The day I met the "bigots"

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

I watched them at a distance?.filing into their theatre?those commonly referred to as ?bigots? My first impression was one of surprise?. because the ?bigots? donned themselves in colours and flags I was eminently familiar with?Saltires?.Union Flags?Red Hand Flags?the flags of my nation.

Their procession into their theatre was only interrupted as they stood?.respectfully?in front of a statue commerating their fallen brethren?heads bowed they paid silent homage to the fateful 66. The respect they showed was far more appropriate than that of one of their accusers who years ago had sought to seek humour at the statue commemorating their fallen.

And as I entered their theatre I was I was treated to their choruses. As they glorified their country, their sovereign, their history and the battles which forged and shaped all of the former? I confess I searched hard to find out just what the problem was.

Perhaps it was the tingle at the back of neck which caused a wave of patriotism to wash over me,,,,which momentarily reminded who I was?..where I had come from?for a brief moment I was reminded of all I was meant, and had once aspired, to be?.yes that was it?that?s what clouded my judgment of the ?Bigots?

For one thing I would say about the ?bigots? they are without compromise, they are not swayed by fashionable or knee jerk politics?.in fact you could say the things they value are those timeless principles?.faith?honour?loyalty?steadfastness. Some commentators have referred to them as stubborn?.my impression was that they were resolute?unflinching.

And another chorus started?..this one praising the people of the Northern territories across the water?.saluting their steadfastness and refusal to submit to the terrorist bomb and bullet. These were the type of choruses their accusers had found ?distasteful?. Apparently it is ?distasteful? to sing songs about a war which shaped our country nearly 300 hundred years ago. The strange thing is?.its apparently okay to sing about a battle 700 years ago?..and even replace our country?s national anthem with it.

And amidst all these ?distasteful? songs about Ulster?.I have to admit to casting my eye beyond the ?Bigots? theatre?.across the shores of our country and across the sea?to the northlands of Ireland.

And there a saw a people?.a people feeling isolated?abandoned and confused. A people vilified by those who are ignorant?.and yet a people triumphed as a ?Faithful Tribe? by those who have taken the time to investigate, explore and seek out the truth.

For the like the ?bigots? they are without compromise?.their crimes appear to be faith?loyalty and steadfastness before their God?their Sovereign and their country. Their accusers are those who sought to rule them by the bomb and the bullet?.and when the bomb and the bullet could break not their spirit..faith loyalty or steadfastness?then the accusers sought to undermine them by all means political.

It was then that I realised what the ?bigots? were doing. They were sending a message of support to a forgotten and isolated people?.their songs were extending a hand across the sea.?a hand of friendship?letting them know they were not forgotten?not abandoned. They were honouring the promises their country had given centuries before. It seems there are still some within our country who feel it important to honour promises given,

But back to theatre. The songs stopped?and neither man, woman or child spoke. For a minute within the theatre there was a respectful silence, impeccably observed. Again battles from history were on the agenda as thousands stood remembering the sacrifice of thousands. The husbands?sons?brothers?who never returned home, and who perished under the flags so many of the ?bigots? donned?.were no longer just a cross at Flanders?.the Somme?Ypres. For their memories were alive and their ultimate sacrifice cherished and respected.

And as the heroes took to the field with poppies embroidered into their jerseys?I realised this was a club and support for whom the past was not just important?it was vital?.it shaped the people they were and everything they stood for and believed in. And what they stood for and what they both believed and aspired to be?was good.

And as I streamed out of the theatre at the end?it dawned on me that if I even managed to achieve half of what I truly aspire to be as a man?then I too would be a ?bigot?

RANGERS FOREVER

[Dado 334]

Manticore posted this a while ago.

A romantic notion, not sure that I entirely agree with it.

[J_RFC87 761]

Yea i remember Manticore posting it also.

and like Dado, im not sure on it either.

[Guest Manticore]

Manticore posted this a while ago.

A romantic notion, not sure that I entirely agree with it.

I think it he might be the author.

Not sure, but I'm pretty sure I credited him with it at the time.

I think it's brilliant.

If you don't agree with it say why, this is the 'Rangers FC Discussion Area' after all.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Manticore posted this a while ago.

A romantic notion, not sure that I entirely agree with it.

I think it he might be the author.

Not sure, but I'm pretty sure I credited him with it at the time.

I think it's brilliant.

If you don't agree with it say why, this is the 'Rangers FC Discussion Area' after all.

I am the author Manticore....but I will forgive you your apparent breach of copyright

Like you I would be keen to hear the disagreements.

[Guest Manticore]

I am the author Manticore....but I will forgive you your apparent breach of copyright

Like you I would be keen to hear the disagreements.

Did I not PM you on FF to ask?

Christ my brain's turning to mush.

[Gaffbear 4,104]

I watched them at a distance?.filing into their theatre?those commonly referred to as ?bigots? My first impression was one of surprise?. because the ?bigots? donned themselves in colours and flags I was eminently familiar with?Saltires?.Union Flags?Red Hand Flags?the flags of my nation.

Their procession into their theatre was only interrupted as they stood?.respectfully?in front of a statue commerating their fallen brethren?heads bowed they paid silent homage to the fateful 66. The respect they showed was far more appropriate than that of one of their accusers who years ago had sought to seek humour at the statue commemorating their fallen.

And as I entered their theatre I was I was treated to their choruses. As they glorified their country, their sovereign, their history and the battles which forged and shaped all of the former? I confess I searched hard to find out just what the problem was.

Perhaps it was the tingle at the back of neck which caused a wave of patriotism to wash over me,,,,which momentarily reminded who I was?..where I had come from?for a brief moment I was reminded of all I was meant, and had once aspired, to be?.yes that was it?that?s what clouded my judgment of the ?Bigots?

For one thing I would say about the ?bigots? they are without compromise, they are not swayed by fashionable or knee jerk politics?.in fact you could say the things they value are those timeless principles?.faith?honour?loyalty?steadfastness. Some commentators have referred to them as stubborn?.my impression was that they were resolute?unflinching.

And another chorus started?..this one praising the people of the Northern territories across the water?.saluting their steadfastness and refusal to submit to the terrorist bomb and bullet. These were the type of choruses their accusers had found ?distasteful?. Apparently it is ?distasteful? to sing songs about a war which shaped our country nearly 300 hundred years ago. The strange thing is?.its apparently okay to sing about a battle 700 years ago?..and even replace our country?s national anthem with it.

And amidst all these ?distasteful? songs about Ulster?.I have to admit to casting my eye beyond the ?Bigots? theatre?.across the shores of our country and across the sea?to the northlands of Ireland.

And there a saw a people?.a people feeling isolated?abandoned and confused. A people vilified by those who are ignorant?.and yet a people triumphed as a ?Faithful Tribe? by those who have taken the time to investigate, explore and seek out the truth.

For the like the ?bigots? they are without compromise?.their crimes appear to be faith?loyalty and steadfastness before their God?their Sovereign and their country. Their accusers are those who sought to rule them by the bomb and the bullet?.and when the bomb and the bullet could break not their spirit..faith loyalty or steadfastness?then the accusers sought to undermine them by all means political.

It was then that I realised what the ?bigots? were doing. They were sending a message of support to a forgotten and isolated people?.their songs were extending a hand across the sea.?a hand of friendship?letting them know they were not forgotten?not abandoned. They were honouring the promises their country had given centuries before. It seems there are still some within our country who feel it important to honour promises given,

But back to theatre. The songs stopped?and neither man, woman or child spoke. For a minute within the theatre there was a respectful silence, impeccably observed. Again battles from history were on the agenda as thousands stood remembering the sacrifice of thousands. The husbands?sons?brothers?who never returned home, and who perished under the flags so many of the ?bigots? donned?.were no longer just a cross at Flanders?.the Somme?Ypres. For their memories were alive and their ultimate sacrifice cherished and respected.

And as the heroes took to the field with poppies embroidered into their jerseys?I realised this was a club and support for whom the past was not just important?it was vital?.it shaped the people they were and everything they stood for and believed in. And what they stood for and what they both believed and aspired to be?was good.

And as I streamed out of the theatre at the end?it dawned on me that if I even managed to achieve half of what I truly aspire to be as a man?then I too would be a ?bigot?

RANGERS FOREVER

BRILLIANT !!!!!!!!

WATP

[Wreckedroy 33]

History as seen through Orange-tinted glasses. Check the REAL history books before you spout this romantic and misguided trash.

[Gaffbear 4,104]

What part of it is untrue???????

[minstral 5,375]

History as seen through Orange-tinted glasses. Check the REAL history books before you spout this romantic and misguided trash.

please explain

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

History as seen through Orange-tinted glasses. Check the REAL history books before you spout this romantic and misguided trash.

Go on Wreckedroy....the floor is yours.

If you are going to criticise at least have the balls to justify your comments.....not the slate and run away routine.

[polar bear 0]

History as seen through Orange-tinted glasses.  Check the REAL history books before you spout this romantic and misguided trash.

please explain

I wonder about some of the newer posters? misguided trash sounds about right.

[Big Blue Ben 1]

Love it.

WATP

[BlueIsTheColour 35]

To be honest you can only really be completely for or completely against this article. There is no midle ground. IMO, it is not a biased way of seeing the OO but the way that someone who didn't know of all the crititcism and all the bad blood would see. I made the point when Manticore first posted this article that the OO were to blame for not standing up for themselves when they were being slaughtered in the press and by other religious leaders. Their reputation has been tarnished because they wouldn't fight their corner and that is why most people in Scotland (and the world) now see the OO in the way the press has portrayed them.

[Guest Manticore]

History as seen through Orange-tinted glasses. Check the REAL history books before you spout this romantic and misguided trash.

Come on mate that?s no way for one bear to address another.

Anyway I take it you can supply references for these

REAL history books

?

And if you can, feel free to explain how they prove any facts in the original post to be wrong, or how they show any of the opinions to be at fault.

Or is it that you just don?t like it?

You?d rather we admitted that it?s bigoted or sectarian to support our cousins in Ulster?

Or to support Queen and Country?

Or to be in the Orange Order?

I?m not asking if you support these, only whether in your view it is bigoted or sectarian to do so.

The original poster obviously put a great deal of work and thought into the it, it deserves a better reply than you gave it, no matter how much you disagree.

[Guest Manticore]

I made the point when Manticore first posted this article that the OO were to blame for not standing up for themselves when they were being slaughtered in the press and by other religious leaders. Their reputation has been tarnished because they wouldn't fight their corner and that is why most people in Scotland (and the world) now see the OO in the way the press has portrayed them.

I agree with that, and you could say the same thing about RFC.

Do you not think we should try to get the truth out there instead of accepting the abuse thrown at us?

And anyway agree or disagree with the piece, it deserves a better response than Wreckedroy's.

[Wreckedroy 33]

And another chorus started?..this one praising the people of the Northern territories across the water?.saluting their steadfastness and refusal to submit to the terrorist bomb and bullet. These were the type of choruses their accusers had found ?distasteful?. Apparently it is ?distasteful? to sing songs about a war which shaped our country nearly 300 hundred years ago. The strange thing is?.its apparently okay to sing about a battle 700 years ago?..and even replace our country?s national anthem with it.

And amidst all these ?distasteful? songs about Ulster?.I have to admit to casting my eye beyond the ?Bigots? theatre?.across the shores of our country and across the sea?to the northlands of Ireland.

And there a saw a people?.a people feeling isolated?abandoned and confused. A people vilified by those who are ignorant?.and yet a people triumphed as a ?Faithful Tribe? by those who have taken the time to investigate, explore and seek out the truth.

For the like the ?bigots? they are without compromise?.their crimes appear to be faith?loyalty and steadfastness before their God?their Sovereign and their country. Their accusers are those who sought to rule them by the bomb and the bullet?.and when the bomb and the bullet could break not their spirit..faith loyalty or steadfastness?then the accusers sought to undermine them by all means political.

It was then that I realised what the ?bigots? were doing. They were sending a message of support to a forgotten and isolated people?.their songs were extending a hand across the sea.?a hand of friendship?letting them know they were not forgotten?not abandoned. They were honouring the promises their country had given centuries before. It seems there are still some within our country who feel it important to honour promises given,

The only point I will make at this time is to question just how many of the people singing songs about Ulster, The Boyne et al are actually "sending a message of support to a forgotten and isolated people", rather than just joining in with what are basically tribal anthems? Not nearly as many as you think! At least 90% of the so-called fans who sing these songs have no real idea of the actual events of 1688 to 1690......other than the romantic tripe taught to them by religious bigots.

Try reading any history book NOT written or edited by a member of the Orange Lodge if you want to find out the true facts.

I will be starting another thread in the Non-Football parts of this forum in the near future, with links to videos, books etc. for anyone who wishes to learn the real facts.

[blueben_d 40]

As they glorified their country, their sovereign, their history and the battles which forged and shaped all of the former? I confess I searched hard to find out just what the problem was

Perhaps the FTP brigade were absent that day

[Albahighlander 0]

I think there is a middle ground on this one.

I have no difficulty with our club or inded our support recognising and valuing our traditions and background.

There is a very clear tradition of protestantism, and there is a very clear connection with and affinity to Northern Ireland. We shoul;d not be ashamed or embarassed about this.

That is why I have no difficulty with songs like the sASH.

Whhere I do have a problem, and this is why I say this is perhaps the middle ground, is when any song refers to someone else's tradition or culture. That is why I was always opposed to The Billy Boys, that is why I am opposed to any songs which make freference to them in this context.

Celebrating our traditions does not mean we have to denigrate theirs, no0 matter how distatsteful some of their culture is.

I always remember a game during McLeish's time. I think it was a cold December, the game was dead and dull, nothing was happening, and all of a sudden this fantastic rendition of ther Sash just suddenly emerged from the Copland - it was magnificent, it was defiant, it was proud but it was most certainloynot bigotted. Like the account above it made the hairs on the back of myneck stand.

There is a middle ground.

[BlueIsTheColour 35]

The only point I will make at this time is to question just how many of the people singing songs about Ulster, The Boyne et al are actually "sending a message of support to a forgotten and isolated people", rather than just joining in with what are basically tribal anthems? Not nearly as many as you think! At least 90% of the so-called fans who sing these songs have no real idea of the actual events of 1688 to 1690......other than the romantic tripe taught to them by religious bigots.

Try reading any history book NOT written or edited by a member of the Orange Lodge if you want to find out the true facts.

I will be starting another thread in the Non-Football parts of this forum in the near future, with links to videos, books etc. for anyone who wishes to learn the real facts.

Firstly beofre i start, i am in no way affiliated with the OO so do not brand me as a "religious bigot" for what i will say.

I know the "real" facts of what happened at the time of Prince William and his cusades. And believe it or not i was told the exact same story by the "bigots" as i was when i read the non-biased history books.

Let me ask you Wreckedroy, have you ever come into contact with the OO? Do you know what their beliefs are, their rules and their practices? Or do you just go by what is said about them in the press. They are a pretty secretive organisation so that is why they have taken stick from all angles and because of their secretism will not come out and defend their organisation and show what really happens.

And also, did you read about the OO in history books too? Because the ones i have read about them are very far off the mark from the real goings-on inside the OO.

[blueben_d 40]

The only point I will make at this time is to question just how many of the people singing songs about Ulster, The Boyne et al are actually "sending a message of support to a forgotten and isolated people", rather than just joining in with what are basically tribal anthems? Not nearly as many as you think! At least 90% of the so-called fans who sing these songs have no real idea of the actual events of 1688 to 1690......other than the romantic tripe taught to them by religious bigots.

Try reading any history book NOT written or edited by a member of the Orange Lodge if you want to find out the true facts.

I will be starting another thread in the Non-Football parts of this forum in the near future, with links to videos, books etc. for anyone who wishes to learn the real facts.

Firstly beofre i start, i am in no way affiliated with the OO so do not brand me as a "religious bigot" for what i will say.

I know the "real" facts of what happened at the time of Prince William and his cusades. And believe it or not i was told the exact same story by the "bigots" as i was when i read the non-biased history books.

Let me ask you Wreckedroy, have you ever come into contact with the OO? Do you know what their beliefs are, their rules and their practices? Or do you just go by what is said about them in the press. They are a pretty secretive organisation so that is why they have taken stick from all angles and because of their secretism will not come out and defend their organisation and show what really happens.

And also, did you read about the OO in history books too? Because the ones i have read about them are very far off the mark from the real goings-on inside the OO.

Im not saying for a second that you are wrong, you are more than likely correct

But... if some books say one thing some books say another.

whos to say which ones actually portray the truth? if any for that matter

[Wreckedroy 33]

I think there is a middle ground on this one.

I have no difficulty with our club or inded our support recognising and valuing our traditions and background.

There is a very clear tradition of protestantism, and there is a very clear connection with and affinity to Northern Ireland. We shoul;d not be ashamed or embarassed about this.

That is why I have no difficulty with songs like the sASH.

Whhere I do have a problem, and this is why I say this is perhaps the middle ground, is when any song refers to someone else's tradition or culture. That is why I was always opposed to The Billy Boys, that is why I am opposed to any songs which make freference to them in this context.

Celebrating our traditions does not mean we have to denigrate theirs, no0 matter how distatsteful some of their culture is.

I always remember a game during McLeish's time. I think it was a cold December, the game was dead and dull, nothing was happening, and all of a sudden this fantastic rendition of ther Sash just suddenly emerged from the Copland - it was magnificent, it was defiant, it was proud but it was most certainloynot bigotted. Like the account above it made the hairs on the back of myneck stand.

There is a middle ground.

I agree Alba, there IS a middle ground. But as a direct descendant of George Wishart, one of the 1st Protestant Martyrs and a founding father of the Protestant Faith in Scotland, I find it extremely distasteful that some of the fans of our great club can strive to keep us mired in the dark days of sectarianism and bigotry that this Forum has declared itself to be staunchly AGAINST!

[BlueIsTheColour 35]

Im not saying for a second that you are wrong, you are more than likely correct

But... if some books say one thing some books say another.

whos to say which ones actually portray the truth? if any for that matter

I understand where you are coming from here. Wreckedroy was referring to books that were written by people who were not Protestant or Catholic. But you are right, maybe they were portraying the events of 1688-90 in their own way and spinning the facts for their cause. Who knows?

Nobody will know the real truth unless the have read the records written by the men who charted what happened in battles. And even they could be biased so you can't win really.

[Wreckedroy 33]

Im not saying for a second that you are wrong, you are more than likely correct

But... if some books say one thing some books say another.

whos to say which ones actually portray the truth? if any for that matter

I understand where you are coming from here. Wreckedroy was referring to books that were written by people who were not Protestant or Catholic. But you are right, maybe they were portraying the events of 1688-90 in their own way and spinning the facts for their cause. Who knows?

Nobody will know the real truth unless the have read the records written by the men who charted what happened in battles. And even they could be biased so you can't win really.

Good point. History is always written by the victors!

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Okay Wrecked...

My first question to you.....where in my article is there any mention of the OO ?