comes to reporting such incidents.

So your argument is, people attending football matches should be able to sing whatever they want whether religiously offensive, politically offensive or racially offensive and do it without fear of criticism or retribution?

Just would like to clarify this.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

The reporting may be (is) imbalanced - but that does not mean to say that we should be giving anyone ammunition, as the opening poster says the fans were singing 'naughty' songs (d'arts words) and as unfortunate as it may be two wrongs do not make a right.

Imbalanced reporting happens, particulariliy with columnists, there is no expectation of neutrality from a columist. If a political columist has a conservative leaning and writes about a political issue the colum n is biased based on their political views. If a football columist writes about our support he does so from his view point, and no matter how much we disagree with his viewpoint he is entitled to write it.

Now it is valid for us to write and email Traynor to ask why he continually ignores 'theiir' ways, after all we are entitled to our opinion as much as he is, but he has written about them in the past and will do so again, but the only way he can write negatively about us is when some of our fans give him cause to do so.

There was no error in Traynors reporting, some fans persist on singing songs that they know harms our reputation. He may lack a balanced perspective but rather than trying to drag other teams down as well as us why dont we start making sure there can be no complaint about our fans and then their is nothing to write about.

[caseyjones 3,009]

Absolutely. There is still a lot work needing done to rid ourselves of sectarian singing and until it stops it will be reported on. We cant keep having the arguament of "well they do it". To stop the bad headlines we have to stop giving them amunition and then surely the mhedia can highlight the septic's dark side

You are really not getting this Graham are you ?

Im not having the arguement "well they do it" and thus there should be no bad headlines when we do it.

Let me re-iterate a earlier post I made.

I cant for the life of me understand the unwillingness to defend our own. I dont even mean to excuse that which is unacceptable - but at least could we have some parity when it comes to reporting such incidents.

So your argument is, people attending football matches should be able to sing whatever they want whether religiously offensive, politically offensive or racially offensive and do it without fear of criticism or retribution?

Just would like to clarify this.

I haven't read the complete thread, but I would doubt that he did say that. However, it is a fantastic idea which may rid us of the faint-hearted cunts whose sole reason for attending appears to be to feel offended by something or someone.

If I went somewhere and I didn't like what was going on, I wouldn't return.

Why do some people feel that they have the right to make everyone else adhere to their way of thinking?

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Also because our 'naughty' songs are far more audible than theirs are.

What songs do you have in mind?

[RM Monitor And Standards Officer 112,814]

Also because our 'naughty' songs are far more audible than theirs are.

What songs do you have in mind?

Derrys Walls? The Sash? Rule Britania? UDR 4? One of the naughty songs like that manti

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Can you begin to tell me what relevance TBB has with Roman Catholics????????????

erm.... "F*nian".

Im almost certain this is the group of people the Brigton Boys were aiming at when happily singing, there "gang" anthem.

Well if you were in 1920s or 30s Brigton / East End, you could safely assume that the vast majority, possibly all Feni@ns/ irish republicans in the area would be rc.

That does not make the song directed at rcs, it was directed at Feni@ns. Remember Irish partition and the formation of the Free state were huge political issues at the time.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Anyway excellent OP D'Art, keep plugging away!

I'm sure we will get the message across to more and more bears.

One thing that the discussion reminded me of was that RST Conference season before last. There was a speaker there representing Norn Irn fans.

One of the first things he said, and I can't emphasise strongly enough how much I believe this applies to Rangers as well, is that to be realistic they simply had to accept that there is a hard core of people out there who simply will not accept their right to exist - they regard their very existence as offensive.

The problem is that in Scotland the hard core who loathe our very existence includes many very influential people.

[MosesMcNeil 1,664]

You cant defend the indefensible though can you? James Traynor was spot on in what he said. The fans who went did sing 'sectarian' songs with no regard as to how it made us look. I dont care what the Celtic fans sing but if we, finally, clean it up then maybe, just maybe, the sectarian spotlight will shine on Celtic and their loathsome I.R.A songs rather than us.

But we still have plenty of fans willing to contribute to shooting ourselves in the foot.

We have inalienable rights to free speech enshrined in law. My own opinion is that what is currently perceived (and reported) as sectarian is often anything but. It doesn't matter - article 11 of European Union Charter of Fundamental Rights dictates that what you argue is indefensible is inaccurate.

I've said this before - what we need is a well funded legal challenge to assert our rights to free-speech. I think the club should fund it, too.

[RM Monitor And Standards Officer 112,814]

Anyway excellent OP D'Art, keep plugging away!

I'm sure we will get the message across to more and more bears.

One thing that the discussion reminded me of was that RST Conference season before last. There was a speaker there representing Norn Irn fans.

One of the first things he said, and I can't emphasise strongly enough how much I believe this applies to Rangers as well, is that to be realistic they simply had to accept that there is a hard core of people out there who simply will not accept their right to exist - they regard their very existence as offensive.

The problem is that in Scotland the hard core who loathe our very existence includes many very influential people.

Thats it in a nutshell

[minstral 5,375]

The truth is its a crime to be a Rangers fan, and a hanging offence if you are a Protestant Rangers fan.

[MosesMcNeil 1,664]

The truth is its a crime to be a Rangers fan, and a hanging offence if you are a Protestant Rangers fan.

Only to the moron community, Minstral.

And as my faither often said - fuck them.

[martin93 136]

There has been another great point raised by some people in this thread about how celtic stick up for their fans while we dont,that is 100% true and it pisses me off we just let people in the press and others say whatever shite they want about us yet we dont defend ourselves its pathetic

[Briton 394]

You cant defend the indefensible though can you? James Traynor was spot on in what he said. The fans who went did sing 'sectarian' songs with no regard as to how it made us look. I dont care what the Celtic fans sing but if we, finally, clean it up then maybe, just maybe, the sectarian spotlight will shine on Celtic and their loathsome I.R.A songs rather than us.

But we still have plenty of fans willing to contribute to shooting ourselves in the foot.

Well said. Saying that, I think the 'sectarian spotlight' will never fall on Celtic fans for their support of the IRA as that will never be seen as sectarian, obnoxious though it is.

[BLUEDIGNITY 34,078]

Yes DA we've been the target to long, and it's obvious we are still certain peoples 'AGENDA.' Until the heid bummers fight back then it will go on. Murrays part in this is unforgivable !

[minstral 5,375]

The thing is one side shout from the rooftops of how proud they are of being a catholic club, and yet some of our lot seem ashamed of our Protestant traditions. Some fans have been brainwashed by the media into think that if you say that our club is Protestant is now a crime. The problem also started when Murray was in charge as being a non Rangers man, he had no idea what our club was all about, and even if he did, he wanted no part of it. He was happy to try and get rid of our Protestant connection starting with the annual Orange parade where only hymns were played. Then he would attack his own fans and threating to jail them for singing or take away their season tickets.