so now the entire English FA is racist...

[the goal machine 7,813]

So are you saying racism can only work one way?

No. I'm saying that a group that there's a difference between a group that solely represents the dominant ethnic group and one that has been discriminated against.

[the goal machine 7,813]

Sorry but that's pish! Discrimination is discrimination no matter the numbers. Certain groups need to practice what they preach.Someone correct me if I'm wrong as I haven't went through the world demographics, but white people aren't in the world's majority are they? I feel persecuted!

I meant in Britain mate. A group that represents a historically persecuted-against group, who believe they are under represented, is not the same as one that represents the dominant ethnic group imo.

[the goal machine 7,813]

Well obviously there is, not least the skin colour of the people involved.

But what do you conclude from this difference? The SBL presumably excludes non black lawyers, do you believe that this is acceptable discrimination?

If there were a Society of White Lawyers which likewise excluded non whites would that be acceptable?

Or are you advocating different rules for different ethnic groups?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not having a go at you, in fact it's admirable that you not only realise that this is a much more complex issue than most posters think but that you are also willing to raise it. But having raised it you really should explain your thinking.

Otherwise you run the risk of looking a bit foolish.

No, I don't believe it is acceptable discrimination as excluding yourself to gain equality seems wrong to me. I don't advocate any discrimination in groups, but I believe there is a difference in a minority group defending their rights against perceived discrimination and a group which sought to exclude others from different ethnic groups. Just my opinion.

[simplythebest 11,453]

No. I'm saying that a group that there's a difference between a group that solely represents the dominant ethnic group and one that has been discriminated against.

Historically is the correct word, of course you get racism but any sort of official widespread descrimination that sees people not get employed etc is long gone in this country.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

No, I don't believe it is acceptable discrimination as excluding yourself to gain equality seems wrong to me. I don't advocate any discrimination in groups, but I believe there is a difference in a minority group defending their rights against perceived discrimination and a group which sought to exclude others from different ethnic groups. Just my opinion.

You seem to exclude the possibility of a majority group defending their rights against perceived discrimination.

You also seem to think that minority groups based on ethnic origin don't seek to exclude others from different ethnic groups.

You clearly have an opinion, but it is either not thought through or poorly expressed. Do you have a point you want to add to the discussion or is it just a series of unconnected thoughts?

[the goal machine 7,813]

Historically is the correct word, of course you get racism but any sort of official widespread descrimination that sees people not get employed etc is long gone in this country.

I didn't say there was, and the SBL seem to be pretty moronic so I'm not trying to defend them as a group. There's still plenty of accusations of institutional racism so there's some that would disagree that it is long gone. My point was that it's not as simple as "Why do the Blacks have a group, if the Whites did we'd be called racist" etc.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Obviously, if the Society of Black lawyers was discriminating against white people then it would be a vastly different story.

Are you saying that the SBL admits all ethnic origins?

Otherwise it is discriminating against those it excludes.

[the goal machine 7,813]

You seem to exclude the possibility of a majority group defending their rights against perceived discrimination.

You also seem to think that minority groups based on ethnic origin don't seek to exclude others from different ethnic groups.

You clearly have an opinion, but it is either not thought through or poorly expressed. Do you have a point you want to add to the discussion or is it just a series of unconnected thoughts?

I was trying to answer your questions.

I'm not excluding the possibility of the dominant group attempting to defending themselves against perceived discrimination. It happens. I mean, isn't that what the EDL and SDL think they're doing? They believe the White British/Scottish male will be discriminated against and alienated with the introduction of Sharia Law etc. So it does happen.

I didn't say that either. Now you're just attributing statements to me. I have no idea, but I can't imagine many people wanting to join such an organisation if they're not from such a background.

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

Historically is the correct word, of course you get racism but any sort of official widespread descrimination that sees people not get employed etc is long gone in this country.

Except in catholic schools

[the goal machine 7,813]

Are you saying that the SBL admits all ethnic origins?

Otherwise it is discriminating against those it excludes.

I honestly don't know. Hence why I said "if". It would be ridiculous if they refused to let white lawyers who specialised in racial equality in. Just to make myself clear, I don't agree with anything this Herbert guy has said (he's in it for selfish reasons imo) and it is a publicity stunt imo. But I was talking about ethnic interest groups in general, and the differences I believe there is.

[Jeff crap in the head 120]

I honestly don't know. Hence why I said "if". It would be ridiculous if they refused to let white lawyers who specialised in racial equality in. Just to make myself clear, I don't agree with anything this Herbert guy has said (he's in it for selfish reasons imo) and it is a publicity stunt imo. But I was talking about ethnic interest groups in general, and the differences I believe there is.

Surely in the interests of fairness you should either have all ethnic interest groups classed as acceptable, or none?

[Jeff crap in the head 120]

Do Chinese not count as black?

I don't know but they'd score for fun up here.

[the goal machine 7,813]

Surely in the interests of fairness you should either have all ethnic interest groups classed as acceptable, or none?

But not all of them will be the same or be in it for decent reasons. One could be in it to discriminate and other could be in it to promote equality and diversity. I don't think it would be fair to class them all as the same.

[Jeff crap in the head 120]

But not all of them will be the same or be in it for decent reasons. One could be in it to discriminate and other could be in it to promote equality and diversity. I don't think it would be fair to class them all as the same.

How do you know what reasons they will be in it for?

I am always confused by the notion of diversity anyway. Somehow having a set number of women / foreign people / people with a different skin colour makes everything better. Trying to tackle racism by continually bringing up race doesn't make sense to me.

Equality on the other hand is a great ideal, almost unattainable, but great nonetheless. I don't see where the inequality is in football.

[the goal machine 7,813]

How do you know what reasons they will be in it for?

I am always confused by the notion of diversity anyway. Somehow having a set number of women / foreign people / people with a different skin colour makes everything better. Trying to tackle racism by continually bringing up race doesn't make sense to me.

Equality on the other hand is a great ideal, almost unattainable, but great nonetheless. I don't see where the inequality is in football.

Through their actions. Some, like the EDL and SDL are clearly racist, while there is ethnic interest groups who try to promote equality.

That's a fair point and I believe the best qualified person should get the job, no matter what race they are.

Here's the points raised in a BBC article:

• why there are so many black players, but so few black managers or directors;
  
• why the notion of reporting an allegation of racist abuse to the police without witnessing it yourself is, according to some, so outlandish, even when the landmark MacPherson Report enshrines the right of people to do exactly that;
  
• why so many think it so wrong for Chelsea to complain to the FA once one of their players has come to them with an allegation of racial abuse (does the fact that it involves a referee mean it should just be swept under the carpet?);
  
• why the mere concept of a body that would speak on behalf of a group of players that feel under-represented is regarded with such horror;
  
• why asking fans to cease chanting a term that many Jews find highly offensive is seen as unnecessary interference;
  
• why those in the grassroots of the game who complain to their County FAs about cases of racist abuse find themselves waiting months before anything happens;
  
• why, unlike the rest of society, those accused of racial abuse are not suspended pending the outcome of any investigation.
  

[Jeff crap in the head 120]

Through their actions. Some, like the EDL and SDL are clearly racist, while there is ethnic interest groups who try to promote equality.

That's a fair point and I believe the best qualified person should get the job, no matter what race they are.

Here's the points raised in a BBC article:

• 1why there are so many black players, but so few black managers or directors;
  
• 2why the notion of reporting an allegation of racist abuse to the police without witnessing it yourself is, according to some, so outlandish, even when the landmark MacPherson Report enshrines the right of people to do exactly that;
  
• 3why so many think it so wrong for Chelsea to complain to the FA once one of their players has come to them with an allegation of racial abuse (does the fact that it involves a referee mean it should just be swept under the carpet?);
  
• 4why the mere concept of a body that would speak on behalf of a group of players that feel under-represented is regarded with such horror;
  
• 5why asking fans to cease chanting a term that many Jews find highly offensive is seen as unnecessary interference;
  
• 6why those in the grassroots of the game who complain to their County FAs about cases of racist abuse find themselves waiting months before anything happens;
  
• 7why, unlike the rest of society, those accused of racial abuse are not suspended pending the outcome of any investigation.
  

I'm not sure I would class the EDL and SDL as a single ethnic pressure / interest group. Political / Nationalist group yes.

I agree wholeheartedly, always should be best person for the job no matter what.

1: I'm not sure, perhaps people should ask black players why they aren't going into management in the UK. I certainly don't think it is a race issue.

2: Reporting an allegation of racist abuse without witnessing it? How does that work?

3: It seemed a little like sour grapes. But whatever anyone thinks, they are able to complain. in the case in point there is zero evidence. What should happen to people who falsely accuse others of racism?

4: I'm sure you can read the posts above to see people's views on that.

5: Offense is taken, not given. In my opinion of course. It's right that people should be able to voice their disgust if they find something offensive. It's also right that people should be able to tell them where to go.

6: Not sure, don't know much about this.

7: That would be insane. The accusation of racism is used liberally enough as it is.

[the goal machine 7,813]

I'm not sure I would class the EDL and SDL as a single ethnic pressure / interest group. Political / Nationalist group yes.

I agree wholeheartedly, always should be best person for the job no matter what.

1: I'm not sure, perhaps people should ask black players why they aren't going into management in the UK. I certainly don't think it is a race issue.

2: Reporting an allegation of racist abuse without witnessing it? How does that work?

3: It seemed a little like sour grapes. But whatever anyone thinks, they are able to complain. in the case in point there is zero evidence. What should happen to people who falsely accuse others of racism?

4: I'm sure you can read the posts above to see people's views on that.

5: Offense is taken, not given. In my opinion of course. It's right that people should be able to voice their disgust if they find something offensive. It's also right that people should be able to tell them where to go.

6: Not sure, don't know much about this.

7: That would be insane. The accusation of racism is used liberally enough as it is.

Just to clarify, those are not my views just thought they'd make for an interesting debate. Number 5 is the most ridiculous however

[dummiesoot 16,115]

I heard a guy from the black lawyers mob and i am sure he basically had Clattenberg guilty as charged. Definitely some timmish tendencies with that mob.

[Fastrax 274]

Well, I don't think a group set up to defend a discriminated-against ethnic groups rights is racist but a group which only allowed white people in would be which was made solely to exclude others. Obviously, if the Society of Black lawyers was discriminating against white people then it would be a vastly different story.

OK, lets have a society of white lawyers but just let blacks in to be safe.

[Fastrax 274]

The EDL aren't nationalists.

[Jeff crap in the head 120]

Just to clarify, those are not my views just thought they'd make for an interesting debate. Number 5 is the most ridiculous however

Ok fair enough, just addressing the points.

What's up with number 5?

[WadeWilson 4,670]

I like Clark Carlisle. He even won 'Countdown!'

That peter Herbert cunt on the other hand... I wish he would fuck off. He is just a publicity-whore and courts controversy for the sake of attention. To be fair, many journalists have been on to him from the start and the guy should just be laughed at.

[WadeWilson 4,670]

The EDL aren't nationalists.

They're just twats.

[the goal machine 7,813]

Ok fair enough, just addressing the points.

What's up with number 5?

Herbert was the only one who complained about Spurs fans singing "yid". And they're the ones who are called it.

[Fastrax 274]

They're just twats.