Rangers, scapegoat?

[bluesbro1976 162]

Royston to the green. Don't know the time.

They had a similar march last year for some other terrorist minded shite and wore ski masks without any challenge from pc plhod!

FFS, if we wore ski masks at an orange rally (not that we would as it's not we are about) there would be fuckin hell on and you can imagine the mhedia feedin frenzie. Makin sure they showed all the followers warin Rangers FC tops of course!!!

Cool mate, may find out what time its at and head down if I am not working.. Then a full and comprehensive report will be made to senior rhanks at strathclyde police, local counscellors and the lord provost! As a taxpayer in this city, I want to know why my local police force is providing security for people who want to murder and have murdered and who glorify murder of innocent man woman and child.

[corkinator 611]

I am well aware of that. The reason it isn't apartheid is that every child is free not to if they (or rather their parents) choose not to opt into this voluntary kind of segregation. A nominally Catholic child may go to a non-denominational school, a nominally Protestant child may go to a Catholic school. There is no legal compulsion to discriminate and no punishment for breaching what you yourself describe as an "unwritten rule".

It's a very real, very serious cultural issue that requires examination and discussion, what it doesn't need is overly emotive sloganeering. When a non-Catholic rants about "apartheid schooling" in Glasgow, he will be readily dismissed by many as a bigot. That is not helpful. But he brings it on himself by not knowing what he's talking about.

Again with the bigot word. Why is it bigoted? And I can assure you I know what I'm talking about, half my family went through the apartheid or separatist schooling system. See I can use many words that are emotive which only touch on the meaning I refer to but actually fit the discription of the subject correctly.

[markhately 16]

I am well aware of that. The reason it isn't apartheid is that every child is free not to if they (or rather their parents) choose not to opt into this voluntary kind of segregation. A nominally Catholic child may go to a non-denominational school, a nominally Protestant child may go to a Catholic school. There is no legal compulsion to discriminate and no punishment for breaching what you yourself describe as an "unwritten rule".

It's a very real, very serious cultural issue that requires examination and discussion, what it doesn't need is overly emotive sloganeering. When a non-Catholic rants about "apartheid schooling" in Glasgow, he will be readily dismissed by many as a bigot. That is not helpful. But he brings it on himself by not knowing what he's talking about.

There should be no state funded segregation. It is immoral and devisive. If the Scottish government wish to have a level playing field treating all our population fairly then there should be state funded faith schools for protestants, muslims,jews and so on. If not, then the government IS discriminating.

I would say a legal challenge to the European court on the grounds that government policy is being discrimitory against the majority of residents in Scotland would be successful. Take fuckin years of course and plenty cash!

[jack1690 793]

I am well aware of that. The reason it isn't apartheid is that every child is free not to if they (or rather their parents) choose not to opt into this voluntary kind of segregation. A nominally Catholic child may go to a non-denominational school, a nominally Protestant child may go to a Catholic school. There is no legal compulsion to discriminate and no punishment for breaching what you yourself describe as an "unwritten rule".

It's a very real, very serious cultural issue that requires examination and discussion, what it doesn't need is overly emotive sloganeering. When a non-Catholic rants about "apartheid schooling" in Glasgow, he will be readily dismissed by many as a bigot. That is not helpful. But he brings it on himself by not knowing what he's talking about.

But the point is, when a catholic rants about NOT having "aparheid schooling", they are readily listened to and are approved of having a valid argument. Thats the difference.

[corkinator 611]

There should be no state funded segregation. It is immoral and devisive. If the Scottish government wish to have a level playing field treating all our population fairly then there should be state funded faith schools for protestants, muslims,jews and so on. If not, then the government IS discriminating.

I would say a legal challenge to the European court on the grounds that government policy is being discrimitory against the majority of residents in Scotland would be successful. Take fuckin years of course and plenty cash!

Let's use the left over RFFF monies......

[ger50champ 300]

Just thinking with the diatribe an hatred flowing freely towards our club in recent years, and just escalating out of control in the last few months, it strikes me that NO OTHER section of society would have been made to suffer the way the club an its fans have.

I'm all for a bit of crack and a certain amount of hatred for the club but what we have went through has been truly appalling at time and most of it if not all has been unwarranted.

However I digress and I point is this, are we looking at a starting point for a kind of "ethnic cleansing" in scotland?

Many people I know outside of scotland have said it seems as if they get rid of one side of the old firm, us, then sectarianism in this country would disappear . I believe apartheid schooling is to blame and always has been.

We have Salmond looking to break from the uk as well as other little bits and bobs happening in Glasgow especially, the east end regeneration and the virtual slum conditions of the Goan area and south side with rail links being denied after promises' were made.

I am a confirmed atheist but I do see sinister connotations in what's been happening with Rangers as a club in recent years. There is something inherently sinister about one section of society wanting the other sections demise and dare I say death.

Thanks.

Superb post mate and very accurate

[JamieD 18,992]

Again with the bigot word. Why is it bigoted? And I can assure you I know what I'm talking about, half my family went through the apartheid or separatist schooling system. See I can use many words that are emotive which only touch on the meaning I refer to but actually fit the discription of the subject correctly.

I don't think you are understanding what I'm saying. It ISN'T bigoted to question religiously segregated schools, but if you're in the West of Scotland, and not a Catholic, I'm sure you know it's hard to say anything about Catholicism without being accused of bigotry, so the last thing you need to be doing is actually inviting - at best - ridicule and - at worst - condemnation as a bigot by comparing the situation to that of apartheid, because it isn't like apartheid, and comparing it to apartheid suggests the kind of uninformed nonsense that a bigot might spout. Do you see?

Basically, an intelligent, rational person cannot ignore you if you make clear, accurate, intelligent points about the subject, and if they do ignore you, they are running scared and you have won the debate. If you make hysterical, inaccurate, silly points, they will dismiss you as a crank and avoid discussing the important matter at hand. You seem to think that because the Scottish schooling system is disgraceful (which it is), that means that it deserves the emotiveness of a term like "apartheid". It's not about the emotiveness though, it's about what the word means. The Scottish schooling system isn't like apartheid, so comparing the two makes you sound foolish, and why would you want to sound foolish when you have valid things to say about the subject? Why wouldn't you rather just make your valid points plainly and accurately? The Scottish schooling system IS rotten. It doesn't need to be described inaccurately to support that argument.

[JamieD 18,992]

But the point is, when a catholic rants about NOT having "aparheid schooling", they are readily listened to and are approved of having a valid argument. Thats the difference.

I haven't denied that

[JamieD 18,992]

There should be no state funded segregation. It is immoral and devisive. If the Scottish government wish to have a level playing field treating all our population fairly then there should be state funded faith schools for protestants, muslims,jews and so on. If not, then the government IS discriminating.

I would say a legal challenge to the European court on the grounds that government policy is being discrimitory against the majority of residents in Scotland would be successful. Take fuckin years of course and plenty cash!

The difference, of course, is that, to the best of my knowledge at least, nobody is asking the government for funding for "Protestant" schools, so it's not discriminatory for the government not to be giving it. If such schools existed and applied for funding and were refused, then this would be a valid discussion.

Of course, the idea of faith schools, whether privately funded or government funded, is absolutely outrageous, and I say that as a believer of sorts.

[jack1690 793]

I haven't denied that

Didnt say you did mate, just making a point & I agree with your posts on this subject.

[corkinator 611]

The idea that getting rid of Rangers or any other symbol of protestant unionisim would end sectarianisim is like saying if we got rid of all non white people racisim would end. Lunacy.

I agree but some pretty bright folk I know tend to differ. That is why I hint at the death or attempted murder of rangers " may" be the start of a concerted campaign of dilution or even eradication.

You may laugh but I can assure you the same style of propaganda campaign went on prior to the nazis gaining power in the 30's although a lot more extreme. Small acorns and all that.

[JamieD 18,992]

Didnt say you did mate, just making a point & I agree with your posts on this subject.

Fair enough

[corkinator 611]

I don't think you are understanding what I'm saying. It ISN'T bigoted to question religiously segregated schools, but if you're in the West of Scotland, and not a Catholic, I'm sure you know it's hard to say anything about Catholicism without being accused of bigotry, so the last thing you need to be doing is actually inviting - at best - ridicule and - at worst - condemnation as a bigot by comparing the situation to that of apartheid, because it isn't like apartheid, and comparing it to apartheid suggests the kind of uninformed nonsense that a bigot might spout. Do you see?

Basically, an intelligent, rational person cannot ignore you if you make clear, accurate, intelligent points about the subject, and if they do ignore you, they are running scared and you have won the debate. If you make hysterical, inaccurate, silly points, they will dismiss you as a crank and avoid discussing the important matter at hand. You seem to think that because the Scottish schooling system is disgraceful (which it is), that means that it deserves the emotiveness of a term like "apartheid". It's not about the emotiveness though, it's about what the word means. The Scottish schooling system isn't like apartheid, so comparing the two makes you sound foolish, and why would you want to sound foolish when you have valid things to say about the subject? Why wouldn't you rather just make your valid points plainly and accurately? The Scottish schooling system IS rotten. It doesn't need to be described inaccurately to support that argument.

I take all your points on board and I do agree, to a certain extent, although we are on a Rangers fans forum, I was not an I am not likely to get critical acclaim nor am I seeking it. The emotive terms used were just that, it got the debate ball rolling and it got people talking and interacting about the subject which I, and other, feel strongly about and the way I expressed them should not deflect from their sentiment.

I wish to use the word " apartheid" as it's such a fitting one for the subject I see as this country's " version" of apartheid. So if you can look past the phrases I use and just gather the sentiment from the OP let me know, do you think this indeed, could be, the start of a prolonged campaign against a large section of society that another section wishes to, eventually, eradicate?

[pansypotterthedirtyrotter 7]

It's an unwritten rule in scotland, your brought up in the catholic religion you attend a catholic school, 99+% of the time. I actually said to my mates missus about a school closer to her that her young boy could attend as its closer to her home and she said,"I canny send him there that's a Protestant school". It wasn't it was non dom, but this is what your up against. Especially the area I live in they are totally brainwashed by the god/ jesus LIE.

If you want religion teach them separately I find it astonishing that parents put up with their children being taught fairy stories when they should be getting educated. No order we have some of the highest illiteracy statistics in the western world.

"no order"?

Did you go to one of those schools?

[markhately 16]

I agree but some pretty bright folk I know tend to differ. That is why I hint at the death or attempted murder of rangers " may" be the start of a concerted campaign of dilution or even eradication.

You may laugh but I can assure you the same style of propaganda campaign went on prior to the nazis gaining power in the 30's although a lot more extreme. Small acorns and all that.

Wholeheartedly agree!

These henious vhermin are not for going away.

In which civilised society would such public glorification of murdering terrorists be tolerated? How must the families of their victims feel?

Can you imagine the uproar if they tried this shit down south?

Only in Scotland! I would never have thought that we would become a nation of appeasers. We are now quite openly being bullied by all and sundry. I can speculate to say that this appeasement will all end in tears, because someone somehwere will say, we have had enough and light the flame of true hatred and retaliate in the extreme and that flame may not be able to be extinguished so easily and we would have the ''troubles'' on our very own doorstep. Maybe that's what the extremists amongst the taig vhermin are pushing for.

Our country has well and truly gone to the dogs, but I am not for leaving!

[corkinator 611]

"no order"?

Did you go to one of those schools?

Hahaha the irony is not lost on me, damn predictive text on iPads! Should read no WONDER!

[pansypotterthedirtyrotter 7]

Hahaha the irony is not lost on me, damn predictive text on iPads! Should read no WONDER!

I fcukin hate those things

[corkinator 611]

I fcukin hate those things

Ah their ok, I work away so lighter and less room than a laptop, so does me.

[bluechip 359]

We are witnessing the Descrimination of Rangers and, in turn, Descrimination of us as both British and Protestant, beacause we have been been silent and have allowed others with their own agenda to demonise us. We are becoming outcasts in our own country.

We live in a country where Educational Apartheid is an accepted way of life and the weird thing is that if you question this you run the danger of being called a bigot.

FFS when are we going to wake up to this inequity and stop appeasing the minority view, which thinks it is ok to seperate weans at the age of 4 and 5 and in turn condemn them to a lifetime of segregation , instead of supporting integration ,which will produce a more balanced and tolerant Scotland

Out of all the organisations in the world who you would want involved in a childs eduction , the Roman Catholic Church would be the absolute last.

Why would any parent want a Preist anywhere near their weans?

Great points Davie apart from the last bit, rep'd you anyway.

[Gaz92 966]

Just thinking with the diatribe an hatred flowing freely towards our club in recent years, and just escalating out of control in the last few months, it strikes me that NO OTHER section of society would have been made to suffer the way the club an its fans have.

I'm all for a bit of crack and a certain amount of hatred for the club but what we have went through has been truly appalling at time and most of it if not all has been unwarranted.

However I digress and I point is this, are we looking at a starting point for a kind of "ethnic cleansing" in scotland?

Many people I know outside of scotland have said it seems as if they get rid of one side of the old firm, us, then sectarianism in this country would disappear . I believe apartheid schooling is to blame and always has been.

We have Salmond looking to break from the uk as well as other little bits and bobs happening in Glasgow especially, the east end regeneration and the virtual slum conditions of the Goan area and south side with rail links being denied after promises' were made.

I am a confirmed atheist but I do see sinister connotations in what's been happening with Rangers as a club in recent years. There is something inherently sinister about one section of society wanting the other sections demise and dare I say death.

Thanks.

Although this topic has led to a completely different debate, I think the actual point you're trying to make is completely incorrect. Catholic schools have something to do with the sticking the boot into Rangers over our downfall? What sort of evidence do you have to make a valid argument about this? When you've got a team like Rangers, the most dominant and successful side in the history of the league brought down to its knees, I think it's inevitable that others are going to stick the boot in. The smaller teams who simply haven't been able to compete with us over the years are finally in the position where they're brave enough to pipe up, and they're taking full advantage out of it. It would be the same if it was Celtic in the same trouble, or if it was Man Utd down in England.

As for the what's came from the other side of the city? Well that's based on the rivalry. You have a laugh at the others expense whether it's suffering defeat in a match, or whether they're in a real state. Would you say that Rangers fans wouldn't have the same digs if it was Celtic in our position? Now you can say about what that rivalry is based on, but it's the nature of rivalry to have a laugh at your enemies expense.

And the media. Well, anything to sensationalise a story, have a headline, have a selling point and to get people talking. Which it does, doesn't it? How many thousands of pages on here are based on what a newspaper or radio station says even if it's complete tripe? The media is a cut throat world, and if you want to go with a moderate headline and story in the gutter press, you're not going to get anywhere.

Does everything in this city have to be based on religion in someway or another?

[corkinator 611]

Although this topic has led to a completely different debate, I think the actual point you're trying to make is completely incorrect. Catholic schools have something to do with the sticking the boot into Rangers over our downfall? What sort of evidence do you have to make a valid argument about this? When you've got a team like Rangers, the most dominant and successful side in the history of the league brought down to its knees, I think it's inevitable that others are going to stick the boot in. The smaller teams who simply haven't been able to compete with us over the years are finally in the position where they're brave enough to pipe up, and they're taking full advantage out of it. It would be the same if it was Celtic in the same trouble, or if it was Man Utd down in England.

As for the what's came from the other side of the city? Well that's based on the rivalry. You have a laugh at the others expense whether it's suffering defeat in a match, or whether they're in a real state. Would you say that Rangers fans wouldn't have the same digs if it was Celtic in our position? Now you can say about what that rivalry is based on, but it's the nature of rivalry to have a laugh at your enemies expense.

And the media. Well, anything to sensationalise a story, have a headline, have a selling point and to get people talking. Which it does, doesn't it? How many thousands of pages on here are based on what a newspaper or radio station says even if it's complete tripe? The media is a cut throat world, and if you want to go with a moderate headline and story in the gutter press, you're not going to get anywhere.

Does everything in this city have to be based on religion in someway or another?

You have missed my point, I'm not stating separatist schooling is trying to bring about our downfall I am saying separatist schooling is the root cause of sectarianism in scotland. ALL schools should be non denominational.

Also I never mentioned the other side of the city having a laugh at our expense. I stated facts about lack of investment in one are against he other. You lost me there!