Auchenhowie - long term serious issue for us

[Brian Fantana 28,894]

16 hours ago, VERITAS VOS LIBREBETS said:

Ah but at Auchenhowie we teach 'pitch geography' 'loading' and 'train well'

Add to that expert tweeters, Nando's food critics and good golfers.

 

none too shabby on a karaoke either.....

[Blue Avenger 22,567]

There's a better chance of bringing through players with Whitney at the SOS Academy. At least they won't be chained with 433. FFS, I even read a tweet from Whitney that he wasn't happy with how we are set up.

BTW, I'm in more of a bad mood than normal since Wednesday, but if we sneak a wee win against the sheep, Mark will become the best again. Well untill he drops more points. Poor sod can't win. Now if we change our shape to maybe a wee 442 or a 352 depending on the oppo, we've cracked it. A big breakthrough in the bosses mind set and we're half way there.

[Perth_Campsie_Ger 18,091]

1 reason could be that the youngsters get a chance to develop and get some game time with a less expectant crowd that doesn't jump on the youngsters backs when they make mistakes etc

[Blue Avenger 22,567]

4 hours ago, trueblueal said:

The problem we may encounter is if Warbrton leave and takes his staff with him from various levels of the club.  He has made his connections very important to the entire club structure. The board have bought into the technical, possession based training etc which are replicated at all levels. If we employed a first team coach with a vastly different outlook we'd be throwing that away. 

Look at Barça, Ajax, Porto, Bayern, Dortmund. The coach changes but the general style remains. Maybe gets tweaked but never abandoned. We should be doing the same. This is a long term change of mindset. 

Mourinho and Van Gaal before him abandoned the cut and thrust style of Man Utd and they look like a team that doesn't have an identity. The fans will tire of it soon enough. 

When Warbs eventually goes (and hope that he turns the form around and it's many years away) the new manager must fit the possession style. 

Pep G turns up and says your youth development system is shite and this is what to do. I'm all ears.

Some nobody arrives from nobody united and tells you the youth system is shite and this is what to do. I've just went deaf.

[trueblueal 2,117]

11 minutes ago, Blue Avenger said:

Pep G turns up and says your youth development system is shite and this is what to do. I'm all ears.

Some nobody arrives from nobody united and tells you the youth system is shite and this is what to do. I've just went deaf.

I don't think that's a fair assessment of Warburtons CV at youth level TBH but OK if we can get Pep I'll happily abandon the plan!

[K.A.I 36,183]

5 hours ago, MasterD said:

Do you have proof this was all the managers doing? And not done by the academy staff.

We had staff flying around going to look at how other teams do things before MW came in, Mulholland was already trying to change many things, so why does MW specifically get the praise?

Why do we have guys in charge of the academy if MW is actually doing it all in your opinion.

I think you are clutching at your last straw regarding MW.

Some of that listed we had been doing before Warburton too - the push for a colts side, NI cup, foreign games - all that is nothing new.

The newer modern coaching methods listed like bio-branding - I don't know enough about - Warburton probably has brought that in exclusively and is fair comment to point out.

But he made a point about Smith's youth policies not being great (and I agree) but he touched on youngsters wasting away until their release date ... that is still happening with us. We are told results don't matter at that level it's about development and players being ready for first team action ... where's that happening then? that Essendoh guy has bitched about this for the past few days by putting people on block, making posts about greetin' faced bastards and saying he needs a break from here all because some people don't buy his optimistic opinions on the youth set up.

The youth set up is an absolute mess as far as I can see. This is well into the second year of the new changes apparently made and it's not really made a blind bit of difference. 

If anyone wants to come back at me and says it will take years then fine. Maybe I can give my opinion again in "years" and not get moaned at if I'm proven right. 

Our club is a shambles from top to bottom from boardroom to youths. It's obvious. 

 

[A.T.G 10,773]

There are two great advantages of having Auchenhowie that we are  getting the benefit of

1. A great sell to interested players

2. Excellent facilities and training centre

We get nothing else from it, although, having said that I am sure once we build the stand we will see a batch of Messis come through the door 

[Essandoh 21,384]

Every now and then the block feature allows a post through the crack and I get to see that absolute drivel. You're the only person I have on block for the entire forum. Keep trying to discredit me though and paint yourself as a man open to all discussion. Nobody forgets your weekly tantrums. Ah well, it's entertaining at least. But not enough for me to want to see it every day.

Enjoy the game.

[johanhentze 14,327]

20 hours ago, Essandoh said:

There's a reason you and people of that same narrow minded ignorance aren't in charge of our youth system. Results in an utterly pointless youth league mean virtually nothing. You cannot analyse youth development through the same lense that you analyse senior football. It is as simple as that.

As for 'what has Warburton done', here's a very small number of his accomplishments:

Modern coaching initiatives 

Coerver Coaching http://rangers.co.uk/news/academy-news/gers-announce-coerver-partnership/

Bio-banding http://rangers.co.uk/news/academy-news/academy-trial-bio-banding/

Futsal initiative http://rangers.co.uk/news/academy-news/academy-implements-fustal/

Competitive youth experience 

Euro Games http://rangers.co.uk/news/academy-news/gers-star-euro-games/

Copa Del Agatha http://rangers.co.uk/news/academy-news/gers-impress-holland/

Youdan Trophy http://rangers.co.uk/news/academy-news/gers-prepare-youdan-trophy/

Durban 19s Tournament http://rangers.co.uk/news/academy-news/gers-brazillian-defeat-durban/

SuperCup NI http://rangers.co.uk/news/academy-news/gers-go-globe-glory/

Push for a Colts side http://rangers.co.uk/news/academy-news/murty-hopes-gers-colt-team/

Staff

Murty joins http://rangers.co.uk/news/academy-news/gers-academy-appoint-murty/

McCallum joins http://rangers.co.uk/news/academy-news/mccallum-joins-academy-staff/

Promotion of Craig Mulholland http://rangers.co.uk/talent/craig-mulholland/

Youth intake

Open trials initiative similar to Ajax http://rangers.co.uk/news/academy-news/academy-open-trials/

Boclair Partnership http://rangers.co.uk/news/academy-news/boclair-partnership-kicks-off/

--

Add to that the analysis programmes, the education projects, even yes, the promotion of a technical possession based system of football which was the dream of every Rangers fan in the 2000s.

All of that is a mere drop in an ocean of what Warburton has done for our youth set up. He's the most forward thinking manager with regards to youth development that we've had in the modern era. I don't give a fuck if you dismiss all this because you're already blinded. Nothing you say can deny the progress we've made in youth development under Warburton and his staff.

Spot on. This WILL stand us in good stead in the future, and we will no doubt develope it further. Some people have completely made up their mind and will never change their opinion though. 

Entire countries have went through the very thing (holland, spain, germany, belgium, iceland) and it generally takes them about 10 years with a fuck load invested. In Glasgow, though, if youve been in the job 2 weeks then why arent you already promoting players to the first team?!  'cause its shite' 

time!!!!

[K.A.I 36,183]

13 minutes ago, Essandoh said:

Every now and then the block feature allows a post through the crack and I get to see that absolute drivel. You're the only person I have on block for the entire forum. Keep trying to discredit me though and paint yourself as a man open to all discussion. Nobody forgets your weekly tantrums. Ah well, it's entertaining at least. But not enough for me to want to see it every day.

Enjoy the game.

So I'm not really on block then? 

I'm not trying to discredit anyone. I'm pointing out that not everything you mentioned in your list is all new and exclusive to Warburton. It's false to paint it like that.

I don't throw tantrums, either. I give my opinion and it's people like you that throw wee tantrums putting me on block (but still commenting on posts anyway) 

[cushynumber 25,178]

6 hours ago, Elfideldo said:

As I have said on here a few times it will take time to recover from the damage done by previous HOY.

Most clubs have a few players at each age group that come through their setup. Rangers have ONE 19 year old Ryan Hardie, all other players have been released.

As a result the Development League side is made up of 17 &  18 year olds. Lots of changes have been made and they will take time. Will they work ? Who knows but we now have something like a plan and no longer follow "give me an athlete and I'll make him a football player" philosophy.

is that right? we released all our under 19's cause they weren't up to scratch? thats a damning indictment of the players themselves and the coach system that tries to bring them on.

[K.A.I 36,183]

7 minutes ago, johanhentze said:

Spot on. This WILL stand us in good stead in the future, and we will no doubt develope it further. Some people have completely made up their mind and will never change their opinion though. 

Entire countries have went through the very thing (holland, spain, germany, belgium, iceland) and it generally takes them about 10 years with a fuck load invested. In Glasgow, though, if youve been in the job 2 weeks then why arent you already promoting players to the first team?!  'cause its shite' 

time!!!!

OK so no-one can have the opinion it's not working for at least another 8 years, is that what you are saying?

That's some way of going about stamping out debate on something you don't like or agree with (not you personally) ..

I might start doing that myself - plucking out high denomination numbers and saying that's how long it will take so just sit there and assume it's all going well in that time when it isn't. 

[BridgeIsBlue 66,655]

Blocking people on the internet so you don't need to see their nasty posts  

Tragic.

[Smile 26,622]

1 minute ago, BridgeIsBlue said:

Blocking people on the internet so you don't need to see their nasty posts  

Tragic.

 

They Hurt your Heart though.

[BridgeIsBlue 66,655]

Just now, Smile said:

They Hurt your Heart though.

You see words..are like bullets.

[johanhentze 14,327]

1 minute ago, K.A.I said:

OK so no-one can have the opinion it's not working for at least another 8 years, is that what you are saying?

That's some way of going about stamping out debate on something you don't like or agree with (not you personally) ..

I might start doing that myself - plucking out high denomination numbers and saying that's how long it will take so just sit there and assume it's all going well in that time when it isn't. 

Its not what im saying at all.. When it has been proven to take about 10 years in orher places then it would be rather silly to write it off, wouldnt you say? Sone things take time. 

[RFCJoshy1690 72]

Don't think Its an issue it's great to have at our disposal but it's definatley not being used to its full potential, I know people rhyme of players like Hutton, ferguson, mcgregor etc who's came through it and found relative success but I can't help the feeling it's been slightly underwhelming thus far

[cushynumber 25,178]

Ok given we have released all our 19's and are currently working with 18's and under - and have been doing that for what -  a year? how long do we expect it to take to get players who are able to transition into the first team? a year? two?

Alan Hutton joined us at 16 and made his debut at 18, Barry Ferguson made his debut 19 for example

 

[K.A.I 36,183]

Just now, cushynumber said:

Ok given we have released all our 19's and are currently working with 18's and under - and have been doing that for what -  a year? how long do we expect it to take to get players who are able to transition into the first team? a year? two?

Alan Hutton joined us at 16 and made his debut at 18, Barry Ferguson made his debut 19 for example

 

Good question mate. I don't think you can put a number on it tbh, if they're good enough they are old enough but there obviously still has to be a degree of nurturing there and preparing them for the step-up. 

I think a mental strength and winning mentality plays a big part in it too - despite what others have said to me in disagreement talking about the unders before.

[graeme_4 35,330]

Hilarious that some bangers on here think we should be churning out top notch youth players immediately, and that it's Warburton's fault we are not  

A youth policy doesn't reap the benefits after 18 months. Your talking 7 or 8 years before you see a 'true' product of any changes. 

I get that people are annoyed at the first team results, but people who have never been to a youth game are on here slating MW and the youth set-up - which is fucking ridiculous quite frankly. 

[Spiderpig 176]

I love how the youth team is set up, forcing players to play in grades above, meaning they are always challenged, but we are not an easy team to bring youth players on;our support are not the most patient, McKay is the latest to get moaned at for a mistake, but Adam was the same. We want one of our own to come through but we tend to not give them much slack. 

[K.A.I 36,183]

13 minutes ago, graeme_4 said:

Hilarious that some bangers on here think we should be churning out top notch youth players immediately, and that it's Warburton's fault we are not  

A youth policy doesn't reap the benefits after 18 months. Your talking 7 or 8 years before you see a 'true' product of any changes. 

I get that people are annoyed at the first team results, but people who have never been to a youth game are on here slating MW and the youth set-up - which is fucking ridiculous quite frankly. 

Do you not think deep into year 2 we should have someone ready for the first team or at the very least a decent unders team that wins regular at their level? 

How's it your a banger if you think that should be happening?

Also baulking at saying it's Warburton's fault we're not ... people can't have it two-ways - they can't praise him for what they see as revamps and changes that he's made, but all of a sudden isn't responsible when it doesn't work? he's either responsible for the footballing ethos in the club from top to bottom, or not ... he's either made these changes including appointments or not.

For what it's worth I think the infastructure is a lot better since he's came than we had in previous years under guys like Sinclair and Gordon Durie/Durrant but it's not really saying much either. It couldn't have been much worse.

And I've been to youth games. A lot last season including trips to Valencia in January to see them play in tournaments, stayed in the same complex as them, watched their training, had plenty in-depth conversations with Mulholland, done N.Ireland tours with them, been invited to Auchenhowie for closed door games and also Lennoxtown for games against Celtic where your name is an invite only.

I'd like to think I am in a position to have an opinion on it without being called a banger or told I'm on block lists for hissy fits.

I get for real results it won't happen right away - but you've still got to see some progressions somewhere - of which there's none. That's a point people are missing when they chest thump about the youth set-up.

[Spiderpig 176]

3 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

Do you not think deep into year 2 we should have someone ready for the first team or at the very least a decent unders team that wins regular at their level? 

How's it your a banger if you think that should be happening?

Also saying baulking at saying it's Warburton's fault we're not ... people can't have it two-ways - they can't praise him for what they see as revamps and changes that he's made, but all of a sudden isn't responsible when it doesn't work? he's either responsible for the footballing ethos in the club from top to bottom, or not ... he's either made these changes including appointments or not.

For what it's worth I think the infastructure is a lot better since he's came than we had in previous years under guys like Sinclair and Gordon Durie/Durrant but it's not really saying much either. It couldn't have been much worse.

And I've been to youth games. A lot last season including trips to Valencia in January to see them play in tournaments, stayed in the same complex as them, watched their training, had plenty in-depth conversations with Mulholland, done N.Ireland tours with them, been invited to Auchenhowie for closed door games and also Lennoxtown for games against Celtic where your name is an invite only.

I'd like to think I am in a position to have an opinion on it without being called a banger or told I'm on block lists for hissy fits.

I get for real results it won't happen right away - but you've still got to see some progressions somewhere - of which there's none. That's a point people are missing when they chest thump about the youth set-up.

Mullholland has stated they can't be judged until season 20/21 as that will be the first group of players coming through that they have been responsible for all the way through the system, they have stated it take a minimum of 5 years.

[K.A.I 36,183]

Just now, Spiderpig said:

Mullholland has stated they can't be judged until season 20/21 as that will be the first group of players coming through that they have been responsible for all the way through the system, they have stated it take a minimum of 5 years.

I understand that. I've heard a lot of people say it will take years.

But what I'm saying is that you can still have an opinion in the meantime - good or bad. 

If things aren't going great or you think in 5 years time we still won't have the results to show then it doesn't mean you are wrong just because you have to wait 5 years for the result. 

The problem is the ones on here who are getting quite vocal in defence of our youth set-up, you can't exactly come back and say to them in 5 years time "see I was right, you owe me an apology for calling me a banger" it just makes you look like a prick but you need to put up with people in the meantime telling you your wrong and don't know what you are talking about when you don't see any progressions.

I mean do you think nothing will happen and then bang overnight in about 5 years time we will have a Man United class of 94? as I keep saying you see progressions until that stage, certainly after 2 years. We don't have this. 

[Blue Avenger 22,567]

9 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

Mullholland has stated they can't be judged until season 20/21 as that will be the first group of players coming through that they have been responsible for all the way through the system, they have stated it take a minimum of 5 years.

Oh well, setting himself up for a cushy number and an easy wage for a few years before he is judged and proven a failure. Nice work if you can get it.