Warbs “ We Got To Learn From It"

[K.A.I 36,183]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

I just meant in terms of his ability. Only time I've watched them in the last four years has been against us (and maybe one other game so literally seen fuck all of the boy) so wanted something of a benchmark to measure against. 

He was over-rated. That's what we do with youngsters. I lost count of the "next big thing"s over the last while. Mitchell, Murdoch, Gallacher, Hardie, Macleod, McKay but he was also a very good player. Shows it in the way he was shunted to accommodate others as he had the ability to adjust (similar to Charlie Adam being punted wide left here). 

Again fair do's 

[Bobby Hume 13,122]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

Almost all of those are things that should be done by ANY team, not just one who wants to play a particular style of football. I don't think they're flaws in the system more that they are simply flaws in the players' competence. 

?

In a very small nutshell mate ..... but ultimately a very large part of the problem we are having when trying to get points on the board.

[STEPPS BOY 74,032]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

How many teams have a handful ready to step into their senior side? There's a few who could make the step up now and contribute something (Hardie, Thompson) and a couple others who, while not necessarily good enough to come in and start games regularly, could come off the bench and offer a little bit cover (Burt, both McCrories) and another few who I think will be there in a few years (Rudden, Gilmour, Barjonas, Beerman). 

Decent post this.

I'm not sure re: Hardie but agree with the rest.I'd add Jack Thomson and Dapo Mpede to that list.

i like the look of the boy Beerman and would like him to be Wallace's back-up from now on.

 

[The Dude 20,026]

35 minutes ago, STEPPS BOY said:

Decent post this.

I'm not sure re: Hardie but agree with the rest.I'd add Jack Thomson and Dapo Mpede to that list.

i like the look of the boy Beerman and would like him to be Wallace's back-up from now on.

 

Hardie will never be our number 9 but he could definitely contribute a few goals given the chance. Thomson's a good shout too. Not seen much of Mpede yet but have heard good things. Beerman's really impressed me. Been the only one of the new signings who have came in and immediately hit the ground running in the 20s

[graeme_4 34,615]

17 hours ago, The Dude said:

I see the 'we'd accept bad results if we see there's a philosophy in place' pish was in fact a load of pish.

70+% still want to give Warburton time, so there is obviously something in it. 

Results ultimately come first, but a high percentage are bought into our new style / philosophy and the idea that it takes time. 

[graeme_4 34,615]

4 hours ago, Tenerife Bear said:

http://spfl.co.uk/development-league/

9 Rangers 15 3  2  2  1  0  7   3  1  4  12  16  -1  21

9th in table, 9th. A -1 goal difference and already lost 6 from only 15 games.

There has been 1 sub appearance from a current Murray Park graduate all season, 1.

That's Warburtons pathway. 

 

Under 20/19/17s (or whatever they are) isn't about results, it's about developing players who can step into our first team. 

None have really done that as yet, but given he's only been in the door 18 months so that's totally expected.

If we assume a 'graduate' should debut at 20, then your talking MW implementing ideas for these guys from 18 and a half - which isn't enough time to transform a youth player.  

The true outcomes of his ideas won't really be seen until 5 years plus IMO, when they've gone through a full cycle of learning in the academy. 

Doesn't suit the angry short-term loyal, but it's how I see it. Sure most youth coaches would feel the same. 

 

[Brian Fantana 28,894]

"Philosophy". Can we get serious here, scottish football is dog shit, managers know what our manager will do at the outset and he still has no plan B. He signs shite, is friends with that tarrier cunt across the city and we're expected to accept this current state of affairs. Fuck me.... 

[Brian Fantana 28,894]

5 minutes ago, graeme_4 said:

Under 20/19/17s (or whatever they are) isn't about results, it's about developing players who can step into our first team. 

None have really done that as yet, but given he's only been in the door 18 months so that's totally expected.

If we assume a 'graduate' should debut at 20, then your talking MW implementing ideas for these guys from 18 and a half - which isn't enough time to transform a youth player.  

The true outcomes of his ideas won't really be seen until 5 years plus IMO, when they've gone through a full cycle of learning in the academy. 

Doesn't suit the angry short-term loyal, but it's how I see it. Sure most youth coaches would feel the same. 

 

Sorry, you'll need to explain, what is Warburton doing with our youth teams exactly?

[graeme_4 34,615]

3 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Sorry, you'll need to explain, what is Warburton doing with our youth teams exactly?

No idea.

He's apparently implemented a consistent style / philosophy across all ages groups, with focus more on the technical aspects of the games. He (and the exec team) have brought in new people, with new ideas. 

Regardless of what he's done, you can't gauge the impact of it after him only being here for 18 months. Youth development is long term. 

 

[Tenerife Bear 1,748]

Just now, graeme_4 said:

Under 20/19/17s (or whatever they are) isn't about results, it's about developing players who can step into our first team. 

None have really done that as yet, but given he's only been in the door 18 months so that's totally expected.

If we assume a 'graduate' should debut at 20, then your talking MW implementing ideas for these guys from 18 and a half - which isn't enough time to transform a youth player.  

The true outcomes of his ideas won't really be seen until 5 years plus IMO, when they've gone through a full cycle of learning in the academy. 

Doesn't suit the angry short-term loyal, but it's how I see it. Sure most youth coaches would feel the same. 

 

We could debate all night whether results are important or not. You don't think they are, i think they most certainly are. We are breeding losers. Kids not only not good enough for the first team but whom don't appreciate or understand how important it is to win. Quite indicative of youth football in Scotland as a whole actually, possibly the only country in Europe where results are not recorded for kids matches and kids are not allowed to be competitive until they are teenagers. It's a joke. We are a country of perennial losers. Results at provincial clubs can be irrelevant, that is fine but at Rangers and Celtic, reults at every level are paramount. We should be bringing through boys who know how to run through brick walls to get a win or that know how to be cute enough to get that winning goal. 

Almost 2 years and we have seen nothing at all suggest there is any pathway or that he is willing to give kids a chance. 

20 would be 2, 3, sometimes 4 years later than other clubs. 20 isn't a youth anymore or a kid in fact. Players at 20 should already have a full season or two behind them as part of a first team squad. 

5 years is laughable. Think Billy Gilmour is going to hang about for 5 years playing with weans before the Magic Hat thinks he's good enough to come off the bench every now and then? Or Liam Burt? Or Roberts? McCrorie? Not a chance. 

We have too much dross blocking this mythical pathway. Imagine being a good wee player and watching shite like Dodoo coming in, watching Holt and Halliday playing every week, watching Danny Wilson, do you think our kids watch our first team and dream of one day being as good as them? Lol Young McCrorie or Lyon watching Kiernan and Tavernier and dreaming of being that good one day? C'mon ffs. 

 

[Brian Fantana 28,894]

3 minutes ago, graeme_4 said:

No idea.

He's apparently implemented a consistent style / philosophy across all ages groups, with focus more on the technical aspects of the games. He (and the exec team) have brought in new people, with new ideas. 

Regardless of what he's done, you can't gauge the impact of it after him only being here for 18 months. Youth development is long term. 

 

 he is first team manager and has fuck all to do with the youth set up. We haven't produced talent in years and by the look of it, we're not about to as the board will pay fuck all in. Wake up mate ffs. 

[K.A.I 36,183]

3 minutes ago, Tenerife Bear said:

We could debate all night whether results are important or not. You don't think they are, i think they most certainly are. We are breeding losers. Kids not only not good enough for the first team but whom don't appreciate or understand how important it is to win. Quite indicative of youth football in Scotland as a whole actually, possibly the only country in Europe where results are not recorded for kids matches and kids are not allowed to be competitive until they are teenagers. It's a joke. We are a country of perennial losers. Results at provincial clubs can be irrelevant, that is fine but at Rangers and Celtic, reults at every level are paramount. We should be bringing through boys who know how to run through brick walls to get a win or that know how to be cute enough to get that winning goal. 

Almost 2 years and we have seen nothing at all suggest there is any pathway or that he is willing to give kids a chance. 

20 would be 2, 3, sometimes 4 years later than other clubs. 20 isn't a youth anymore or a kid in fact. Players at 20 should already have a full season or two behind them as part of a first team squad. 

5 years is laughable. Think Billy Gilmour is going to hang about for 5 years playing with weans before the Magic Hat thinks he's good enough to come off the bench every now and then? Or Liam Burt? Or Roberts? McCrorie? Not a chance. 

We have too much dross blocking this mythical pathway. Imagine being a good wee player and watching shite like Dodoo coming in, watching Holt and Halliday playing every week, watching Danny Wilson, do you think our kids watch our first team and dream of one day being as good as them? Lol Young McCrorie or Lyon watching Kiernan and Tavernier and dreaming of being that good one day? C'mon ffs. 

 

Post of 2017 even if we are only 2 days into it 

[graeme_4 34,615]

10 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

 he is first team manager and has fuck all to do with the youth set up. We haven't produced talent in years and by the look of it, we're not about to as the board will pay fuck all in. Wake up mate ffs. 

Well how can cunts use it to have a dig at him then? 

[Brian Fantana 28,894]

2 minutes ago, graeme_4 said:

Well how can cunts use it to have a dig at him then? 

Havent seen that tbh. 

[graeme_4 34,615]

14 minutes ago, Tenerife Bear said:

We could debate all night whether results are important or not. You don't think they are, i think they most certainly are. We are breeding losers. Kids not only not good enough for the first team but whom don't appreciate or understand how important it is to win. Quite indicative of youth football in Scotland as a whole actually, possibly the only country in Europe where results are not recorded for kids matches and kids are not allowed to be competitive until they are teenagers. It's a joke. We are a country of perennial losers. Results at provincial clubs can be irrelevant, that is fine but at Rangers and Celtic, reults at every level are paramount. We should be bringing through boys who know how to run through brick walls to get a win or that know how to be cute enough to get that winning goal. 

Almost 2 years and we have seen nothing at all suggest there is any pathway or that he is willing to give kids a chance. 

20 would be 2, 3, sometimes 4 years later than other clubs. 20 isn't a youth anymore or a kid in fact. Players at 20 should already have a full season or two behind them as part of a first team squad. 

5 years is laughable. Think Billy Gilmour is going to hang about for 5 years playing with weans before the Magic Hat thinks he's good enough to come off the bench every now and then? Or Liam Burt? Or Roberts? McCrorie? Not a chance. 

We have too much dross blocking this mythical pathway. Imagine being a good wee player and watching shite like Dodoo coming in, watching Holt and Halliday playing every week, watching Danny Wilson, do you think our kids watch our first team and dream of one day being as good as them? Lol Young McCrorie or Lyon watching Kiernan and Tavernier and dreaming of being that good one day? C'mon ffs. 

 

Good post. I'm out with the mrs so will look at this more when home. But he's not had 2 years, he's been in the door 18 months and had to rebuild almost all of the first team footballing side.

Any cunt can run through a brick wall. We need ability. Its actually your attitude that holds back development, and ultimately why we are always outclassed at international level. 

I'd love to know what 16 years olds are breaking into top first teams. Not many that I've seen. 

I don't doubt that exceptional talents like Gilmour will get there - but for every Gilmour there's a Charlie Telfer (who McCoist was slaughtered for not playing) - and where is he now... 

 

[writingranger 1,417]

I'm assuming that posting on here is a viable alternative to suicide judging from the meltdown going on. It was never, ever realistic to expect a challenge in our first season without buying a team and even then both Celtic and Aberdeen (to a lesser extent) had experience and momentum. Yes, Celtic have been incredibly consistent this season and it's that consistency that accounts for the gap We also had to buy a lot of players, bed them in and adjust to a way of playing in front of supporters who just expect them to turn up and win. It doesn't happen that way. This team is being built from the ground up based on a very exciting style of play. Once we have players that can play at that level, then we'll see just how good a manager Warburton is.

[K.A.I 36,183]

2 minutes ago, writingranger said:

I'm assuming that posting on here is a viable alternative to suicide judging from the meltdown going on. It was never, ever realistic to expect a challenge in our first season without buying a team and even then both Celtic and Aberdeen (to a lesser extent) had experience and momentum. Yes, Celtic have been incredibly consistent this season and it's that consistency that accounts for the gap We also had to buy a lot of players, bed them in and adjust to a way of playing in front of supporters who just expect them to turn up and win. It doesn't happen that way. This team is being built from the ground up based on a very exciting style of play. Once we have players that can play at that level, then we'll see just how good a manager Warburton is.

It doesn't account for a 22point gap half way through the season 

thats down to us equally Celtics good start 

[Orange Persson 548]

There is this constant talk of us losing goals in an amateurish way. Individual mistakes lead to many many goals every week, by every team in every league at all levels.  I mean, if we had a defence that some fans seem to expect............we would already be there

  It is only that some mistakes are highlighted in otherwise good displays and by a couple of individuals.   tims scored 3 goals against Man City in last 2 games. 3 against us in last 2 games.  Our defence is so bad?  

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, Orange Persson said:

There is this constant talk of us losing goals in an amateurish way. Individual mistakes lead to many many goals every week, by every team in every league at all levels.  I mean, if we had a defence that some fans seem to expect............we would already be there

  It is only that some mistakes are highlighted in otherwise good displays and by a couple of individuals.   tims scored 3 goals against Man City in last 2 games. 3 against us in last 2 games.  Our defence is so bad?  

Our defence is only be away from home. At home it's just as good as any in the country.

[Tenerife Bear 1,748]

56 minutes ago, graeme_4 said:

Good post. I'm out with the mrs so will look at this more when home. But he's not had 2 years, he's been in the door 18 months and had to rebuild almost all of the first team footballing side.

Any cunt can run through a brick wall. We need ability. Its actually your attitude that holds back development, and ultimately why we are always outclassed at international level. 

I'd love to know what 16 years olds are breaking into top first teams. Not many that I've seen. 

I don't doubt that exceptional talents like Gilmour will get there - but for every Gilmour there's a Charlie Telfer (who McCoist was slaughtered for not playing) - and where is he now... 

 

Almost 2 years i said mate. 18 months is almost 2 years. Mre than enough to make some sort of stamp. So far he has brainwashed our youth into believing results don't matter, binned a whole load of them and lied about there being a pathway to the first team. Loaning those 3 kids last year and ignoring our own boys was a disgrace as well. 

Any cunt can't run through brick walls though, we've seen that plenty of times ourselves. 

Ability is useless if the kid doesn't have desire or a hunger to win or even know how to win. All the flicks and tricks in the world are pointless if the kid doesn't care if he wins or loses. My attitude doesn't hold anyone back. I do quite well at what i do at my respective level thank you. We are outclassed at international level because of our inferiority complex and dreadful coaching. You just have to look at our national team set up.  It is embarrassing. Headed by a clown who knows nothing about the game, managed by another clown who's been sacked more times than most and assisted by another sack specialist who spent his first press conference at one club talking about how much he really wanted another job. Oh, and after losing one of his assistants who also had numerous sackings under his belt, he appoints another dumpling who has also specialised in being sacked. From Vogts to Burley to Levein to Strachan, it's been one failure after another due to dreadful decision making at the very highest level. The ones to suffer are the players, those at the bottom of the chain. As it always is. Scottish football is embarrassing, not because our kids are not good enough but because those who are supposed to coach, train, and aid our kids are completely fucking useless. This country loses countless good players to social alternatives when they hit a certain age and nothing is done to protect or help them. It's too easy just to say, ach, they weren't good enough. It's nonsense. 

There are loads of examples scattered all over the game. You don't have to look far to find examples. Our very own Tom Walsh made his debut at 16! Farmed our so we could suffer Nathan fucking Oduwa. John Fleck was 16. Barrie McKay was 16. Derek Johnstone was 16 as we all know. I could go on and on. Exeter recently gave a first team debut to a 15 year old. Juventus are blooding 16 year olds. Milans keeper made his first team debut at 16. Mason Bennett at Derby was 15 on his debut. Karamako will make his Celtic debut as soon as he is legally old enough.  

That last bit i do agree with. 

[Tenerife Bear 1,748]

28 minutes ago, Tenerife Bear said:

 

[writingranger 1,417]

1 hour ago, K.A.I said:

It doesn't account for a 22point gap half way through the season 

thats down to us equally Celtics good start 

you have a point, but we are second in the league.