Quiet Jim 897 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Is it possible to merge the old and new holding companies given the result of the FTTT? The Oldco is in £20m-£25m worth of debt is that correct? If the money could be raised to buy the Oldco from the share issue or other 3rd party (King, Park, etc) could it in theory be done?If both companies are brought together and all debts are paid off then it's another thing we can be proud of.Don't care, club is an entity that has been transferred to a new holding company.We don't do tainted liquidations! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueblue72 8 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 What is the honour in paying back the remaining tax, when HMRC drove us into liquidation in the first place, and refused to bargain?Fuck them - They cost us millions that could have gone towards paying up the old debts.Everyone lost because of Murray's recklessness with a dodgy tax avoidance scheme, and HMRC's refusal to make a reasonable deal at the time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermopylae 15,287 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 It's got nothing to do with history. I know we still have our history. It's about paying off all our debts and moving forward with our heads held high. We tried to pay off the debt using a CVA before and HMRC crushed it. We should look to pay off our debts and if they don't let us then fine, we can always say we tried.It's very noble to pay all the debts but it's worth remembering that we lost a lot of money on the players who up and left and we will never get that back Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueoutthedome 87 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I would like us to try and merge the two company's go for a cva and pay pence in the pound just like Dundee and Motherwell and then get our money from the SPL and the SFA they stole of us and also the money from Jelavicand all the other players that left for nothing there must be millions also we would have three years books for a fast track to Europe if we won a cup. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMB 14,167 Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 I would like us to try and merge the two company's go for a cva and pay pence in the pound just like Dundee and Motherwell and then get our money from the SPL and the SFA they stole of us and also the money from Jelavicand all the other players that left for nothing there must be millions also we would have three years books for a fast track to Europe if we won a cup.That's a great point. The Oldco is due money from the sale of Jelavic to the tune of £2m. Getting the accounts back would put us in a very good position to say 'we can play in Europe'. I don't think people understand what a major twist, in Rangers favour, it would be to buy the Oldco and incorporate.If we don't do it I think we'll forever regret it. I'm buying a share in Rangers this December. If Mr.Green stated that he wanted to buy back the Oldco I'd buy more! Happy to give my money towards that cause. The Fighting Fund should even be used to obtain it.Get it done Mr.Green Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al 55 9,317 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 That's a great point. The Oldco is due money from the sale of Jelavic to the tune of £2m. Getting the accounts back would put us in a very good position to say 'we can play in Europe'. I don't think people understand what a major twist, in Rangers favour, it would be to buy the Oldco and incorporate.If we don't do it I think we'll forever regret it. I'm buying a share in Rangers this December. If Mr.Green stated that he wanted to buy back the Oldco I'd buy more! Happy to give my money towards that cause. The Fighting Fund should even be used to obtain it.Get it done Mr.Green CW never submitted accounts in his year in charge so the oldco don't have 3 years accounts either. Still think its worth investigating though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMB 14,167 Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 Still think its worth investigating though.It is! Maybe this time we can get a CVA agreed. A CVA would mean we get the Oldco for £1m-£2m. That's a small price to pay and without question we'll get that money back. We're owed! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaffinoz 49 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 If we merged with oldco would we then not also be in a position to go after the players who jumped ship technically breaching contracts? Davis, Naismith etc were all on long deals surely we must be due something legally? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markybear 136 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 If we merged with oldco would we then not also be in a position to go after the players who jumped ship technically breaching contracts? Davis, Naismith etc were all on long deals surely we must be due something legally?Can of worms was opened yesterday, I'd imagine there's lots of ppl woke up in a slightly cold sweat this morn Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
justiston 91 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 CVA wouldn't be an option surely, as HMRC are still owed millions from the old company, and HMRC never agree to CVA's, so non-starter imo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMB 14,167 Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 We have a share issue coming up that's to raise £20m. If we could obtain the old company for just a few million then I think we should do it. Bill Miller spoke about forming a new company and using it as an incubator. We wouldn't need to instantly incorporate thus risking the collapse of both. We could hang on to the old company and nurse it back to health (even if it took years). When both companies are in good health and the time is right, incorporate both. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigie79 67 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 no thanks, i dont care about the oldco. its just an empty shell of a company. History belongs to a badge, not a company number.I agree with we would only be paying money out to buy a company number and i am comfortable with the number we have now.Unless we could buy it for a nominal fee or somebody wants to clear the debt then gift it to us. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al 55 9,317 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 If we merged with oldco would we then not also be in a position to go after the players who jumped ship technically breaching contracts? Davis, Naismith etc were all on long deals surely we must be due something legally?I doubt it, the players went for nothing because they chose not to TUPE over to the new company. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZZed 4,510 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Player contracts would still be valid with the oldco so we could chase transfer fees. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al 55 9,317 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Player contracts would still be valid with the oldco so we could chase transfer fees.I don't believe that, if that were the case they would still be valid. If the oldco exited via a CVA that doesn't necessarily mean everything that has happened in the meantime can be disregarded.I don't think so anyway.IMO it just means that the oldco debts would need to be paid and any money due to the oldco would now go to them instead of creditors, with regards players contracts when the oldco began the liquidation process the players had the option to TUPE over to the newco or leave. I don't see how players contracts could possibly be re-instated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirrhillLoyal 318 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Oh how I've missed talking about CVA, HMRC, BTC etc etc.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZZed 4,510 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I don't believe that, if that were the case they would still be valid. If the oldco exited via a CVA that doesn't necessarily mean everything that has happened in the meantime can be disregarded.I don't think so anyway.IMO it just means that the oldco debts would need to be paid and any money due to the oldco would now go to them instead of creditors, with regards players contracts when the oldco began the liquidation process the players had the option to TUPE over to the newco or leave. I don't see how players contracts could possibly be re-instated.Oldco are suspended from trading due to thier present circumstances but if they were not liquidated they could CVA, be merged with newco and the contracts would still valid. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeWallaceRFC 3,920 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 The oldco has far too much debt to even think about it, there's still at least £40million.£27million from Ticketus, £15million for the small tax case and then there was hundreds of other creditors that probably amounted up to a lot.It was only a company, it's in our history now. It's like CG said, every club changes owner plenty of times in it's history. Only club in Scotland to be debt free, and we're projected to make over £15million profit by the end of next season.The oldco still couldn't play in Europe, it has no accounts as CW never filed any. Plus, it's not like we're going to be reinstated back into The SPHell.Fuck the lot of them, they can die by their decision to vote no. We'll go up as they come down, we're where the money is at. The Future's Bright (for us)!And we finally have somebody at the club who will stand up for us and tell the authorities exactly what he thinks of them, no matter the fines etc he gets.WATP Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZZed 4,510 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Yea, you'r probably right Lee. But it would be nice to get our money back for the ones who left. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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