Clyde Valley 234 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 don't think so, but the amount of groups being formed to "voice fan opinion" is outrageous. The sayings "United we Stand, Divided we fall" and "Strength In Numbers" is something these groups never seem to take on board.ORSA is another. They were always OK when I visited that part of the world. Support Rangers, drink beer and shag wee Chinese burds. No politics. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st_Jan_1994 4,868 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Thats why it is important to have checks and measures in the constitution - that will be made public as wellYou can have all the checks and measures you want but it won't stop it - how could it possibly?You've seen (for example) how public opinion at Ibrox can change with the fans the minute sorone goes to the Record with a headline or a new wee group starts with aims in mind That can't be stopped if fans with shares latch onto their propoganda and use their votes accordingly due to it Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky True Legend 2,682 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 The Louden Tavern. Let me be clear at the outset that I think you have done a fantastic job so far in representing what should be the situation viz. one Rangers family. However, I do feel that you are now taking sides with regard to fan ownership. Put it like this. If there was a group openly campaigning against fan ownership, would you 1. offer then the same facilities as given to SDS and 2. plug there agenda on forums the way you do this group. Anyone can claim they are putting Rangers first and I do not doubt your sincerity but you are taking sides. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Louden Tavern 1,765 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 You can have all the checks and measures you want but it won't stop it - how could it possibly?You've seen (for example) how public opinion at Ibrox can change with the fans the minute sorone goes to the Record with a headline or a new wee group starts with aims in mindThat can't be stopped if fans with shares latch onto their propoganda and use their votes accordingly due to itWell I think the remit of this is for fans to own shares and eventually we have the transparency we all want from the board so that there is no second guessing in the press - we know where everyone stands and so are not see easily manipulated. IMO the reason opinion can sway so much is a result of a lack of info - which the transparency and consultancy that this group hopes to achieve would avoid.That is the way I see it anyways - I'm genuinely optimistic about this Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st_Jan_1994 4,868 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Well I think the remit of this is for fans to own shares and eventually we have the transparency we all want from the board so that there is no second guessing in the press - we know where everyone stands and so are not see easily manipulated. IMO the reason opinion can sway so much is a result of a lack of info - which the transparency and consultancy that this group hopes to achieve would avoid.That is the way I see it anyways - I'm genuinely optimistic about thisFair enough but what sort of transparency do you want? There's been a couple if investigations into who owns the assets of our club and who's in cahoots with all - at the cost of several hundred grand - all clear All the money is accounted for and signed off in audited accounts even if some folk don't like how it's been spent - again all clear Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Valley 234 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Well I think the remit of this is for fans to own shares and eventually we have the transparency we all want from the board so that there is no second guessing in the press - we know where everyone stands and so are not see easily manipulated. IMO the reason opinion can sway so much is a result of a lack of info - which the transparency and consultancy that this group hopes to achieve would avoid.That is the way I see it anyways - I'm genuinely optimistic about thisGood reason.What about fans who cant afford to join this scheme or don't want to purchase more shares? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Louden Tavern 1,765 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 The Louden Tavern. Let me be clear at the outset that I think you have done a fantastic job so far in representing what should be the situation viz. one Rangers family. However, I do feel that you are now taking sides with regard to fan ownership. Put it like this. If there was a group openly campaigning against fan ownership, would you 1. offer then the same facilities as given to SDS and 2. plug there agenda on forums the way you do this group. Anyone can claim they are putting Rangers first and I do not doubt your sincerity but you are taking sides.1. Yes we would offer our facilities - same as we do for all Rangers Groups that have asked. If anyone wants help then come to us and we will do our best to help you.2. Originally our position was open to the idea but not sold. As time has went on and more information has become available then I believe that this could be very good for the Rangers support. 1 year ago if you said fan ownership to me then I wouldn't have been enthusiastic but I really like the way this is being pitched. I like the possibilities that are possible with a CIC. I could see a day where we Own 25% of the shares and then use the extra money generated to improve the stadium or get a better team on the pitch. Those possibilities excite me. If I did not believe in this or I thought it something that could potentially fragment the club further I would not be involved. I see this as encompassing all the current groups and all Rangers Fans not in groups. Anyone can join this and you don't have to believe in anything other than putting the club first.What I will say is that I have still not seen all the minutia of all that is involved in the CIC yet and my opinion is still dependent on it all being what I consider to be right for the club and the support.I would also say that I haven't really encountered an argument against fan ownership/involvement that I have yet found compelling. Most arguments against it I don't believe apply to the CIC as I have seen it presented.But that is just my opinion on it - if there is anything that I can get you to ask to clarify our position then ask away. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Louden Tavern 1,765 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Fair enough but what sort of transparency do you want? There's been a couple if investigations into who owns the assets of our club and who's in cahoots with all - at the cost of several hundred grand - all clearAll the money is accounted for and signed off in audited accounts even if some folk don't like how it's been spent - again all clearWith the club or with the CIC? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Louden Tavern 1,765 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Good reason.What about fans who cant afford to join this scheme or don't want to purchase more shares?Then they won't get a vote - I believe the information should be available though. I'm not a fan things remaining behind walls that separate our support Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st_Jan_1994 4,868 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 With the club or with the CIC?The club You mentioned transparency from the board right at the start Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Louden Tavern 1,765 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 The clubYou mentioned transparency from the board right at the startTransparency and consultation. By that I believe it about the board of the club being upfront with the fans and working to a common aim. Richard spoke several times about how clubs often with to 'cover their workings' with interactions with the support. I think it would allow the fans to base their opinions in reality rather than what they are deducing from sources that are not the club themselvesNow that is not a specific criticism leveled at the current board - I personally think GW is a credible individual who will be working to the best of his ability and has asked for his 120 days and so will have them from me.I would also like to add that I don't believe there should be a 'fan rep' on the board. I think only professional people with specific skills should be involved on any future board appointment. We need the best people for the club imo Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st_Jan_1994 4,868 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Transparency and consultation. By that I believe it about the board of the club being upfront with the fans and working to a common aim. Richard spoke several times about how clubs often with to 'cover their workings' with interactions with the support. I think it would allow the fans to base their opinions in reality rather than what they are deducing from sources that are not the club themselvesNow that is not a specific criticism leveled at the current board - I personally think GW is a credible individual who will be working to the best of his ability and has asked for his 120 days and so will have them from me.I would also like to add that I don't believe there should be a 'fan rep' on the board. I think only professional people with specific skills should be involved on any future board appointment. We need the best people for the club imoAgain fair enough but I'll ask again what sort of transparency do people want? The club can't tell the fans everything upon demand How many times have the club come out and quoshed unfounded rumour after rumour? They do it often but people pick and choose to believe outside sources to the clubs detriment They've got clarity on the vitals but some people choose to ignore it Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Louden Tavern 1,765 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Again fair enough but I'll ask again what sort of transparency do people want? The club can't tell the fans everything upon demandHow many times have the club come out and quoshed unfounded rumour after rumour? They do it often but people pick and choose to believe outside sources to the clubs detrimentThey've got clarity on the vitals but some people choose to ignore itWell at 25% ownership we would have full transparency on the financial position of the club and not have to quash rumour at club level as we the fans would do it (just an example with the recent stuff the club have had to come out and deal with).You see where I'm coming from?Edit: Again just an example - I'm sure the more learned in the CICs could give you better info than that Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st_Jan_1994 4,868 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Well at 25% ownership we would have full transparency on the financial position of the club and not have to quash rumour at club level as we the fans would do it (just an example with the recent stuff the club have had to come out and deal with).You see where I'm coming from?Edit: Again just an example - I'm sure the more learned in the CICs could give you better info than thatYup I see where your coming from and that's fair enough 25% stake of our club run by our fans is terrifying though to flip it Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawsburst 1,381 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Yup I see where your coming from and that's fair enough25% stake of our club run by our fans is terrifying though to flip itThe annual audited accounts give full transparency...by statute. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st_Jan_1994 4,868 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 The annual audited accounts give full transparency...by statute. Agreed Yet people want to know where the money went Strange Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hubbard 280 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 The annual audited accounts give full transparency...by statute. I lets wait for the accounts Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st_Jan_1994 4,868 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I lets wait for the accountsThey've been released Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hubbard 280 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 They've been releasedthought you were talking about next years Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st_Jan_1994 4,868 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Next years will make for good reading IMO and a lot of this nonsense forgotten about Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawsburst 1,381 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Agreed Yet people want to know where the money went StrangeThe truth is simpler the fans or some fans want to tell the owners how to run the shop without the responsibility of buying the owners out, partial minority ownership is a nonsense a bit like glorified blazer chasing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachothelegend 1,932 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 The truth is simpler the fans or some fans want to tell the owners how to run the shop without the responsibility of buying the owners out, partial minority ownership is a nonsense a bit like glorified blazer chasing.You cant run a Business Like that .Fact. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky True Legend 2,682 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 The Louden Tavern. Thank you for your reply. Sorry to be so long in getting back to you. I take your points on board but feel that you have confirmed that you are taking sides. You have every right so to do. After all, this is a discussion forum. You seem to hang on Atkinson's every word yet he still has not answered all my questions put to him. I just do not trust him. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Hume 13,122 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 So much to take in, but good luck to Rangers First.One question though, What if Dave King buys the lot, will he be eager to be put on the spot by the fans / minor shareholders?This question, would apply to any potential new major shareholder. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawsburst 1,381 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 So much to take in, but good luck to Rangers First.One question though, What if Dave King buys the lot, will he be eager to be put on the spot by the fans / minor shareholders?This question, would apply to any potential new major shareholder. DK has no interest or desire for fan ownership as he has made crystal clear. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.