The Old days

[BoltonLoyal 2]

How about a poll on who believes in the image of Rangers as it always has been (e.g. Protestant, Unionist etc) or those who are more modernistic in their approach (e.g. A football club only)

Don't jump down my throat cos i might not have worded it correctly, it just seems there is a split between the 2 camps with the way the comments on lots of different threads return to the subject of old and new attitudes.

[Frankie 505]

I don't think we need a poll mate.

Some people believe differently from others. We should be able to respect that without slagging each other off.

[yellowcross 5]

the new days dudes...!

"You smell that? Do you smell that? Nivea, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of nivea on match day in the morning."

you dont know what you missed, the old support was the best ever.

minstral, i'm only kidding around mate, its a friday and all that, of course there was more atmosphere back in the 70s/80s/90s when I was a lad etc.

:beer2:

your lucky you are only a young man, wish i was young instead of heading for the old coffin box.

minstral, we're all going the same way mate, but have no fear, real bears don't die they just hibernate.

[Gaffbear 4,174]

It used to be we'd get a great atmosphere against the Sheep,Hibs and Hearts now it's deadly quiet unless something controversial happens.

In my opinion i think season ticket holders and supporters clubs should be asked whether standing areas should be brought back ,i for 1 would vote yes.

There should be no bans on any songs ,chants or flags unless they involve offensive slogans but they should be changed and the song/chant remains.

I remember my first game being against Motherwell at Ibrox with over 60,000 there and the noise was incredible and this was 1976....People standing ,jumping,swaying bouncing and singing....come half time you were usually 20 feet from where you started.

Right up until it was seasted i stood in the enclosure and imo it was the worst thing they done to Ibrox.

We all look starry eyed at the "good old days" when we really are starry eyed about being younger again but when it comes to football i think the days when you stood and sang and bounced together was far better.

the younger fans were brought up with success in the 90's and with Burgers,Pakora,comfort non drinking and now non smoking.The game now has moved away from the working class man's sport that alot of us grew up with and i think that's a shame...

Bring back the enclosure and let the guys bounce and sing again.

[minstral 5,375]

It used to be we'd get a great atmosphere against the Sheep,Hibs and Hearts now it's deadly quiet unless something controversial happens.

In my opinion i think season ticket holders and supporters clubs should be asked whether standing areas should be brought back ,i for 1 would vote yes.

There should be no bans on any songs ,chants or flags unless they involve offensive slogans but they should be changed and the song/chant remains.

I remember my first game being against Motherwell at Ibrox with over 60,000 there and the noise was incredible and this was 1976....People standing ,jumping,swaying bouncing and singing....come half time you were usually 20 feet from where you started.

Right up until it was seasted i stood in the enclosure and imo it was the worst thing they done to Ibrox.

We all look starry eyed at the "good old days" when we really are starry eyed about being younger again but when it comes to football i think the days when you stood and sang and bounced together was far better.

the younger fans were brought up with success in the 90's and with Burgers,Pakora,comfort non drinking and now non smoking.The game now has moved away from the working class man's sport that alot of us grew up with and i think that's a shame...

Bring back the enclosure and let the guys bounce and sing again.

gaffbear you have got me laughing as you are spot on you would be at the back of the crowd watching the game, and when rangers scored you would end up down the front as the crowd would be dancing all round the place, then people pissing in beer cans or bottles, and god help you if you were down the front when we played the tims and they scored against us, the bottles would be thrown like grenades from the back of the crowd, those were the days.

[yellowcross 5]

then people pissing in beer cans or bottles, and god help you if you were down the front when we played the tims and they scored against us, the bottles would be thrown like grenades from the back of the crowd, those were the days.

peeing in bottles and chucking them over each others heads - those were the days - wow - sounds like some leather s&m club in new york.

there's nought as queer as the older fan.

:pipehorse:

[minstral 5,375]

then people pissing in beer cans or bottles, and god help you if you were down the front when we played the tims and they scored against us, the bottles would be thrown like grenades from the back of the crowd, those were the days.

peeing in bottles and chucking them over each others heads - those were the days - wow - sounds like some leather s&m club in new york.

there's nought as queer as the older fan.

:pipehorse:

we had fans that would take no shit and were scared of nobody,any bear in trouble would always get help as united we would stand.

[Ibroxblue 131]

There were some pretty poor attendances back in the "Good Old Days". Our average home league attendance in 1981/82 was 16,399.

[minstral 5,375]

There were some pretty poor attendances back in the "Good Old Days". Our average home league attendance in 1981/82 was 16,399.

i am talking about 20 years before that when we had a fantastic support, and your right about our average support at that time, then when we started winning and on our way to nine in a row, all the glory hunters and the do gooders started to claim that they have always loved the club.

[Ibroxblue 131]

There were some pretty poor attendances back in the "Good Old Days". Our average home league attendance in 1981/82 was 16,399.

i am talking about 20 years before that when we had a fantastic support, and your right about our average support at that time, then when we started winning and on our way to nine in a row, all the glory hunters and the do gooders started to claim that they have always loved the club.

Go back to 65/6 and we had 15,000 at home to Motherwell and 12,000 at home to Clyde. But let's say we had a much higher average in the 60s. Where did all those great supporters go to between then and the early 80s?

[Gaffbear 4,174]

There were some pretty poor attendances back in the "Good Old Days". Our average home league attendance in 1981/82 was 16,399.

i am talking about 20 years before that when we had a fantastic support, and your right about our average support at that time, then when we started winning and on our way to nine in a row, all the glory hunters and the do gooders started to claim that they have always loved the club.

Go back to 65/6 and we had 15,000 at home to Motherwell and 12,000 at home to Clyde. But let's say we had a much higher average in the 60s. Where did all those great supporters go to between then and the early 80s?

What about all the fans who appeared once Souness took over.

1981 we had a poor poor side,the country was in recession,3million unemplyed "officially"Aberdeen,Sellic and Dundee Utd were above and it was the worst winter since 1963.Plus in 1981 we only had 3 stands for part of the season.

I agree wi Minstral wi the fact the Bears stood up for each other and fought for each other..now it's see who runs the fastest.

[Ibroxblue 131]

There were some pretty poor attendances back in the "Good Old Days". Our average home league attendance in 1981/82 was 16,399.

i am talking about 20 years before that when we had a fantastic support, and your right about our average support at that time, then when we started winning and on our way to nine in a row, all the glory hunters and the do gooders started to claim that they have always loved the club.

Go back to 65/6 and we had 15,000 at home to Motherwell and 12,000 at home to Clyde. But let's say we had a much higher average in the 60s. Where did all those great supporters go to between then and the early 80s?

What about all the fans who appeared once Souness took over.

A lot of the increase in average attendances is due to the advent of the "season ticket culture". You need a season ticket to see the Old Firm games. So you get a season ticket. Once you've got a season ticket you may as well go to the other games, which loads of people didn't bother with before (take 65/6 again - 76,000 watch us beat Celtic, next home league game 20,000).

And the supporters who disappeared between the 60s and the early 80s? Glory-hunters?

[minstral 5,375]

There were some pretty poor attendances back in the "Good Old Days". Our average home league attendance in 1981/82 was 16,399.

i am talking about 20 years before that when we had a fantastic support, and your right about our average support at that time, then when we started winning and on our way to nine in a row, all the glory hunters and the do gooders started to claim that they have always loved the club.

Go back to 65/6 and we had 15,000 at home to Motherwell and 12,000 at home to Clyde. But let's say we had a much higher average in the 60s. Where did all those great supporters go to between then and the early 80s?

What about all the fans who appeared once Souness took over.

A lot of the increase in average attendances is due to the advent of the "season ticket culture". You need a season ticket to see the Old Firm games. So you get a season ticket. Once you've got a season ticket you may as well go to the other games, which loads of people didn't bother with before (take 65/6 again - 76,000 watch us beat Celtic, next home league game 20,000).

And the supporters who disappeared between the 60s and the early 80s? Glory-hunters?

you can put as much spin as you like on it, and deflect as much as you like the older support was diffrent class and did we not have crowds of over 100 thousand and i mind we played wolves and had over 80 thousand, and what about when we beat st mirren 2- 0 watched by a crowd of 126 thousand fans. also thousands of fans on the tarmac at renfrew airport to welcome back our team after a tour of russia 1962-63 i could go on and on but have to go out soon, the older bears were a far better support, as the biggest crowd you now see is at the subway, and thats is with 10 min of the game left.

[Ibroxblue 131]

There were some pretty poor attendances back in the "Good Old Days". Our average home league attendance in 1981/82 was 16,399.

i am talking about 20 years before that when we had a fantastic support, and your right about our average support at that time, then when we started winning and on our way to nine in a row, all the glory hunters and the do gooders started to claim that they have always loved the club.

Go back to 65/6 and we had 15,000 at home to Motherwell and 12,000 at home to Clyde. But let's say we had a much higher average in the 60s. Where did all those great supporters go to between then and the early 80s?

What about all the fans who appeared once Souness took over.

A lot of the increase in average attendances is due to the advent of the "season ticket culture". You need a season ticket to see the Old Firm games. So you get a season ticket. Once you've got a season ticket you may as well go to the other games, which loads of people didn't bother with before (take 65/6 again - 76,000 watch us beat Celtic, next home league game 20,000).

And the supporters who disappeared between the 60s and the early 80s? Glory-hunters?

you can put as much spin as you like on it, and deflect as much as you like

Yes you can.

Where did they all go between the Celtic game and the next home game? Where did they all go between the 60s and the early 80s?

[minstral 5,375]

There were some pretty poor attendances back in the "Good Old Days". Our average home league attendance in 1981/82 was 16,399.

i am talking about 20 years before that when we had a fantastic support, and your right about our average support at that time, then when we started winning and on our way to nine in a row, all the glory hunters and the do gooders started to claim that they have always loved the club.

Go back to 65/6 and we had 15,000 at home to Motherwell and 12,000 at home to Clyde. But let's say we had a much higher average in the 60s. Where did all those great supporters go to between then and the early 80s?

What about all the fans who appeared once Souness took over.

A lot of the increase in average attendances is due to the advent of the "season ticket culture". You need a season ticket to see the Old Firm games. So you get a season ticket. Once you've got a season ticket you may as well go to the other games, which loads of people didn't bother with before (take 65/6 again - 76,000 watch us beat Celtic, next home league game 20,000).

And the supporters who disappeared between the 60s and the early 80s? Glory-hunters?

you can put as much spin as you like on it, and deflect as much as you like

Yes you can.

Where did they all go between the Celtic game and the next home game? Where did they all go between the 60s and the early 80s?

you have already deflected, as the thread was about bears sticking by one another, and not like the new age support who would sell their granny for a shilling if the media told them to do it, as i say i have not got time but i will be back later, i wonder when you jumped on board was it the glory years.

[Ibroxblue 131]

There were some pretty poor attendances back in the "Good Old Days". Our average home league attendance in 1981/82 was 16,399.

i am talking about 20 years before that when we had a fantastic support, and your right about our average support at that time, then when we started winning and on our way to nine in a row, all the glory hunters and the do gooders started to claim that they have always loved the club.

Go back to 65/6 and we had 15,000 at home to Motherwell and 12,000 at home to Clyde. But let's say we had a much higher average in the 60s. Where did all those great supporters go to between then and the early 80s?

What about all the fans who appeared once Souness took over.

A lot of the increase in average attendances is due to the advent of the "season ticket culture". You need a season ticket to see the Old Firm games. So you get a season ticket. Once you've got a season ticket you may as well go to the other games, which loads of people didn't bother with before (take 65/6 again - 76,000 watch us beat Celtic, next home league game 20,000).

And the supporters who disappeared between the 60s and the early 80s? Glory-hunters?

you can put as much spin as you like on it, and deflect as much as you like

Yes you can.

Where did they all go between the Celtic game and the next home game? Where did they all go between the 60s and the early 80s?

you have already deflected, as the thread was about bears sticking by one another, and not like the new age support who would sell their granny for a shilling if the media told them to do it, as i say i have not got time but i will be back later, i wonder when you jumped on board was it the glory years.

You're way off beam there.

And I'm not deflecting at all. The subject is "The Old Days". I'm asking some questions about the old days. Still waiting for some answers.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

There were some pretty poor attendances back in the "Good Old Days". Our average home league attendance in 1981/82 was 16,399.

i am talking about 20 years before that when we had a fantastic support, and your right about our average support at that time, then when we started winning and on our way to nine in a row, all the glory hunters and the do gooders started to claim that they have always loved the club.

Go back to 65/6 and we had 15,000 at home to Motherwell and 12,000 at home to Clyde. But let's say we had a much higher average in the 60s. Where did all those great supporters go to between then and the early 80s?

Why did you shift from averages to the attendance at selected games?

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Where did they all go between the Celtic game and the next home game? Where did they all go between the 60s and the early 80s?

Ib what information are you looking for here?

Maybe they were all at Homebase, who knows?

If you've got some kind of point, please make it before the paint dries.

[Ibroxblue 131]

There were some pretty poor attendances back in the "Good Old Days". Our average home league attendance in 1981/82 was 16,399.

i am talking about 20 years before that when we had a fantastic support, and your right about our average support at that time, then when we started winning and on our way to nine in a row, all the glory hunters and the do gooders started to claim that they have always loved the club.

Go back to 65/6 and we had 15,000 at home to Motherwell and 12,000 at home to Clyde. But let's say we had a much higher average in the 60s. Where did all those great supporters go to between then and the early 80s?

Why did you shift from averages to the attendance at selected games?

Because I don't have the averages for the earlier period.

[Ibroxblue 131]

Where did they all go between the Celtic game and the next home game? Where did they all go between the 60s and the early 80s?

Ib what information are you looking for here?

Maybe they were all at Homebase, who knows?

If you've got some kind of point, please make it before the paint dries.

If you have no serious answer or attempted answer to my questions, fair enough. We'll see if anyone else does.

[Frankie 505]

Well it's hardly rocket science.

Rangers - like any club really - would lose many fans whenever the success dries up for a period of time. That doesn't mean the core of the support or the general ambience of the 'older days' are not agreeable or comparable to the high average attendances of the last 20 years - which of course is directly associated with better facilities, a higher standard of living and a generally successful club (if slightly inconsistent recently).

For what it's worth I don't think anyone is implying our older support was perfect, constantly present in huge numbers and/or more loyal - just that they may compare favorably with the present day in many ways. When one considers the library that we see on most match-days at home (despite a very high average attendance), I think I'm inclined to believe that point of view.

Note: For reference I'm only 30 and only went to my first game in 1985 so can't appreciate what Minstral et al say about it.

[Ibroxblue 131]

Well it's hardly rocket science.

Rangers - like any club really - would lose many fans whenever the success dries up for a period of time. That doesn't mean the core of the support or the general ambience of the 'older days' are not agreeable or comparable to the high average attendances of the last 20 years - which of course is directly associated with better facilities, a higher standard of living and a generally successful club (if slightly inconsistent recently).

For what it's worth I don't think anyone is implying our older support was perfect, constantly present in huge numbers and/or more loyal - just that they may compare favorably with the present day in many ways. When one considers the library that we see on most match-days at home (despite a very high average attendance), I think I'm inclined to believe that point of view.

Note: For reference I'm only 30 and only went to my first game in 1985 so can't appreciate what Minstral et al say about it.

As you say, the lack of atmosphere nowadays is probably due to there being different conditions in place: all-seater stadium, boredom with the SPL, etc. Schemes like the Blue Order are an attempt to get some of the old conditions back, i.e. people who want to get together and sing can do it (easier on the terracing). It's not about the old fans being better than the present-day fans.

The world changes. Booze on the terracing, The Billy Boys and rivers of pish are not coming back. We have to look forward....

[Gaffbear 4,174]

Bring back a standing area.

The lack of atmosphere is alot to do with boredom at games...i believe that when i started going to Rangers games in the 70's the people who were there really wanted to be there and Rangers were a major outlet for them and a major social event...It was a day out.

Now i think alot of people only go cos they have a season book and it's either that or shopping wi the missus or watching the weans so sit there and moan if someone stands up or it's too cold then buggers off with 25 minutes to go after turning up late.

Tp these people ..give your book to someone who is passionate about Rangers and who will show it .

To Murray..Ballot the fans on the reinstating of a standing area.

[minstral 5,375]

There were some pretty poor attendances back in the "Good Old Days". Our average home league attendance in 1981/82 was 16,399.

i am talking about 20 years before that when we had a fantastic support, and your right about our average support at that time, then when we started winning and on our way to nine in a row, all the glory hunters and the do gooders started to claim that they have always loved the club.

Go back to 65/6 and we had 15,000 at home to Motherwell and 12,000 at home to Clyde. But let's say we had a much higher average in the 60s. Where did all those great supporters go to between then and the early 80s?

What about all the fans who appeared once Souness took over.

A lot of the increase in average attendances is due to the advent of the "season ticket culture". You need a season ticket to see the Old Firm games. So you get a season ticket. Once you've got a season ticket you may as well go to the other games, which loads of people didn't bother with before (take 65/6 again - 76,000 watch us beat Celtic, next home league game 20,000).

And the supporters who disappeared between the 60s and the early 80s? Glory-hunters?

you can put as much spin as you like on it, and deflect as much as you like

Yes you can.

Where did they all go between the Celtic game and the next home game? Where did they all go between the 60s and the early 80s?

you have already deflected, as the thread was about bears sticking by one another, and not like the new age support who would sell their granny for a shilling if the media told them to do it, as i say i have not got time but i will be back later, i wonder when you jumped on board was it the glory years.

You're way off beam there.

And I'm not deflecting at all. The subject is "The Old Days". I'm asking some questions about the old days. Still waiting for some answers.

you seem to have chosen selected games, you dont mention 1959-60 celtic game 65000 or hearts game 72000 and hearts again 45000, or clyde game 40000.

what about 1961-62 st mirren game 172,000 ormotherwell game 84,000 aberdeen games 57,000 and 41,000 or hearts game 88,000.

everyone can be selective, plus people had to stuggle to get money to support our club,which included selling stuff walking to ibrox as they only had money to get into the ground, pawning stuff to get mone, to see the club that they loved. also i cant imagine you doing that sort of stuff to support our team, and the reason you jumped on to attendances was that you know our older support were a different breed which many of our younger fans are helping to carry on, all the true blue members of this forum will make sure that the old bears will never be forgotten, as for myself i have been there for the whole journey the bad times and good times, as were the rest of my family,thats because we loved and have given everything to our club.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Where did they all go between the Celtic game and the next home game? Where did they all go between the 60s and the early 80s?

Ib what information are you looking for here?

Maybe they were all at Homebase, who knows?

If you've got some kind of point, please make it before the paint dries.

If you have no serious answer or attempted answer to my questions, fair enough. We'll see if anyone else does.

Well it's the wrong question if what you wanted to know was why people didn't go to games, as opposed to where they went instead.

Personally I think it's too big a question, the timescale includes a number of distinctive periods for the Club. To analyse them properly we'd need a lot of data.

One relevant point (was it you who made it?) is the ST effect - letting us kid ourselves on that there are 50,000+ at every home game these days.

I don't have figures handy but I think footie attendances probably generally fell during this period, and we were amongst the first to reverse that trend.

In the late 60s celtic took over dominance of Scottish Football in a way hardly seen in living memory - the 2nd of their NIAR was the first time in half a century that we had gone 3 seasons without being champions, that wee fluke in portugal in 1967, us suddenly hardly getting our hands on a trophy between the Kai Cup Final and The Waddell/ Wallace era mid 70s (isn't it odd that our European triumph came in a period we couldn't win a thing at home?), all in all the stuffing was knocked out of the bears.

But (and this is why I said we need more data), we regularly turned up in huge numbers, I remember 70,000+ at Ibrox for a LC game against Hibs, 80,000+ in Europe, 60-80,000 for Cup finals. And boy on days like that it was fantastic, everything minstral talks about and more, some of my happiest memories.

After the The Waddell/ Wallace years the Club looked to be in terminal decline (although we all knew we'd come back) but again I think that was probably another period when attendances were low generally.

I have abiding memories of sitting of the terracing at some shitty game on a freezing winter night, around a fire we started to keep warm (Kenny Scott has heart attack).

Like the dhims (they always copy us) we had our 'boycott' when things were going badly. We just didn't have the PR machine to call it that.